Forest River Warranty Delays

[BandJCarm]

Continuing pet peeve of mine.................


There IS NO FOREST RIVER WARRANTY. Forest River has a gazillion divisions and a lot of various types of units. Some of those divisions are apparently not very good. Some, like mine, are awesome.



Yet owners of all different kinds and brands will chime in with their experience. In this case, Cherokee, not their parent owning company. It's just not a valid comparison. And it's really unfair to blame an entire company like Forest River when it's really the Dealer that's at fault.


This is a general statement about complaints and warranty, not specifically to this post...........but it might apply.

[blackseven]

Originally Posted by BandJCarm

Continuing pet peeve of mine.................


There IS NO FOREST RIVER WARRANTY. Forest River has a gazillion divisions and a lot of various types of units. Some of those divisions are apparently not very good. Some, like mine, are awesome.



Yet owners of all different kinds and brands will chime in with their experience. It's just not a valid comparison. And it's really unfair to blame an entire company like Forest River when it's really the Dealer that's at fault.

HAH. It's incredibly fair to blame Forest River. They have total control over the dealers that carry out their warranty work for whatever product lines they sell. Just like an independent automotive dealer. If you do something to damage the brand, you can expect admonishment. FR just doesn't care. The RV market is so broken and they're making enough money that it doesn't matter to them.

[BandJCarm]

Then it's fair for me to say you are wrong. You say Forest River doesn't care. Yet "Forest River" through one of their Divisions, has spent, in my estimate, about $25,000 fixing a zillion things on my unit, and doing it quickly and willingly and gladly.

So your statement can NOT be correct as written. And it's fair of me to say so.

[blackseven]

Originally Posted by BandJCarm

Then it's fair for me to say you are wrong. You say Forest River doesn't care. Yet "Forest River" through one of their Divisions, has spent, in my estimate, about $25,000 fixing a zillion things on my unit, and doing it quickly and willingly and gladly.

So your statement can NOT be correct as written. And it's fair of me to say so.

It's also fair to say you sound like an apologist with an atypical experience. And you're misrepresenting Forest Rivers relationships with it's brands. FR is not a parent company. Each brand does not operate independently. Those brands share components and floor plans. In some cases are put together right next to each other by the same workforce in the same building. The only differences are marketing and features. Almost all have the same underrated axles, garbage lippert suspension/ frames and tires guaranteed to explode after a few thousand miles. It is what it is.

[BandJCarm]

Originally Posted by blackseven

It's also fair to say you sound like an apologist with an atypical experience. And you're misrepresenting Forest Rivers relationships with it's brands. FR is not a parent company. Each brand does not operate independently. Those brands share components and floor plans. In some cases are put together right next to each other by the same workforce in the same building. The only differences are marketing and features. Almost all have the same underrated axles, garbage lippert suspension/ frames and tires guaranteed to explode after a few thousand miles. It is what it is.

My case is not atypical. I can point you to dozens upon dozens of owners of my brand who would say exactly what I have said. I am not apologizing for anyone or anything. I am merely trying to balance what you imply is 100% across an entire company, with counter information and facts that prove otherwise.


I agree, Lippert is used ubiquitously, and their components have gone steadily downhill. Is that Forest River's fault? If you think yes, please tell me LCI's competitor so that "Forest River" can change to them.......


I actually sympathize with your plight. I have been through the wringer myself. But I found ways to get it fixed, and now I couldn't be happier.



But you simply can't equally and totally compare a stick and tin 18' bumper pull with a 42 foot fifth wheel with a diesel pusher Bus/Motorhome with a Class B with a...........you just can't validly do that.

[upflying]

Mine sat at the dealer for a month because they couldn't get the brakes to work.
Lesson learned, if you want something fixed, do it yourself.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by blackseven

It's also fair to say you sound like an apologist with an atypical experience. And you're misrepresenting Forest Rivers relationships with it's brands. FR is not a parent company. Each brand does not operate independently. Those brands share components and floor plans. In some cases are put together right next to each other by the same workforce in the same building. The only differences are marketing and features. Almost all have the same underrated axles, garbage lippert suspension/ frames and tires guaranteed to explode after a few thousand miles. It is what it is.

While that may be accurate for some FR lines, I was at the Georgetown plant two days ago and it's only used for Georgetown's. The Georgetown suspension is by Moryde. I think FR has eighty plants.

RV dealerships are very different from auto dealerships in that they have no contractual obligation to perform warranty repairs for units bought at other dealerships.

At best the manufacturer could terminate a dealership's ability to sell their brands new. Many dealerships seem to sell numerous brands so the loss of one brand may not hurt.

I think delays are more about the ethics of the dealership for warranty work than the manufacturer. They're also about the expectations and attitude of the RV owner.

Yes, these things can cost more than a house and yard. No new house is perfect and I've had water, electrical and other issues that were a fight to get resolved on a non-drivable house. Not fun then either. I just stay politely persistent if possible.

Ray

[blackseven]

Originally Posted by NXR

While that may be accurate for some FR lines, I was at the Georgetown plant two days ago and it's only used for Georgetown's. The Georgetown suspension is by Moryde. I think FR has eighty plants.

RV dealerships are very different from auto dealerships in that they have no contractual obligation to perform warranty repairs for units bought at other dealerships.

This is simply not true if they're a Forest River dealership. In fact, Forest river went out of their way to punish dealers that were telling customers this line of crap. It's been hashed out many many times, but it's now directly stated that warranty work can be carryed out at any authorized Forest river repair facility. A whole thread you can read here about FR clamping down on dealers that sandbag warranty work. Although there should be way more done to punish dealers that don't follow through on warranty work in a timely fashion.

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...cy-134271.html

Originally Posted by NXR

At best the manufacturer could terminate a dealership's ability to sell their brands new. Many dealerships seem to sell numerous brands so the loss of one brand may not hurt.

I think delays are more about the ethics of the dealership for warranty work than the manufacturer. They're also about the expectations and attitude of the RV owner.

Yes, these things can cost more than a house and yard. No new house is perfect and I've had water, electrical and other issues that were a fight to get resolved on a non-drivable house. Not fun then either. I just stay politely persistent if possible.

Ray

The dealers don't make the same money on warranty work. They don't in the automotive world either but they're still on the hook for it because it can create legal and brand image issues. If you're the only game in town, maybe it's cheaper to pay the lawyers than it is the dealer techs for warranty labor hours.

[bikendan]

To say that FR can control their dealers, is not accurate.
The RV Industry doesn't operate like the Auto Industry.
RV dealers are independent businesses and RV manufacturers can't make the dealers do anything. That's why dealers can say that they don't do warranty work on units they didn't sell.
All a RV manufacturer can do, is cancel the contract they have with the dealer.

[spock123]

I’m like BandJCarm, my Cedar Creek is four years old and Cedar Creek just paid $1966.00 to repaint my front cap. Is that not service or what. Camper is 4 years old, out of warranty more than three years. Last year camper was three years old and the rear cap was replaced plus the factory paid for work that Cedar Creek doesn’t even install on a factory model. Say what you want Cedar Creek has been very good to us. Some things I have fixed myself. I brought my Cedar Creek from Tom Johnson in Marion NC that was being sold out to Camping World.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by blackseven

This is simply not true if they're a Forest River dealership. In fact, Forest river went out of their way to punish dealers that were telling customers this line of crap. It's been hashed out many many times, but it's now directly stated that warranty work can be carried out at any authorized Forest river repair facility.
...
The dealers don't make the same money on warranty work. They don't in the automotive world either but they're still on the hook for it because it can create legal and brand image issues. If you're the only game in town, maybe it's cheaper to pay the lawyers than it is the dealer techs for warranty labor hours.

We're saying the same thing. "can be carried out at any authorized Forest River repair facility" is not the same as "warranty work will be prioritized to get you back on the road in a timely manner."

One large dealer flat out told us they would not repair defective slides in two (yes, two) RV's until we bought it. We couldn't even test drive the second one because the slide jammed part way out during the demo. They sell a lot of RVs so clearly some people are OK with this. They also said they prioritize their service work as:

1. New units getting ready for delivery (PDI is only done after purchase)
2. Broke RVs that they sold needing to get back on the road.
3. RV's they sold that are now out of warranty.
4. Other RV's they did not sell but are out of warranty.
5. Other RV's they did not sell but are in warranty.

They sell thousands a year and just expanded again. I don't get it. Clearly they behave this way because they can.

Another large dealer told us a similar story. They prioritize the people who bought from them but I've never had that happen with an auto dealer. So we bought from a smaller, family-owned dealer. But I shudder to think what will happen if we suffer a major breakdown while out of state.

Ray

[pgandw]

Originally Posted by NXR

Another large dealer told us a similar story. They prioritize the people who bought from them but I've never had that happen with an auto dealer. So we bought from a smaller, family-owned dealer. But I shudder to think what will happen if we suffer a major breakdown while out of state.
Ray

Think about what you just said. An auto dealer generally has only one brand at a given dealership. The dealership has to meet a lot of standards to continue as a dealer for that brand. And for almost all new car dealerships, the repair section brings in a lot more profit than the sale of new cars. Despite all this, there are numerous auto dealerships where I will never take my vehicle for repairs. My wife gets very tired of dealer repair shops trying to sell her filters and brake work she doesn't need. And how many times does a dealer fail to fix a problem the 1st time around? Not all dealership repair shops are good; not all are bad. This despite the importance of the repair shop to the dealership and the car manufacturer represented.

Now compare to RV dealerships. Most dealerships sell more than one make/manufacturer of RV so that they are not beholden to that brand. Which means the repair shop has to deal with multiple makes of RVs, with little literature or training on the differences from one brand to another. The car dealership mechanics normally have manufacturer-specific training, and they have factory resources and technical manuals to call or lookup if/when they get stuck. And still not everything gets fixed right the 1st time. The RV mechanic has none of these advantages, and rarely is the repair shop more important to profits than the sales force - the profit margin on a new RV sale is much higher than the profit margin on a new car or truck.

And I can remember (1980s) when car dealer repair shops would put you on delay for warranty work if you had bought the car somewhere else. IIRC, it was in the early 80s when Lincoln/Mercury came out with the 1st repair guarantees - that you could take the repair back for a redo at ANY L/M dealer free for 90 days.

Having learned from these forums and personal experience that a good repair shop is far more important than I expected in owning an RV, I check out the shop before I purchase an RV there. As you pointed out, the family-owned RV dealers are a more likely to have a good repair shop than the large chains. I will willingly pay an extra thousand to buy my campers from a dealership with a good repair shop.

just my thoughts and experiences
Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time

[mpouls1]

I appreciated the honesty the RV dealer told me when I first asked about service after the purchase (my first TT) which was basically verbatim what NXR said. I purchased from a family owned dealer 1hr away but they are part of CW now and there is an actual CW 10 minutes from my house so I'm basically up a creek.

I like to do most work myself so I don't mind spending time working on my own rig. I'd rather do it myself then have somebody else fix one thing and break two others. I know some people can't do their own work but what can you do? From what I can tell the business is doing great so service will suffer generally speaking of course. But I'm still new to all this and still learning.

I missed a broken screen door on my PDI but can't catch everything right? I'd rather fix it myself so I plan on calling FR in the future hopefully I can just deal with them.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by pgandw

Having learned from these forums and personal experience that a good repair shop is far more important than I expected in owning an RV, I check out the shop before I purchase an RV there. As you pointed out, the family-owned RV dealers are a more likely to have a good repair shop than the large chains. I will willingly pay an extra thousand to buy my campers from a dealership with a good repair shop.

Agreed. That's one reason we walked away from two dealers. Another issue with being in the northern part of the country is that RV repair places are far and few between and pretty much shut down during the winter months. There are only two dealers in Ohio for the FR Georgetown. Neither does engine or chassis work. There aren't really any driving instructors in Ohio either. The one we finally hooked up with is only because he has family in southern Ohio and comes up for visits in late summer.

The bigger concern is the "on the road" problems. Fortunately those should become more numerous the further we get into warm weather. Fortunately we're both mechanically inclined and I've got decades of electrical and electronics experience. But I am investing in a good roadside assistance program for "those moments". And a stocked refrigerator.

Ray

[Mark S.]

I’ll never buy another camper from Camping World. They only care about the sell . Not the warranty work. They looked at me like I was stupid when I told them what was wrong with the camper. I took it to a different dealer and Forest River told them to patch it. Really just two crossed wires. Good thing I’m a electrician.

[Up North]

Well I didn't read the entire post here but I will say this. We just purchased a brand new 2019 Forest River Wildwood destination trailer. As far as I'm concerned the manufactures warranty is pretty much useless. Once this camper is parked and a deck put on it's not going anywhere. Anything that needs to be done will require a service visit on site which is not covered. As the dealer explained it it is $200 per trip to come out to our location. If they don't have the right part for the repair and have to make another trip another $200. Um, I think not. Then there is this thing they call consequential damage that is not covered. That is if your water heater blows out and sprays water all over and a couple weeks later your battery charger/inverter quits because it got wet due to being wet from the water heater incident it's not covered.

They will not make service calls for what he called priority 2 service issues. Awning lights not working or tv or music system problems etc.

We got pressured heavily to purchase the Good Sam's Club extended warranties for the mechanical service and exterior and interior appearance warranty at a additional $7000! They reduced it at the end to $5500 as a final pressure tactic. Wife said yes I said no. I can fix a lot of stuff myself for $5500.

I fully expect to have issues with the new camper they all come with issues built in I just hope it's minor stuff and nothing major or prolonged problems.
I'm hoping that considering this camper will be towed down the road once and once only will reduce some of the issues.

These manufacturers are punching these things out to get to the dealers lot as quickly as possible. They are going to miss stuff and lets be honest these things are not built of the highest quality materials.

The service manager at the dealership already laid the ground work to us for the old we are at the mercy of Forest River for warranty repairs and it can take time. They need to send in pictures and all the paperwork to get authorization from Forest River before they can do the work.

We just did the whole walk through yesterday and got the low down on all this stuff. I left feeling we are pretty much on our own but if we wanted to give them another $5500 they might be able to help us out now and again.

So if a piece of trim comes off I will glue or staple it back myself and not even bother with the dealer. It's bad enough when these little things happen i'm not going to add on the frustration of bringing the dealer into it. Bigger things happen like leaks or slide outs not working I will have to go to the dealer but I will be prepared for a aggravating experience no doubt.

It's a darn shame that after a guy spends all that money you walk away with a attitude like this but it's the truth of the matter.

[Oaklevel]

Originally Posted by Up North

Well I didn't read the entire post here but I will say this. We just purchased a brand new 2019 Forest River Wildwood destination trailer. As far as I'm concerned the manufactures warranty is pretty much useless. Once this camper is parked and a deck put on it's not going anywhere. Anything that needs to be done will require a service visit on site which is not covered. As the dealer explained it it is $200 per trip to come out to our location. If they don't have the right part for the repair and have to make another trip another $200. Um, I think not. Then there is this thing they call consequential damage that is not covered. That is if your water heater blows out and sprays water all over and a couple weeks later your battery charger/inverter quits because it got wet due to being wet from the water heater incident it's not covered.

They will not make service calls for what he called priority 2 service issues. Awning lights not working or tv or music system problems etc.

We got pressured heavily to purchase the Good Sam's Club extended warranties for the mechanical service and exterior and interior appearance warranty at a additional $7000! They reduced it at the end to $5500 as a final pressure tactic. Wife said yes I said no. I can fix a lot of stuff myself for $5500.

I fully expect to have issues with the new camper they all come with issues built in I just hope it's minor stuff and nothing major or prolonged problems.
I'm hoping that considering this camper will be towed down the road once and once only will reduce some of the issues.

These manufacturers are punching these things out to get to the dealers lot as quickly as possible. They are going to miss stuff and lets be honest these things are not built of the highest quality materials.

The service manager at the dealership already laid the ground work to us for the old we are at the mercy of Forest River for warranty repairs and it can take time. They need to send in pictures and all the paperwork to get authorization from Forest River before they can do the work.

We just did the whole walk through yesterday and got the low down on all this stuff. I left feeling we are pretty much on our own but if we wanted to give them another $5500 they might be able to help us out now and again.

So if a piece of trim comes off I will glue or staple it back myself and not even bother with the dealer. It's bad enough when these little things happen i'm not going to add on the frustration of bringing the dealer into it. Bigger things happen like leaks or slide outs not working I will have to go to the dealer but I will be prepared for a aggravating experience no doubt.

It's a darn shame that after a guy spends all that money you walk away with a attitude like this but it's the truth of the matter.

Sounds like everything that you are describing are bad dealer issues not issues with Forest River. I would find another dealer.......... Having said that we have a 2017 Wildwood Lodge destination trailer and it does get moved in and out of the campground on a highway often. We have had it nearly two years with no warranty work or repairs needed.

If you do have a major issue go back to Forest River and get an ok for a mobile repair service and stay away from your dealer. Do not blame Forest River.

[Up North]

I agree Oaklevel it's the dealer more than it is Forest River. I guess it sounds like I'm crying before I'm even hurt so we will see how things hold up. It's encouraging to hear you are traveling with your FR Lodge destination with no issues and I hope I'm as lucky.

Frankly we have 3 RV dealers in our area for anymore you have to travel 150 miles. Sadly neither of the three dealers here have a very good reputation for service. So at that point you are shopping for floor plan and price and you are rolling the dice on the rest of it.

[bikendan]

Up North, why didn't you use a mobile RV tech for warranty work.
All you would have to do, is to get is pre-approval from FR and be willing to be reimbursed.