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Old 03-20-2013, 09:56 PM   #41
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Thank you for your response. I wish I knew that I would have bought a 2007! I see that you say you're a factory rep - what is your take on people posting about this poor workmanship and generally lack of care and tidyness on the production line / dust / debris etc being left in the campers? Is that something forest river cares about? Since I joined here I have read about this more than once.
Understanding that there is a detailed checklist the dealer must sign off on, I'd say the dealer is the party who cleans the coach. That's the way it's been for the Jayco, Crossroads, and FR I've owned. The Crossroads by far the cleanest from the factory. With that said, at delivery all three were nearly spotless.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:02 PM   #42
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Let me be perfectly clear. I could care less about how clean a unit comes in. That's up to the dealers to cleanup if they want. I don't care how much dust, wood chips and screws are in it from the factory. This thread is helping us determine a different potential issue with the entry door. I appreciate bclemens participating in these forums, and we need his support to get some answers. My point is I'm not signing the dotted line if the door frame has to come out.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:53 PM   #43
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I would pass. thats just me. enabling is a powerful way to reinforce bad behavior -- in this case, overlooking qc and having you come for your walk-through. Are you just supposed to say, oh NP!
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:17 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Jim Scofield View Post
Thank you for your response. I wish I knew that I would have bought a 2007! I see that you say you're a factory rep - what is your take on people posting about this poor workmanship and generally lack of care and tidyness on the production line / dust / debris etc being left in the campers? Is that something forest river cares about? Since I joined here I have read about this more than once.
I will respond, even though I have responded to this same type of question before.

I guess I get a little miffed when people "imply" that there is a lack of care. As I have said before and others have commented as well...the majority of people come here for solutions to problems, so you see a higher rate of complaints than you do "my unit is perfect". We are building 75 Class C's per week right now...so I don't know that there is some "general" lack of care or tidiness for a few units with problems. I can only speak for our Class C division (a very small fraction of this 3 billion dollar company) but we care a lot about how our product is built and perceived. That is part of the reason that I am here. I can only hope to be as helpful as Herk7769 has been (over 10,000 posts) but I don't think anyone would say "He doesn't care". Now I may only have 1000 posts, "but I'm drinking milk", and I don't think anyone that I have helped would say "bclemens doesn't care". At the end of the day...these are still built by human hands. Humans make mistakes/errors. I forward ALL issues I see here to the production manager, sales manager and engineering. They also care. We create checklists to make sure stuff like this doesn't happen...but we also depend on our dealer as a second line of defense.

I really appreciate this forum for multiple reasons. It gives me a opportunity to get real world feedback very quickly. Address small problems before they become mountains and I think we actually do get a lot of people that step forward and say "I love my unit". Which is good to hear from time to time.

As for the door. If someone wants to pass on a unit because of the door frame that is their prerogative. I will say, that door is one of the easiest things to replace. It's not like a house with a nailed in frame. This is a pre-hung all in one door that is not apart of the structure. The rough opening is aluminum framed, then the door gets screwed to that frame. Pull the perimeter screws and that door can be replaced in under 10 minutes. It's an easy swap, no change in structure or anything. The seals are all rubber so no broken seals to worry about. Now for BigJohn, the paint complicates that a bit but I'm sure our guys have a simple solution.

Please don't take this as a "well we build a lot so its excusable or its our dealers fault" if we make a mistake, we look for ways for US to fix it and do better the next time. I just hate to see our "caring" questioned...even as the question is posed to a factory rep on a 3rd party forum (we have no financial interest or official involvement in this forum).

Sorry for my rant, all I want to do is help and learn.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:25 AM   #45
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Nice comment BC .
"CHEERS"

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Old 03-21-2013, 11:38 AM   #46
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Well, I didn't read every response, except the owners. Did I miss something? I don't recall the word "caring" coming up. To me, if you're paying this much money, "caring" doesn't enter into it. What enters into it, is the product worth the money and is the quality control there to prove it? That's up to each owner on inspection. It's just me, I would pass if it came to the lot in that condition. Not my decision, obviously. Also, the issue isn't are you out here "caring" about your division and this customer. I think you are. Perhaps you should take it back to the plant that they should be more "proactive" rather than "reactive" when it comes to inspecting campers through production and before shipping. This is not one instance. Personally, at these prices, I think one is too many. That's just me. What people tolerate is their business. I know what I would or would not tolerate.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:53 AM   #47
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Well, I didn't read every response, except the owners. Did I miss something? I don't recall the word "caring" coming up. To me, if you're paying this much money, "caring" doesn't enter into it. What enters into it, is the product worth the money and is the quality control there to prove it? That's up to each owner on inspection. It's just me, I would pass if it came to the lot in that condition. Not my decision, obviously. Also, the issue isn't are you out here "caring" about your division and this customer. I think you are. Perhaps you should take it back to the plant that they should be more "proactive" rather than "reactive" when it comes to inspecting campers through production and before shipping. This is not one instance. Personally, at these prices, I think one is too many. That's just me. What people tolerate is their business. I know what I would or would not tolerate.
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The post I quoted (not Original Poster) asked me to comment on whether or not we "cared", so that is what I responded to. What was being discussed was minor issues, door frame and "tidiness" of hidden areas (below drawers, slide outs, etc). As I also stated, we DO take it back to the plant so that we can be more proactive. It would help to read all the posts since this one has wandered a few times.
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:44 PM   #48
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The post I quoted (not Original Poster) asked me to comment on whether or not we "cared", so that is what I responded to. What was being discussed was minor issues, door frame and "tidiness" of hidden areas (below drawers, slide outs, etc). As I also stated, we DO take it back to the plant so that we can be more proactive. It would help to read all the posts since this one has wandered a few times.

Thank you I really do appreciate your input - i agree it's definitely a great opportunity to have someone here who is in the factory.

I wonder after reading more of people concerns (I see them as concerns though you clearly take them more personally) - I can see people being upset finding garbage and construction debris in their brand new camper. It does seem to be (from reading ) what I would consider to be more than an isolated instance. Though only a few people (compared to your number of units produced) complain, I believe statistically they would actually represent a high enough level of complaints (as a sample set of owners) to take it seriously.

I am happy to hear you take these complaints back to the factory. Hopefully it is just a "few bad apples" on the assembly line who don't clean up after themselves - I am sure a dilgent manager knowing he should look for this can now spot those bad apples and solve the problem!
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Old 03-21-2013, 04:09 PM   #49
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Ok. It's down to crunch time. The only way I can go on with this purchase is get something from FR identifying the door being defective. The dealer says it holds a dollar bill in while closed, so its fine. Clearly it isn't, but how can I buy it in the morning and have it taken care of if the dealer doesn't agree. We have waited a long time for this, but just want it identified and taken care of.
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Old 03-21-2013, 04:11 PM   #50
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Don't get me wrong, I don't take the concerns personally...other than I personally like to see them corrected.

I probably get too worked up when there are broad sweeping statements made about lack of workmanship and untidiness. I take great pride in what we build here and I know 99% of the factory does as well. You always have the few guys that "it's just a job".

And we take all complaints seriously, statistically high or not.
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