View Poll Results: Is it normal for AC and Microwave to trip circuit breaker?
Yes, its just how it is. 43 57.33%
No, the dealer is full of it. 32 42.67%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-25-2015, 11:26 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Cypressloser View Post
you could install a Volt/Amp meter in line right before the main cable enters the control panel, this way you can always monitor the load on your system and learn quickly how to balance power usage.
Amazon.com: DROKĀ® Digital Current Voltage Multimeter AC 100-300V 100A Voltage Amperage Meter, AC Volt Amp Testing Gauge Power Monitor LCD Dual Display Voltage Measuring Current Sensing Resistors with Current Transformer CT: Home Improvement

Edit: The link above is only an example.
This is a great recommendation for anyone that does not have an on-board display like the Progressive Industries power and surge protection. I personally use the the display on my Progressive Industries often. I have it near my load center so when I turn on circuit breaker for the water heater elect. I can see the immediate load it places on my power supply.
I think of the volt/amp display like that of a fuel gauge; how much I've used and how much I have left (amperage wise).
It is also important to know (as stated before) that adding up the amps of all the appliances doesn't mean that is what it will actually draw. The amps listed on appliances is at the rated voltage also listed on that label. Supply volts that higher or lower than the rated (typically 115 volts) has a direct influence on the amp draw. The multi-meter in your link is the tool that will provide that information.

Here are some other tips:
- Circuit breakers don't protect you on voltage, they are only there to protect against over-current (amp draw that exceeds the circuit breaker).
- Circuit breakers, appliances and surge & power protection don't care what the source of the power is (generator, campground power pedestal, or the 14 gauge wire extension cord run from your house). Things go wrong when the power can't be maintained within +/-10% of listed supply volts (that's with 11.5 volts +/- for 115 volt).
- Measure amps and volts as you turn on appliances. You might be surprised to see that supply volts may actually drop when you turn on your A/C. This is especially true when on generator supply.

Bobby
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Old 07-25-2015, 11:37 AM   #82
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If I add up the fuses in my converter I get 120 amps. More than twice the 55 amp rating of the converter. That is not taking in consideration the 30 amp 12 volt converter (charger) or the 110 VAC load. I am sure the 12 VDC fuses are rated high but even so this makes no sense to me. Going to send them an e-mail and will post here what they tell me.

Jim
Oldtool, the load center (including the 12 volt DC side) is arrange to be properly fused to protect that circuit. The load center is not designed to handle the combined maximum load from all circuits.
It's the same with you circuit breakers. Each circuit is protected with a 15 amp or a 20 amp circuit breaker. Add them up and it is well over the 30 amp main breaker.
Again, they are just sized to protect that circuit.

Bobby
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Old 07-25-2015, 12:45 PM   #83
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HONDA IS perhaps the best, but they say that 3000 is the lowest level rated for an AC. Even with the GREAT AND MIGHTY Honda/ Watch that line voltage. I use one of these on top of other safeguards/ AC Voltage Meter - Direcsource Ltd JL-010204-01 - Voltage Monitors - Camping World
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Old 07-25-2015, 12:52 PM   #84
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Oldtool, the load center (including the 12 volt DC side) is arrange to be properly fused to protect that circuit. The load center is not designed to handle the combined maximum load from all circuits.
It's the same with you circuit breakers. Each circuit is protected with a 15 amp or a 20 amp circuit breaker. Add them up and it is well over the 30 amp main breaker.
Again, they are just sized to protect that circuit.

Bobby
Bobby,

I was an industrial electrician in a steel mill for 20 years. Then as a building engineer for 22 years. I understand that the fuses and breakers are protecting individual circuits.

I also know that the total of these individual circuits should not exceed what the panel is rated at (not the same as the main breakers). What happens if these circuits are all drawing their max, 80% of what they are rated at? Circuit breakers will heat up and trip at an 80% load. I have 5 110 VAC breakers plus a 30 amp main breaker. The circuits individual breakers add up to 80 amps, 2.7X what the main is rated at. They are rated to protect things at a start up load. I personally do not think the breakers or fuses are rated properly but that is another topic. I will concede the beakers are close though. However it would be easy to blow the 30 amp main.

Jim
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Old 07-25-2015, 01:06 PM   #85
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oldtool2 My response was based on using regular power hook as this thread started out as. Not on using a Gen. Later RJD
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Old 07-25-2015, 02:03 PM   #86
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oldtool2 My response was based on using regular power hook as this thread started out as. Not on using a Gen. Later RJD
Sense you did not use a quote you made it hard to find what you were referring to. Using shorepower you might not have a problem. I have used the MW to heat my coffee with the AC running. Don't remember if the compressor kicked on while the MW was running or not though. If that happened it might kick the breaker, if not then probably wouldn't.


Why the bold lettering, you yelling at me, LOL?

Jim
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Old 07-25-2015, 03:27 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by oldtool2 View Post
Bobby,



I also know that the total of these individual circuits should not exceed what the panel is rated at (not the same as the main breakers). What happens if these circuits are all drawing their max, 80% of what they are rated at? Circuit breakers will heat up and trip at an 80% load. I have 5 110 VAC breakers plus a 30 amp main breaker. The circuits individual breakers add up to 80 amps, 2.7X what the main is rated at. They are rated to protect things at a start up load. I personally do not think the breakers or fuses are rated properly but that is another topic. I will concede the beakers are close though. However it would be easy to blow the 30 amp main.

Jim
Jim, I think the concern you have is totaling your fuse amp sizes exceeds your panels total amp capcity - right?
Pretty much every load center (breaker/fuse panel, AC or DC) is designed with a calculated maximum load. That determines the amp size of the load center and the main breaker.
Downline of the main breaker you will have others breakers of various sizes but no single breaker should exceed the rating of the main breaker. In the attached image is a load center from a 200 amp service panel. As you can see, the total of all the breakers far exceed the 200 amp main breaker. The electrical engineers calculated the load design to be within the 60 - 80 maximum total load (200 amps).

Your vehicle is the same. Pull the fuse panel and total the amps of all the fuses. You will see it is well above the amp capacity of not only the alternator/battery but also the main wiring.

Your plant was designed on the same principle. You might have a 6000 amp breaker but all the circuit breakers downline amp totals likely exceed the 6000 amp.

I have a 32k feed coming in my plant that is stepped down to 480 volts and then running through a distribution panel with 3) 4000 amp breakers. I have around 60 other load center panels fed from those 3) 4000 amp breakers and I know the total of all those panels circuit breakers far exceed 4000 amps. However, there isn't a single load center with a circuit breaker any larger than 600 amps.

Bobby
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Old 07-25-2015, 05:05 PM   #88
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Jim, I think the concern you have is totaling your fuse amp sizes exceeds your panels total amp capcity - right?
Pretty much every load center (breaker/fuse panel, AC or DC) is designed with a calculated maximum load. That determines the amp size of the load center and the main breaker.
Downline of the main breaker you will have others breakers of various sizes but no single breaker should exceed the rating of the main breaker. In the attached image is a load center from a 200 amp service panel. As you can see, the total of all the breakers far exceed the 200 amp main breaker. The electrical engineers calculated the load design to be within the 60 - 80 maximum total load (200 amps).

Your vehicle is the same. Pull the fuse panel and total the amps of all the fuses. You will see it is well above the amp capacity of not only the alternator/battery but also the main wiring.

Your plant was designed on the same principle. You might have a 6000 amp breaker but all the circuit breakers downline amp totals likely exceed the 6000 amp.

I have a 32k feed coming in my plant that is stepped down to 480 volts and then running through a distribution panel with 3) 4000 amp breakers. I have around 60 other load center panels fed from those 3) 4000 amp breakers and I know the total of all those panels circuit breakers far exceed 4000 amps. However, there isn't a single load center with a circuit breaker any larger than 600 amps.

Bobby
Bobby,

I am not so much concerned as I am curious. I know for a fact that what you are stating is true. When you, or I, look at the panel in my trailer we think it is a 55 amp panel. Even the manufacture leads us to believe this in their literature. We know this is not true if we read all the literatre they have posted. It is a 30 amp VAC panel. The converter is capable of putting out more than 30 amps though. Is it capable of 55 VDC amps, is that where they get te 55 from? That is what I suspect. I do know it can put out 30 DC amps charge rate. That is why there are 30 amp fuses in the converter and a foot away from the batteries.

Now assuming this converter can produce 55 DC amps that leaves us with 25 amps to use in the fuse block. I don't want my load in the trailer to ever exceed that if I am right. If I want to add something I now know what I have to work with, 25 amps. But no where does the manufacture tell us this.

The other thing I would like to know is what is the amperage draw when the converter is putting out a 30 amp charge, or a 15 amp charge, and so forth. I don't see any fuse or AC breaker that is for the converter. I am assuming it is protected somewhere but I don't see it and don't see it mentioned anywhere in the literature. I would guess it is a fuse on the line in feeding the converter itself.

Jim
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Old 07-25-2015, 07:58 PM   #89
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Hello All!

Working through some painful stuff with picking up my new RV.

On our first trip, we noticed that when we are using the AC and the Microwave a circuit breaker trips. I asked the dealer about this and was told that it was normal and that I couldn't use both of them together.

Is this true? It just doesn't make sense to me.

2016 Sunseeker 3050SF

Thanks all,

Bill
Hello Bill. Interesting thread you created and a lot of good information. Bottom line, I tried our unit today, the Forester 3171DS and we can run both a/c and microwave together on shore power with no problems. We almost bought the 3050, but went for the bunk model, so we could entertain the grandkids. Hope all else is going well with your MH.

PS: We do run the water heater on gas.
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Old 07-25-2015, 11:16 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by oldtool2 View Post
Bobby,

When you, or I, look at the panel in my trailer we think it is a 55 amp panel. Even the manufacture leads us to believe this in their literature. We know this is not true if we read all the literatre they have posted. It is a 30 amp VAC panel. The converter is capable of putting out more than 30 amps though. Is it capable of 55 VDC amps, is that where they get te 55 from? That is what I suspect. I do know it can put out 30 DC amps charge rate. That is why there are 30 amp fuses in the converter and a foot away from the batteries.

Now assuming this converter can produce 55 DC amps that leaves us with 25 amps to use in the fuse block. I don't want my load in the trailer to ever exceed that if I am right. If I want to add something I now know what I have to work with, 25 amps. But no where does the manufacture tell us this.

The other thing I would like to know is what is the amperage draw when the converter is putting out a 30 amp charge, or a 15 amp charge, and so forth. I don't see any fuse or AC breaker that is for the converter. I am assuming it is protected somewhere but I don't see it and don't see it mentioned anywhere in the literature. I would guess it is a fuse on the line in feeding the converter itself.

Jim
Jim, converter models have varying ranges of DC amp output that is dependent on the components inside the converter - primarily the transformer. But the fascinating thing is the input current ranges 500 watts (for a 30 amp DC output) to 20 amps (for a 80 amp DC output). The "beefier" the transformer, the more DC load work it can do.
Think of automotive battery chargers; you can boost start with a 100+ DC amps from a 20 AC amp outlet.

Progressive Dynamics has a good FAQ area on how converters work: FAQs About Power Converters/Chargers.

Bobby
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