Sunseeker quality control is nonexistent!

[bluesman46]

In April 2013 traded in our 2001 Jayco 26 ft motorhome for a brand spanking new 2013 31+ft Sunseeker with single slide. Had everything my wife and I and our aging cat needed and looked good to my eye.

Unfortunately, it was what I didn't see that day that has completely spoiled us on Forest River and the Sunseeker.

We are not casual users. We are also not beginners. We "live" in our motorhome 6-7 months a year and experience everything good and bad a motorhome brings to the table.

When you get beyond eye appeal our Sunseeker is a total, 100% disappointment. Absolutely no quality control on key operating systems.

Here are a few examples.

1. First trip out (last year) and 1500 miles from home we found ourselves facing a serious clogged double sink in the galley. (Had not washed a dish yet!) Tried everything from hot water to checking the roof vent etc. Even had an RV service, with ForestRiver permission, come to our site and work on the plumbing directly. They checked the traps etc and could find nothing wrong...however there was a definite ongoing "venting" issue that caused the slow water drainage out of either side of the kitchen sink. With FR permission they "cut pipe" at the suspect points pulling out the stove etc and working under the fridge. Snake would always find a blockage. Using a camera they found sawdust and other objects in the line in the rear part of the home where it connects to the gray tank. We were stuck...since we couldn't completely leave the home to have the plumbing completely redone! They helped the situation improve and we got through the season...draining slowly from the kitchen.

2. Also on the first trip...the carbon monoxide/propane detector malfunctioned daily and then died. In addition, all the clothes hangers in the bedroom fell off the ceiling of the wardrobes .....without anything hanging on them! There are a ton of other issues from drawers that are cockeyed to video cameras that refused to work...and assorted electrical gremlins.

3. Year two has been a repeat of year one with a host of other fit and finish type things. One in particular is so absurd that it actually made us laugh. Apparently our main coach TV had a pixel issue...so someone at FR got creative and painted the small spots on the screen with a magic marker.

I could go on but why bother. Paid a lot of money for the motorhome and would conclude it is worth considerably less. Would not recommend FR or a Sunseeker to anyone. Living with a bad decision...and have found the reason why some folks prefer paper plates.

Take care all!

[Witch Doctor]

Sorry to hear of your quality control problems. After 3 years I still get saw dust in the strangest areas. That's what happen when you do piece work and have to push out certain # a day or they stay until they reach that #.

[RamblerGuy]

Sorry to hear of your problems, but some coaches have more problems than others. Quality control should make them more consistent.

Our Sunseeker 3100 was built August, 2010. We've used it over 350 nights and 33,000 miles. We've had only a few problems and fortunately all were minor. Most I just fixed myself rather than take it to the dealer, who is only 10 miles away and is very good to work with.

[RSchleder]

As a 20 year long Quality Director in the electronics industry, my opinion is that while "quality control" is definitely an issue in the RV industry, the more serious issue is LACK of "quality workmanship" by the individual workers on the production line. Quality cannot be inspected into a product. Worker ownership in doing their job right, the first time and everytime is, and always will be, the key to manufacturing a high quality product. And yes, I totally agree, it is Managements job to set the culture and the environment that encourages, and allows, each worker to meet this expectation. It's this process that allows the "quality control" team to VERIFY that the product is initially built to the quality standards and not put them in a position to try to inspect quality into the product. The RV plants I've toured simply do not have a quality system at all, therefore, we get what ever they produce and some are barely decent while others are simply junk!

[bluesman46]

Good point on "quality workmanship" vs "quality control". I have, as I pointed out, experienced mind numbing examples. Under the fridge some one used scotch tape to tie off the electric connection. Anyone working on these things has to know when they are just going through the motions. Another good point on management's responsibility to set the culture to actually care about what someone is doing in the production process.

[MeepMeep]

Originally Posted by RSchleder

As a 20 year long Quality Director in the electronics industry, my opinion is that while "quality control" is definitely an issue in the RV industry, the more serious issue is LACK of "quality workmanship" by the individual workers on the production line. Quality cannot be inspected into a product. Worker ownership in doing their job right, the first time and everytime is, and always will be, the key to manufacturing a high quality product. And yes, I totally agree, it is Managements job to set the culture and the environment that encourages, and allows, each worker to meet this expectation. It's this process that allows the "quality control" team to VERIFY that the product is initially built to the quality standards and not put them in a position to try to inspect quality into the product. The RV plants I've toured simply do not have a quality system at all, therefore, we get what ever they produce and some are barely decent while others are simply junk!

X10! Unless the product is monitored throughout the production phase, there's no way that "quality control" can be added in at the end...calling a final inspection quality control is a fools errand. Having said that, our CC 38FL had a couple of minor issues after delivery which were taken care of promptly by our local dealership. There is no such thing as a perfect product..... It's the after sale service that is critical

[bluesman46]

When a company demands and expects quality builds, stands behind that, rewards those who follow it, and then inspects continually....quality will show. Apparently FR doesn't do that. Must say however, that our old Jayco gave us very little trouble.

Meanwhile I have another clogged double kitchen sink issue to tend too (and no nothing but water and liquid soap has gone down the drain!)

[ATVer]

I agree that the RV industry does not produce high quality units anywhere near that of the auto industry. However there is no foreign competition like what drove the auto industry. Also high quality usually means more cost. When I was shopping I found I could get a Sunseeker thousands less than a comparable Winny or Jayco so I expected I might have more need for rework.

If you can't or don't want to do your own repairs and reworks make sure you have a competent dealer and the checkbook, if not covered by warranty, to fix issues.

[RSchleder]

Originally Posted by ATVer

I agree that the RV industry does not produce high quality units anywhere near that of the auto industry. However there is no foreign competition like what drove the auto industry. Also high quality usually means more cost. When I was shopping I found I could get a Sunseeker thousands less than a comparable Winny or Jayco so I expected I might have more need for rework.

If you can't or don't want to do your own repairs and reworks make sure you have a competent dealer and the checkbook, if not covered by warranty, to fix issues.

It actually takes very little extra time for a worker to do their job correctly vs incorrectly. When you consider the cost of factory rework and dealer warranty repairs, quality workmanship actually saves a company money as each process step is performed only once. Factory rework and dealer warranty work is expensive as not only does the rework require redoing the previous work, the previous work must be undone before the repair can even start.
I do agree that if higher quality components (parts) are used by any manufacturer then the finished item will cost more due to the increased
price of the parts. Sometimes, however, this can be a good trade off as the lower warranty costs can offset a major portion of these increased component costs.
And the final question----how do you put a price/cost on consumer dissatisfaction?

[poppytoymaker]

I hope the Forester is assembled in a different plant.

[Witch Doctor]

The real problem with the dealers putting people off, is that they are paid by the factory a fraction of what we pay to have something repaired out of warranty. So who do you think the dealer is going to takecare of first? Everyone knows that they will do non warranty work first. Then you have the incompetent people who do not have training and it takes them even longer. Dealers do not make money on warranty work at all. But they will charge a person no matter how long it takes them, they can't do that to the factory.

[ATVer]

Originally Posted by poppytoymaker

I hope the Forester is assembled in a different plant.

Sorry, all class Cs, Sunseekers, Foresters, Lexingtons, and Soleras are made at the same facility by the same crews unless it changed last year.

[SkipnTerri]

We have now had our 2014 Forester 3051S for one year and hopefully have all the bugs out. Our advice to anyone buying one is to use it, use it, use it and get that warranty work done while you can. We had over 20 issues and finally got the last one (that we're aware of) resolved just two weeks ago. We had special ordered a Fantastic Fan which was not installed, huge staple protruded in the middle of the galley countertop, torn seal on the left door of the refrigerator, automatic levelers weren't calibrated, twisted vent hose partially detached from diffuser under refrigerator area preventing furnace air flow, several yards of excess cable causing the front TV to malfunction -- these are just a few!!! We've had several RVs through our 40 years together and this has been our worst experience. We did a lot of research before trading in our 2007 Georgetown XL (which we had few problems with) and like the floorplan of our Forester; however, we'd be skeptical to purchase another FR product.

[mattb]

Yeah, been all in and around our Roo, definitely slapped together. Truly a shame to carry the "Made in the USA" banner. We were looking at the Jayco offerings, salesman was very adamant about how much better they are than FR products. However, they are wanting mid 20's for a Jayflight 23MBH, a comparable layout 25BHS or 2504S is 16-17 around here. May not be apples to apples but it is the layout we are looking for in a TT. I can fix my own for a 8k savings.

Matt

[wana65stang]

SkipnTerri , I also have a 2014 3051s have you had any slide problems yet?

[ATVer]

I think FR overall is suffering from growing pains via acquisitions and from just another Class C manufacturer to number 1 in sales.

[Snowman9000]

When we ordered our 2300 this time last year, the plant was running all out. IIRC they build a Sunseeker in about a day, definitely less than two days. When I start poking around and fixing or improving things, and think about how fast a line worker had to assemble or install the particular item I am working on, it is at once amazing and distressing.

We've had teething pains but nothing big. I think FR uses good components, good design and engineering, and has good mass market build quality. Not a Lexus, but not a Yugo either.

[Witch Doctor]

Originally Posted by mattb

Yeah, been all in and around our Roo, definitely slapped together. Truly a shame to carry the "Made in the USA" banner. We were looking at the Jayco offerings, salesman was very adamant about how much better they are than FR products. However, they are wanting mid 20's for a Jayflight 23MBH, a comparable layout 25BHS or 2504S is 16-17 around here. May not be apples to apples but it is the layout we are looking for in a TT. I can fix my own for a 8k savings.

Matt

Jayco is a good unit had a different model but it still had the same kinda of problems, Jayco just has a better name recognition and are cashing in on it. Have to remember how FR grew, when all the other plants where closing down FR was gobbling them up. I think they are getting better now, and you get a good bang for the buck....

[SkipnTerri]

Originally Posted by jfrauts

SkipnTerri , I also have a 2014 3051s have you had any slide problems yet?

We haven't had any issues so far (have 12,500 mi on it) other than a little squeaky chatter. When the slide is all the way in, the front edge protrudes about 1/2" farther than the back and we took it to the service center to have it checked. They said it was the nature of the beast.

[ATVer]

Originally Posted by Snowman9000

When we ordered our 2300 this time last year, the plant was running all out. IIRC they build a Sunseeker in about a day, definitely less than two days. When I start poking around and fixing or improving things, and think about how fast a line worker had to assemble or install the particular item I am working on, it is at once amazing and distressing.

Agreed when I took a tour in 2012 the plant had a quota of 16 units per day. Basically the crew worked on piece work and went home when they had completed their quota. As I remember it looked like they had space for about 8 in-progress so some were done in a day.