Sunseeker drivers side tail/top/turn light anomaly

[RvBill3]

Originally Posted by tmhyer

Looks great rvbill! How did you search for them on Amazon?

Bargman 84 LED

http://www.amazon.com/Bargman-47-84-...bargman+84+led

[tmhyer]

Thanks again. Im ordering these, although I agree I shouldnt have to be replacing bulbs like I have been on a brand new rv

[budblack]

We have a 3012 3170. It came with only one house battery and we've neither added another or complained to Forest River because two are now standard. We upgraded our brake, tail, and reverse lights with LEDs. I could have easily waterproofed the factory fixtures which leaked and caused bulbs to not work. We've also added LED interior lights, a full length bathroom door mirror, a Sani-con sewage macerator, a rear roof vent cover and exhaust fan, an ice maker, and an inverter among other things, all of which would have been nice as standard equipment. While all the upgrades some folks claim on this forum should have been standard equipment would be nice as standard, if they were the price of our Sunseekers would increase by several thousand dollars. That second battery probably raised the price of a 3170. Come on, folks. Take some initiative and do a little self-help. At times when reading posts on this forum complaining about items which are not included as standard equipment or easily fixed minor problems I wonder why Brian Clemens doesn't throw up his hands and leave this forum.

Pardon the rant, but I am amazed at what some people complain about.

[tmhyer]

Budblack, we're complaining about tailights leaking and blowing bulbs non stop on brand new rv's. No one would accept that on a new car. Why would we on something that costs twice as much?

[bclemens]

Non-stop might be a bit excessive. I would also, just like to make my normal disclaimer...most people are coming on here because they have issues. There are thousands more that do not.

I have a rental account running 400 Sunseekers in a fleet...so we watch very closely for repeat issues. This is not one of those.

Having said that...I take all complaints very seriously and it is something I will look into.

As for standard, not standard. That Bargman light is widely used. The "add on" train, sometimes has no brakes. Before long, we've priced ourselves out of the market.

Just look for The Winnebago Minnie, Minnie Winnie (the old, not the recently released), or the winnebago Outlook. You won't find them as they have met that same fate.

[Wildkats66]

Well I installed new bulbs and sealed the lens with vaseline. I was really surprised that the light assembly had no "o-ring" so to speak around the lens. I guess that's a first for me. So let the rain come and we will see what happens.

I have thought about LEDs but just can't afford it right now.

[bgilly]

Originally Posted by RvBill3

The upgrade backup light that Bargman sells is all white. They include a stick on reflector to put somewhere on the back to conform to DOT requirements. HOWEVER, the red lights have a reflector in the center of them. So if you are using the red LEDs, then the all white backup light is not an issue. You will meet DOT requirements with the red LEDs.

Purchasing the backup light (LED) with reflector around it is very expensive compared to buying the all-white upgrade.

Correct. I bought the fixtures rather than the LED upgrade. One fixture with the 2 red LED signal/brake and the 1 incandescent reverse was cheaper than 2 red LED upgrade: http://www.sportsrecreationmall.com/cqnt3026.html

There is a compliant LED white reverse with the red reflector trim but I didn't like it because it is not symmetrical in design - having a chrome trim around the outside. Reverse is not that important to me to have LED.
http://www.bargman.com/content/products.aspx?lvl=3&parentid=8201&catID=8220&part= 47-84-414

Bargman LED catalog: http://www.bargman.com/content/products.aspx?lvl=2&parentid=8201&catID=8220&part= 0

I did the fixture upgrade for two reasons;1) the leaking lens 2) to reduce my lighting load. I mentioned in another post that I had my rear/side camera acting up and it was due to a poorly conducting bulb.

Originally Posted by bclemens

I've got engineering talking to Bargman. That is how they come and they say they work just fine. If that's their answer...I'll just pick up my toys and play elsewhere.

Brian, there is indeed a seal design issue with the Bargman 84/85 incandescent fixtures. It's not from install so no responsibility to FR.
I removed my lenses and cleaned inside the blub area in January. When I got my coach back from warranty work in May and I still had the RVS camera/monitor problem, I suspected something with the brake/parking lights since when I stepped on the brakes, the monitor would change views.
I removed the lenses again and one of the brake/signal bulbs was acting weird. A poor connection and seemingly shorting between the two positive prongs of the bulb socket. Cleaned it up and the camera and monitor works perfect.
After our trip through New Mexico/Arizona, I removed the lenses again. The insides were dusted with red dust (no red dirt in my area).
Bargman needs some sort of rubber seal around each of the lenses. I assume they don't do this so hot air can escape.
I'm all upgraded to a pair of 47-84-009 and I am very pleased. I would be happy to send you my removed fixtures if that will help you, the engineers or Bargman in investigating if there is a problem.

Sorry for the long post.

Bobby

[bclemens]

I've got engineering already on it. As you said, its not an install issue...that is how Bargman builds them. We have calls into Bargman.

[bgilly]

Originally Posted by bclemens

I've got engineering already on it. As you said, its not an install issue...that is how Bargman builds them. We have calls into Bargman.

Yes, I figured you have all the fixtures you could want but those are new. But then all those FR rentals out there and you all have more evidence a fixture design(?) problem.

I will point out that FR takes great measures to weatherproof the install. The weatherstrip tape did a great job of keeping the dust and water out even though the back lip of the Bargman fixture isn't solid. Fortunately I had some of the same to use on the new replacement fixtures.

Bobby

[TomG]

I received and installed my new LED replacement lights.........what an amazing increase in performance, and well worth the price for a fix to a poor original product design by Bargman. Now that we have all been chastised by "budblack" for bringing the problem to the forefront so that it can be addressed, I'll just do what I'm told and consider it another upgrade like the many improvements I have willingly added.

I understand about add-on price creep for making options standard equipment. I don't think that's the issue here. Even the lowest price unit must have rear lights that work adequately.....that's not an "option". I'm glad that our concerns are being addressed by Brian ..........so future customers won't have to address this issue.

[RvBill3]

Added the LED upgrade backup lights today. What a difference! It will be possible to back into a campsite at night without need for other lighting. (Plus they look great!)





2012 Forest River Sunseeker 2300 Chevy

[bgilly]

Originally Posted by RvBill3

Added the LED upgrade backup lights today. What a difference! It will be possible to back into a campsite at night without need for other lighting. (Plus they look great!)
Attachment 56985




2012 Forest River Sunseeker 2300 Chevy

You might still check inside the lights from time to time.
I bought the entire fixture which came with 2 LED brake/tail lights and one incandescent backup installed in the base.
A day later after a night of heavy Louisiana dew, I noticed water collected in the lens of the backup light lens. I removed the lens and caught what the problem is.

The black base has an outer lip and an inner lip and the lens cover fits between the two (I guess I should have taken a picture for illustration). Water gathers just under the outer lip, rolls to the lens edge then falls in the lens channel overcoming the inner lip.
Basically this entire recess that the lens fits into needs a gasket. I was not able to find a large enough o-ring but I recall that silicone doesn't "like" the vinyl material of the black base. I removed all the lights and lenses, filled the recess with a black silicone, allowed it to cure and re-installed the lights and lenses. The lens edge didn't go in as far because of the silicone but I did see it compress the silicone. Once all the lights and lenses were installed I used a towel to rub off the silicone waste.
It worked perfect. No other occurrences with water even with some of out heavy thunderstorms lately.
I mention this even though you now have all LED including the backup, but the water still gets inside behind the LED fixture. Not inside is but in the recess for the fixture. Left unchecked it could migrate into the LED fixture.

[RvBill3]

All of these upgrade fixtures are sealed units with a pigtail that plugs into the original bulb socket. Water cannot get into the LED fixture itself. I suppose water could get behind the fixture and if it pooled behind the fixture could eventually short out the socket. However, these fit very tightly and I see no evidence of any water intrusion. They have been through a driving rain on the road, and while parked, as well as high pressure spray from washing the MH. (I did not have any water problems with the previous incandescent lens either--just wanted the look and brightness of LEDs. The brightness is amazing. Much more visible, much safer.)


2012 Forest River Sunseeker 2300 Chevy

[bgilly]

Originally Posted by RvBill3

All of these upgrade fixtures are sealed units with a pigtail that plugs into the original bulb socket. Water cannot get into the LED fixture itself.

The black block on the back of the LED fixture is not air/water tight but there would be bigger problems if the water gets that high inside the fixture.
You are lucky that you don't have the lens seal issue most of us have with the Bargman design.

[TomG]

I have had my new led lights in for about a week now. What an improvement! Since I am in FL (probably part of the problem) I thought I would take one of the top lights off to check for water. I found condensation on the surface of the light fixture! Part of my original problem was that the bulb base and the bulb receptical corroded badly. So....I took them all off and made sure they were dry and found that both top lights had condensation. So I put silicone around all the new lenses. Of course now I can't remove them, but I don't know what else to do, except hope for the best! I did put bulb grease on all of the metal contacts.

[bgilly]

Originally Posted by TomG

I have had my new led lights in for about a week now. What an improvement! Since I am in FL (probably part of the problem) I thought I would take one of the top lights off to check for water. I found condensation on the surface of the light fixture! Part of my original problem was that the bulb base and the bulb receptical corroded badly. So....I took them all off and made sure they were dry and found that both top lights had condensation. So I put silicone around all the new lenses. Of course now I can't remove them, but I don't know what else to do, except hope for the best! I did put bulb grease on all of the metal contacts.

Do as I did, fill the crevice that the lens goes into with silicone. Let it cure then re-install the lens. The lens will compress the silicone when you tighten down on the screws for the lens. Will photos of what I did with mine help?

Bobby

[TomG]

Thanks...........I thought about that and know what you mean, but I didn't know if I could remove the silicone if didn't work. I think the bead I applied on the outside can be pulled off.