WeBoost 4G-X install in 2014 3050

[Outlaw7]

Been sourcing all my parts and doing my research prior to a single hole being drilled.

Has anyone here had this installed yet? I'm doing a 4G Trucker antenna and permanently attaching to the roof with a aluminum base plate. I understand it's important to have long spacing between the exterior antenna, booster amp, and interior antenna to avoid oscillation from occurring.

My main concern is where, and how to run my cables through the roof, find a nearby 12 volt socket for power, then to discreetly run the interior antenna behind the wall, cabinets, etc. to a good location. I'd imagine I'm going to have good signal regardless, just want to optimize my install .

I don't do ' exposed wiring', as every mod I've done is always done the right way.

Just asking if someone knows what I'm to expect when I try running wire inside the ceiling or interior wall ( what framework is in there)

Without looking in the Rv now, I know I have a 12 volt socket behind the bedroom tv, one down low in the dinette ( wont use that one unless I mod it to face inward the cabinet and blank off the outer side. Stupid place to have one IMO )

Any professional opinions appreciated


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[Gidyupgo]

Hello Outlaw. Not an expert but have a pretty good idea of how to do this. We are at about the same place as you with our Max-Amp RV. There are some good videos and write-ups available. So far, we have picked up a piece of 36 x 48 galvanized tin from The Home Depot and cut it down to 28 x 28 to bond on the roof for a good ground plane. A step you will not need if your trucker antenna has a built in ground plane. As soon as it warms (19 here an hour South of Atlanta) we will do some tests to make sure we don't see oscillation with the outside ant on top at the back of the coach and the inside ant in the middle. Next, we want to make sure we get the boosted signal throughout the coach and adjust the ant locations until we do. Maximum Signal advertises that their design will do what we want. We plan to use 3M VHB tape to mount the roof plate and dicor the edges. The living room TV has 12v power and there is a row of adjacent cabinets that I can hide the outside ant cable in back to the fridge vent and up to the roof. Dicor dollops over the outside ant cable every 12" across the roof will keep it from flapping. The inside ant is about the size of a salt shaker and if the location met the signal test we did earlier will mount (Velcro) to the ceiling just outside the cabinet where the booster will mount.
Now, come on Sunhine!




Gary

[Rich.M]

Have you considered permanently mounting the booster unit and running a 14 gauge 12 volt Line from your power center and hard wiring with a switch? I have set up our Solera with the 4GM weboost. The antenna is mounted on an a painted aluminum cake pan at the back of the RV. The antenna lines is run over the roof then down the refer vent . I then drilled a hole from upper vent to upper closet wall next the refer and mounted booster to upper inside of closet. Power and pick up ant lines run down inside the back of closet and thru the bottom to utility space where water heater mounted. Ran a new 12 volt line from empty slot in fuse box. This line powers switches for cell boost and wifi ranger. The switches are mounted on side of closet. I bought a 25 foot very low loss 50 ohm cable with fitting to match the booster and candy bar antenna. The pickup ant runs to the passenger visor area of the coach to maximize separation. I was able to run the ant out the propane line hole thru the floor and come up where I needed it in the coach by going under coach. The 4GM is nearly the same as your unit. Extending the pick up antenna did not drop performance significantly. My I phone will will jump from 1-2 bars to 4 bars with the boost on. DW can make boosted calls when I drive and the phone can sit on the visor shelf when hot spotting. Hope some of this helps your planning. I bought the very low loss cable on Amazon, if you need a specific link then private message me. Good luck.

[Outlaw7]

Thank you both for the replies. Good stuff

Rich, yes I am going to permanently mount this unit. Good idea about running a switch and wire to an available fuse. Guess I need to learn how that is going to happen. Is it as simple as a 2 wire switch ( one wire going to the booster and the other plugged into the fuse?). Am I cutting off the 12 volt socket plug and installing spade terminals for the fuse connection?

I'd like to mount the exterior antenna in the middle of the roof area using a small Winegard aluminum baseplate, run wire under the roof to the TV antenna area ( which will be removed as I'm replacing the whole setup and doing away with the crank up version I have.) Should be able to make that run as its only 3-4' away. If that. Not sure if this new antenna needs a ground plane or not

Then I like your idea about coming down the fridge/ hot water tank area, but in my case minus coming down the actual vent, and then into that entry way coat closet for the Booster install. The rest of your description and cable run I can figure out. It sounds like a good spot for the interior antenna. I agree.

Where did you mount your switch ? Inside the locker by the booster,,or nearby where the all the group switches are?

I'm still a month away from doing any of this as it is winter. I just want to have my plan down.


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[B and B]

Hello.I am a broadcast engineer. Think back to old car mounted cell phone antenna on glass worked great. They still had gain of approx 6 db. Your mag mount style antenna has 6 db of gain. The ground plane effective for CB frequencies below 30 MHz AM was a better choice. For cell reception on the 900 MHz, 1.4 GHz full digital band and in between does not need the large ground plane.
Before mounting a huge piece of metal that will rust on your Motorhome I would just mount the antenna on a ladder or fridge vent to test. I doubt there will be much difference.

[Rich.M]

I wired a new line to our fuse box since there were 2 unused circuits available. You will need to look at your box. If there are slots without fuses in them then you can add a new line. Just unscrew the box from the cabinet with the 12 volt and 110 v disconnected. Pull box forward and you will see the wiring blocks to add a new line and add a fuse. Most of my RV wiring is 14 ga. So that's what I used. I added spade connectors for the 12 v switch. You will need to cut off 12 volt plug on the booster and add spade connectors as well for the switch. The switch is mounted on the outside of the closet near our bed. The 12 volt to 5-6 volt transformer for the cell boost is in the utility space near the switch. If you don't have a space for a new 12 volt line on the box then you may need to splice into another 12 volt line that doesn't have a high amp load already ( need to check wiring diagrams) . Be sure not to reverse polarity as you hardware to the booster.
I used the std 4 inch ant on the roof with an alum ground plane of 9 inch diameter. My primary concern was Verizon LTE reception at 700 MHz which does not benefit significantly from the larger antenna. I don't know if the trucker ant does that frequency if you need it. Some of the trucker ant from weboost have a built in ground plane so then you may not need one. The small ant works well. We used it in arches national park this summer 1-2 bars regular cell service became 2-3 bars LTE at the flip of a switch. The tower was about 20 miles away in the Lasalle mountains

[Gidyupgo]

Thanks B and B. You are the expert. LTE and 4g is preferred, but once we are out on the road, LTE discovery on my phone is seeing some 800mhz 3G.
My research found that 14x14 was minimal for a ground plane in that range and 28x28 is preferred. True, probably wouldn't notice any difference as you say in most situations and don't need that much plane on the higher frequencies, but the whole reason for the Max Amp RV booster is to keep a signal while crossing the country. We have children and grands in San Angelo and there are long stretches of road in that part of the country where we always lose signal on that trip. We are planning a spring trip to visit and that is where the real test will be.
Do you think that the 28" is unnecessary, given these circumstances?
Info is from here;
https://www.maximumsignal.net/f-a-qs

Thank you,

Gary


Gary

[Rich.M]

Here is an online ground plane calculator to help with your planning.
The Ground Plane Antenna Calculator

[Gidyupgo]

Thank you Rich.

[B and B]

Sorry late response. You can use stainless steel. No rust at all.
One thing thing that used to be used on fibreglass was foil tape. Much like metal tape used for duct sealing. This could be used for a test.

[Gidyupgo]

Thank you B and B, no worries. We did get a chance to go out this past weekend and while parked was able to try the inside antenna in the middle of our 32 foot rig with the outside ant at the front and then the back to make sure we didn't get a red light indicating oscillation. No problems.

So, now I could really use your expertise on placement of the roof antenna. The antenna is ~ 13" so the roof AC is a "line of sight" obstruction. I did the test with it in front of the AC and behind the AC. In either place, there is a good 6' of separation and no oscillation. For the best chance of getting a signal going down the road, am I overthinking this, or wouldn't in front of the AC unit be the preferred location since it would have an unobstructed "view" to search for signals?
Thanks for your input.



Gary

[WolfWhistle]

Originally Posted by Outlaw7

Thank you both for the replies. Good stuff

Rich, yes I am going to permanently mount this unit. Good idea about running a switch and wire to an available fuse. Guess I need to learn how that is going to happen. Is it as simple as a 2 wire switch ( one wire going to the booster and the other plugged into the fuse?). Am I cutting off the 12 volt socket plug and installing spade terminals for the fuse connection?

I'd like to mount the exterior antenna in the middle of the roof area using a small Winegard aluminum baseplate, run wire under the roof to the TV antenna area ( which will be removed as I'm replacing the whole setup and doing away with the crank up version I have.) Should be able to make that run as its only 3-4' away. If that. Not sure if this new antenna needs a ground plane or not

Then I like your idea about coming down the fridge/ hot water tank area, but in my case minus coming down the actual vent, and then into that entry way coat closet for the Booster install. The rest of your description and cable run I can figure out. It sounds like a good spot for the interior antenna. I agree.

Where did you mount your switch ? Inside the locker by the booster,,or nearby where the all the group switches are?

I'm still a month away from doing any of this as it is winter. I just want to have my plan down.


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Originally Posted by Outlaw7

Thank you both for the replies. Good stuff

Rich, yes I am going to permanently mount this unit. Good idea about running a switch and wire to an available fuse. Guess I need to learn how that is going to happen. Is it as simple as a 2 wire switch ( one wire going to the booster and the other plugged into the fuse?). Am I cutting off the 12 volt socket plug and installing spade terminals for the fuse connection?

I'd like to mount the exterior antenna in the middle of the roof area using a small Winegard aluminum baseplate, run wire under the roof to the TV antenna area ( which will be removed as I'm replacing the whole setup and doing away with the crank up version I have.) Should be able to make that run as its only 3-4' away. If that. Not sure if this new antenna needs a ground plane or not

Then I like your idea about coming down the fridge/ hot water tank area, but in my case minus coming down the actual vent, and then into that entry way coat closet for the Booster install. The rest of your description and cable run I can figure out. It sounds like a good spot for the interior antenna. I agree.

Where did you mount your switch ? Inside the locker by the booster,,or nearby where the all the group switches are?

I'm still a month away from doing any of this as it is winter. I just want to have my plan down.


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Hi Outlaw. First thing, is that an aluminum plate won't work as a ground plane, it has to be ferrous metal. But, like was pointed out it doesn't have to be very large. I have fished all around my trailer, in fact for many years as a telecom / datacom tech.

By removing things on the ceiling: lights, vent covers, electric covers (etc) you can work from one to the other. The ceiling joists / rafters are truss-like but the air spaces are very small; the closer you get to the sides the tighter it gets. When pulling / pushing wire from one to another, it is hard to hit these small spaces, but it can be done with a heavy application of patience. You can also use speaker wire to pull with, but pull a wire with it, to allow you to pull the speaker wire back to where it was. You can also use AC duct, but care needs to be taken in that, it is delicate and you will want to seal any hole you make entering or leaving the duct. Never lose sight that you can also run wire under the floor of the unit.

I have the RV 4G version and with the book size outdoor antenna and both the small "computer speaker" size indoor antenna and the larger book size one. From testing, I am not sure the larger INDOOR antenna will work. It seems to me I can not get enough separation to eliminate oscillation, although from testing, that doesn't seem to be a big issue. I have recorded small gain in signal strength, but large increases in data speeds, while in reduced booster output. The advantage of the larger indoor is that you don't have to be as close to it for it to work, if it will work. Especially in the case of the little chocolate bar or the desk top indoor antenna that looks similar to a computer speaker. You almost have to have device in contact with the bar, and within inches of the other one.

Like you, I also won't run wire across surfaced, unless it can be done neatly and hidden.

My background is in telecom with sprinkling of radio... microwave, etc.. I've learned that antennas are in some ways NOT an exact science. Trial and error is the norm in placement. That is what has me cautious to drill the first hole.

Thoughts:

Outdoor antenna location permanent mount: either ON the crank up antenna (custom adaptor), which has the huge advantage of being able to aim it from inside. Testing shows me that when you get too much signal, you can aim away from the cell tower to stop oscillation and improve boost. So, tweaking via aiming might be required. Another advantage is that it would give me more separation, which equates to longer wire runs... a disadvantage.

The second place would be on the roof very near the fridge vent. This location has its advantages in that there is a beautiful path down that vent and that a 12 vdc supply is there; it is close to the side of the rig reachable from a ladder; there is 12v available nearby and a nice place to mount the booster itself. There is even a spare switch right there. I think I just made up my mind.

It still would entail running from there to the indoor antenna, but much shorter pulls that with the outdoor antenna near the front of the trailer. The logical place for the indoor antena is near the pantry cabinet, which lets me hide wiring. The recliner is near the pantry.

From the pantry cabinet, it is an easy fish (under the shower pan) to the garage (mine is a toyhauler) where I could run coax for the indoor antenna (either one) which would give me more separation and allow usage from back there (as an alternative) which also serves as dining room and second bedroom, when not hauling a motorcycle.

the attachment is a simple antenna mount. Note, my antenna doesn't need a ground plane.

If I can help you in more detail don't hesitate to PM me
WW

[Rich.M]

Maybe our radio engineers can pipe in on this but Any conductive metal will work as a ground plane aluminum (jet plane skins) , steel, copper etc. As long as it conducts and is properly sized. You do not need to use a steel that will rust and give streaks. The reference to ferromagnetic usually is for magnetic antenna mounts.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_plane

[WolfWhistle]

Originally Posted by Rich.M

Maybe our radio engineers can pipe in on this but Any conductive metal will work as a ground plane aluminum (jet plane skins) , steel, copper etc. As long as it conducts and is properly sized. You do not need to use a steel that will rust and give streaks. The reference to ferromagnetic usually is for magnetic antenna mounts.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_plane

You are exactly correct Rich; any conductor will function as a ground plane, the more conductive the better; aluminum certainly does conduct electricity. I had in my head the OP was using a magnetic mount. I went back and carefully read Outlaw7 post... he has the trucker system antenna, which does not require a ground plane. The RV kit I bought... that book sized antenna also doesn't need a ground plane.

I apologize for missing the facts, assuming, and that double quote... never had that happen before

https://www.wilsonamplifiers.com/con...er-Antenna.pdf

[Gidyupgo]

Outlaw7, thought I would update on our cell booster install on SunSeeker 3010. We were fortunate that we were able to use the roof Satellite pre-wire as routing, with only a slight modification. There is a conduit for the sat wire but the booster cable end was too big to go through. It was only 5 ft from the roof penetration point to the cabinet with a front surround speaker cutout in between, so it was easy to route it anyway. Tried to use the rear surround speaker wires to pull the internal antenna cable but the end connector kept hanging up hard on something about half way, so ended up going through the cabinets. Only about an inch of cable showing where it comes out of the speaker cutout. There is both 12v and 110 power in this cabinet so easy install for the Maxamp RV. Wife was surfing on her cellular IPad and said that the signal bars didn't change but pages were loading noticeably faster. More pictures on my album page.
Going to replace this round plate with a flat one that won't rely so heavily on a dicor plug.
This is where the Sat prewire cable enters behind the radio. I couldn't use it since the booster cable end was too big.

[WolfWhistle]

A FYI on how well the booster (RV model) is working right now. With no booster I'm getting around 102dBm 1 ASU... boosted 69dBm 16 ASU. The big difference is ping times reduced and data speeds much higher.
WW

[Gidyupgo]

Wolf, we are seeing similar results. We were also getting intermittant oscillation with the inside ant where it was so moved it about 3 feet further aft and eliminated th problem. Big test for us next month as we head for San Angelo where there were long stretches of weak/no signal on that trip last year.

[WolfWhistle]

Originally Posted by Gidyupgo

Wolf, we are seeing similar results. We were also getting intermittant oscillation with the inside ant where it was so moved it about 3 feet further aft and eliminated th problem. Big test for us next month as we head for San Angelo where there were long stretches of weak/no signal on that trip last year.

G, do you know if there is an app to better aim the booster?

The way I understand it is that if you are seeing oscillation the booster is still functioning but in reduced output and not to be too concerned. I have never seen all 4 lights steady green; two at the most. Wilson instruction say if you get oscillation to move the interior antenna 50 feet horizontally or 20 feet vertically away from the external antenna... kind of hard to do in my 35' trailer.

I have tinkered with the idea that rather aim at an antenna and experience flashing red to green (reduced power) is to aim away from the tower and get a steady green light. I think I can get more gain that way, but am not convinced its worth the trouble and don't know the effect on data speeds.

The mystery to me, is which light relates to my devices. Even if I know which light is for what technoloty 3G or 4G and frequencies, I don't know what my phone or hotspot is operating on at the moment. My phone is out of date; running CDMA and 3G max. Hotspot 4G

I was told by Wilson: Top is 700Mhz - 4G, second 800Mhz-3G, third 1900Mhz - 3G and forth down: 1700 or 2100Mhz - and back to 4G. It seem unreasonable to me that all frequencies will be used on all towers, making me think flashing red to green could also indicate an unused frequency... dunno.

[Gidyupgo]

Sorry, no

[Gidyupgo]

Originally Posted by WolfWhistle

G, do you know if there is an app to better aim the booster?

.

Wolf I found an app called LTE Discovery that is great if your phone is Android and can use it.