8315bss Arrives

[reinreb]

Having waited 13 weeks, in the end it was worth it and I know there are others out there waiting a lot longer. We traded in our 2010 Gulf Stream 22ft. Big difference in comfort and handling.
A couple of months ago there was some discussion on whether a 2010 Ram 1500 would handle this baby. At 31.5 feet, it does handle differently than the 22 footer but on the way home I was cruising along at 100 kph or 55-60 mph and checked the tach. At 1700 RPM with 6000-7000 lbs right behind me I was very happy at the way my Ram was purring down the road. Granted there is a bit more work involved when on an incline but I went into this knowing I’d be filling up more than before.
So as far as this camper is concerned the 1500 is just fine, watch your speed, your tach and distance required to stop.
Happy trails everyone

[RubenZ]

LOL @ the "watch your speed, your tach and distance required to stop" comment. Thats nice and dandy if you can predict the future. What if a deer crosses road? what if car pulls in front? etc. Your 1500 light truck will take a crap. There is a reason 2500s and 3500's have heavier axles, heavier frames, heavier suspension, etc. etc. Congrats on your new trailer, but just because your truck can maintain a 55-60 speed on a road doesn't mean its safe. I can probably hook up that trailer to a Diesel MULE ATV and get that fast, doesn't mean you should do it.

[trudinator]

We have friends who pull their 32- foot Laredo with a Ram 1500 hemi short-box. He hasn't had any issues so far other than power on big hills. He has a good WD hitch and a brake controller and knows not to drive the thing 70 mph. We, on the other hand, bought a new-to-us 2006 dodge ram 2500 cummins turbo diesel in the same weekend we picked up our 32 ft rockwood. It was either that or pull it with a 2002 dodge durango. I'm one DW who is happier than a pig in mud that we decided to pull the trigger on the truck. I would have been scared s...less with the durango. But I don't think a 1500 is a bad tow vehicle; I see all sorts of tt's being pulled by them; and not everyone can afford the new TV and TT at the same time. The 1500 does a great job.

[dezolen]

Trailer brakes are supposed to stop the trailer not the trucks brakes.
If I could get away with a 1/2 ton I sure would as it makes a much better daily driver and handles alot safer than a 3/4 ton empty IMHO. There will always be tradeoffs.

[Glenn5995]

Originally Posted by dezolen

Trailer brakes are supposed to stop the trailer not the trucks brakes.
If I could get away with a 1/2 ton I sure would as it makes a much better daily driver and handles alot safer than a 3/4 ton empty IMHO. There will always be tradeoffs.

Although it would seem to make sense that because the trailer has brakes, the trailer brakes stop the trailer and the tow vehicle brakes stop the tow vehicle, but that is not the case. If the trailer brakes stopped all of the trailer weight, then you would be able to stop in the same distance whether towing or not. Anyone who has towed for some time knows that you leave yourself more distance for stopping. This can only be because the tow vehicle’s brakes are stopping some of the trailer weight. If the tow vehicle’s brakes were unaffected by the trailer, it would be able to stop in the same distance.

What is happening is that the brakes are stopping the weight supported by the wheels they are attached to. In a static world this would mean the tow vehicle’s brakes are stopping the tow vehicle’s weight plus the hitch or pin weight of the trailer which it is towing, however braking does not occur in the static world so we have to make the assessment in the dynamic world.

Newton’s first law is “Every body remains in a state of constant velocity unless acted upon by an external unbalanced force.” Because the brakes are below the center of mass of the vehicle, the center of mass wants to keep moving forward and over the brakes. The vehicle components become a moment arm and results in a torque being applied. This is commonly referred to as “weight shift” and is why the front of a vehicle dips as it brakes. The harder the brake application, the greater the torque and the more the front of the vehicles drops. As this happens, the front brakes begin to assume a greater percentage of the braking effort and the rear brakes decrease. The extreme example is a stunt rider on a motorcycle who brakes to the point where the motorcycle is on the front wheel in an "endo" or "stoppie". At this point the the front tire/wheel is supporting 100% the weight and the front brake is doing 100% of the braking. The operator may be applying the rear brake, but it is providing 0% to the braking of the motorcycle.

That is for the tow vehicle, but the trailer is doing the same thing. As you brake, it is applying more torque i.e., weight to the tow vehicle. This is why when you make a hard stop while towing, once stopped, the rear of the tow vehicle will rise back up and the vehicle will tend to “porpoise” as the vehicle’s suspension adjusts back to the static weight it is carrying. Like the tow vehicle, the harder the braking, the more torque that is applied to the tow vehicle and its braking system. That is why on other forums and perhaps here (I am new here), individuals with towing experience will frequently caution someone towing near their capacity that it may fine until you have to make a “panic stop”. They are usually speaking from experience, because in a “panic stop” a tremendous amount of the trailer weight will be stopped by the tow vehicle’s braking system and that is when its limitations will become apparent.

That is the main reason. Another is that trailer brakes generally are not as efficient as vehicle brakes. Many are not self-adjusting, so unless they were just adjusted, they probably are out of adjustment at least somewhat and possibly quite a bit. Even if everything is just right, they are not as efficient as vehicle brakes. Additionally, although inertia brake controllers are good, they do not exactly match vehicle braking and may not be adjusted exactly where they should be.

Sorry for the long post, but simply put, the tow vehicle is stopping a portion of the trailer weight. The harder the stop, the greater the percentage. That is why you leave additional distance for stopping and why the brakes on a vehicle used regularly for towing will not last as long as one not towing (all other variables being equal).

[dezolen]

So an 18 wheeler truck's brakes are meant to stop 2 40' tag along trailers. I think not.
Any tow vehicles brakes will help out when trailering but I fail to see your logic. No matter what an emergency situation will create dangerous side effects and more so when towing a large trailer. Perhaps speed is the biggest controllable variable as I just returned from a highway 4 hr trip and while I maintained a max 60 mph tow speed I was continually passed by others towing at (NASCAR) speeds. But I guess that is why some people seem to think a brute of a tow vehicle is better and required.

[Glenn5995]

My apologies to the OP, reinreb. It was not my intention to hi-jack your post. My response was not in reference to your situation or intended to imply your set-up is not safe. It was simply in response to the thought that the tow vehicle's brakes are not affected by the trailer. I am glad you had an enjoyable time and hope you have many more.

Originally Posted by dezolen

So an 18 wheeler truck's brakes are meant to stop 2 40' tag along trailers.

Yes and no.

As I stated, brakes are stopping the weight supported by the axles, tires and wheels to which they are attached. Consider a motorcycle. It is not designed to carry much weight outside of the operator. The front brakes will have much greater surface area, usually two rotors, than the rear. Now go up to a passenger car. It is able to carry more weight, but not a large percentage in relationship to its weight. The front brakes will will be larger than the rear, but the difference will not be as great as with the motorcycle. Now go up to a 2500/3500. The rear brakes are getting larger in proportion to the front, because there is now an expectation of more cargo/load on the rear axle. When you get to a tractor for a tractor/trailer combination, the brakes for the rear axle are huge. They aren't that way for stopping the tractor, they are there for stopping the weight which will be supported by the rear axles.

In the case of a tag-along, the second trailer will not be used as a semi-trailer, but will be used as a full trailer, with a front axle and draw bar. As such it supports its own weight and will not transfer weight to the semi-trailer or tractor.

I do not want to detract from the OP's post about a very enjoyable trip by getting into a debate. I realize I will not convince everyone. However, even if you do not completely understand the concepts, simple observation will tell you there are forces on the tow vehicle from the trailer when stopping. If not, the tow vehicle would stop in the same distance whether towing or not. It takes longer when towing because there are forces from the trailer which the tow vehicle's brakes must compensate for. The percentages will change with the type of trailer, whether a conventional, fifth wheel or semi-trailer and with the specifics of the combination.

I just do not want individuals to disregard braking capacities when considering their tow vehicle selection. The braking capacities of the vehicle are part of the considerations manufacturers use when establishing their GVWR and GCWR for their vehicles. There are many factors, braking is just one of them.