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Old 05-03-2012, 10:26 AM   #51
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You forgot "Buyers are liars".

I'm not in retail sales, and I certainly know some salespeople are not always looking out for your best interest, but there are a few things to remember.

Your trade that you kept "immaculate" and just put new tires on...those things are EXPECTED. The book value is the book value. Some dealers shoot a high price to help cover your $20,000 trade in that is really worth about $10,000. They still have to finance it, bring it in, inspect it and clean it. If you think it's worth $20k...sell it yourself. The dealer is never going to give you retail price on a trade in unless they have it built into the new price. Everything costs something...so what is your time worth in trying to sell a unit yourself?

That nice RV you found and explored and toured and left and came back and looked at again. That unit costs money to keep in stock. It costs money to keep the lights on, employ the sales people, the techs, pay for the building, pay for the financing. They need to make SOMETHING on the unit to keep the doors open.

At the end of the day I have personally seen a customer pay more than they should for a unit and be happy as a clam, they got what they wanted. I have also seen a customer grind and grind and grind a dealer until the dealer let the unit go at a lost (YES, I have seen this to move a older unit, or just get a number in the books) and that customer still felt like he was getting screwed and went on to complain about everything.

In many cases the dealer feels like they left money on the table and the customer feels like they paid too much. Too often I see retail customer come into the process thinking the dealer is "out to get them". Perception is reality...if you think that coming in, nothing they do is going to change your mind.

You also can't really compare this to used cars. 90% of the salespeople I see in the RV field, have never sold cars.

I'm in the unique position of seeing both sides, retail customer & behind the scenes at the dealership. Most dealers just want to make a fair profit but they know the retail is going to grind them...if they give you their BEST price up front? then where do they go...cause you're not going to believe that's their best price.

Find a good salesperson that KNOWS their products. Expect good customer service and know what you are comfortable spending.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:50 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by bclemens View Post
You forgot "Buyers are liars".

I'm not in retail sales, and I certainly know some salespeople are not always looking out for your best interest, but there are a few things to remember.

Your trade that you kept "immaculate" and just put new tires on...those things are EXPECTED. The book value is the book value. Some dealers shoot a high price to help cover your $20,000 trade in that is really worth about $10,000. They still have to finance it, bring it in, inspect it and clean it. If you think it's worth $20k...sell it yourself. The dealer is never going to give you retail price on a trade in unless they have it built into the new price. Everything costs something...so what is your time worth in trying to sell a unit yourself?

That nice RV you found and explored and toured and left and came back and looked at again. That unit costs money to keep in stock. It costs money to keep the lights on, employ the sales people, the techs, pay for the building, pay for the financing. They need to make SOMETHING on the unit to keep the doors open.

At the end of the day I have personally seen a customer pay more than they should for a unit and be happy as a clam, they got what they wanted. I have also seen a customer grind and grind and grind a dealer until the dealer let the unit go at a lost (YES, I have seen this to move a older unit, or just get a number in the books) and that customer still felt like he was getting screwed and went on to complain about everything.

In many cases the dealer feels like they left money on the table and the customer feels like they paid too much. Too often I see retail customer come into the process thinking the dealer is "out to get them". Perception is reality...if you think that coming in, nothing they do is going to change your mind.

You also can't really compare this to used cars. 90% of the salespeople I see in the RV field, have never sold cars.

I'm in the unique position of seeing both sides, retail customer & behind the scenes at the dealership. Most dealers just want to make a fair profit but they know the retail is going to grind them...if they give you their BEST price up front? then where do they go...cause you're not going to believe that's their best price.

Find a good salesperson that KNOWS their products. Expect good customer service and know what you are comfortable spending.

The bottom line is dealers wouldn't be in the business if they were losing money. As A buyer, I know that they have to make money so that they can continue in business and support me through service, future purchases, etc. As a buyer, I simply try to negotiate the best deal for me, keeping more money in my pocket and less in Warren Buffet's, God only knows how much he has. I know, the guy is a great Philantropist. Not gonna bash him. Humanity has been bartering, buying, selling, trading, since the beginning of time. For some it's an art. For others, it's a chore. These are usually the ones on the losing end. Before I close a deal, I always ask for something, just to make me feel good. Sometimes, it can be something as little as a baseball cap. Other times, It may be another $500 discount. The important thing is, that both parties are happy with "the deal".
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:02 AM   #53
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As a buyer, I simply try to negotiate the best deal for me, keeping more money in my pocket and less in Warren Buffet's, God only knows how much he has.
...
Before I close a deal, I always ask for something, just to make me feel good. Sometimes, it can be something as little as a baseball cap. Other times, It may be another $500 discount. The important thing is, that both parties are happy with "the deal".
What you pay the dealer has no bearing whatso-ever to warren buffet's pocket. The dealer pays what the dealer pays to FR and anything over that he can get from you he can keep - if you pay full retail WB gets nothing extra.

Now a dealer that buys 3500 units (guaranteed, paying cash) to FR probably gets a better deal than a dealer that buys 100 a year and has to finance them. And I bet if you bought 20 TT's you get a very good price per unit too compared to buying one every few years.

Avis/Hertz and the like do not pay the same for a car that you and I do, but their purchases do help keep the factory running efficiently.

And yep, the 'free hat' thing is part of sales psychology too though not all dealers use it like they used to. It starts when you come in and they offer you coffee and coke...a 'gift' to you that subconsciensly (sp?) makes you feel obligiated to reciprocate (by buying). This technique is as old as the hills - my wife has all sorts of businesses buying her and her dept breakfast, donuts, lunch, pizza, etc to get their pharmaceuitcal business.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:33 AM   #54
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[QUOTE=prof_fate;190670]What you pay the dealer has no bearing whatso-ever to warren buffet's pocket. QUOTE]



You kind of incorrect there. Price is determined by supply and demand. If the demand is high, the price increases. Don't you think that WB doesn't know that? He didn't become a billionaire from buying lottery tickets. If a dealer can ask high prices and still make sales, that tells me that the demand is high. The manufacturer knows this and they want a piece of the action too. As a result the price to dealer goes up. Who makes the profit here if it's not, in this case, WB?
As for the baseball cap analogy, that is usually close to when a deal is consumated or something to make you feel good.
The donuts and coffee are just a complimentary thing. I would never buy from a dealer that tried to stuff me with coffee and donuts simply because I like neither, coffee nor donuts.
The theme of my earlier post responding to BCLEMENS was that there must be a happy median where seller and buyer are happy. And in my case, I am happiest when I have to spend less.
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:53 PM   #55
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My question is: I understand using RVW and RV Direct prices as jumping off points for negotiating with local dealers....What about purchasing from these 2 directly? How much % below their initial quotes should a person counter with? (Shopping for a small 20' Mini Lite trailer)
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:40 PM   #56
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Buyers often play a role in the games salesman play. I have made both good & bad deals but I played a role in each of them.

When I brought my TT there were other items included in the sales contract so I can't say what I really paid for the trailer vs the other items. I still feel I got a great deal but I wished I had a separate price breakdown.

Later when I brought my truck I was able to see all the information on the Fleet/Internet salesman's computer instead of listening to a salesman with a tiny piece of torn paper with various numbers written. I actually could see how everything related compared to some mystery numbers.

I had learned a lesson with the trailer contract and previous auto sales.

On a funny note - I traded in my 16 months old RAV4 for a truck to tow the trailer. I kept it in excellent condiditon but it was pretty new. The dealership sold it for $5k more than what I brought it for. I had a 3 year warranty and the new owners got a 7 year warranty for the same car. My RAV4 was worth more used than new.
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:25 PM   #57
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My question is: I understand using RVW and RV Direct prices as jumping off points for negotiating with local dealers....What about purchasing from these 2 directly? How much % below their initial quotes should a person counter with? (Shopping for a small 20' Mini Lite trailer)
RVW and RVDirect already have some of the lowest prices in the country.
you might be able to use them against each other but you're not going to get much more off.
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:59 PM   #58
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We used a little different method for our new purchase this year. Since the local RV show was in January, not good camping time, and had been looking around some at floor plans and pricing. At the RV show we had the opportunity to get up close and personal with several models in the size range we wanted and they had some good sale prices going. We found the Grey Wolf at a local dealers display and I did a double take on the sale price. It was 2 to 3,000 less than the others we had looked at. And had the power package, keyless entry, etc. Oh, and the fantastic Touch Audio system.
Sorry, I couldn't resist. Anyway, after looking it over well I felt it was a nice unit for the price. Their "list price" was right at 19,900 and RV show price was 11,995. Talked to the factory rep and the dealer staff, all nice folks and went home to research. Best I could find was the same trailer for 1,000 more and 2 states away. Long story short, I called them, price still good, added a few items and you know the rest of the story. However, I'm not sold on their shop service ability. They didn't reset my hitch right (my brother and I took care of that) and they missed a thing or two and it's quite obvious they don't really check these rigs out before delivery. We did a "fair" PDI, I've had rv's since 85 so am fairly comfortable with them, so didn't crawl into every nook and cranny. Found some minor things later that I fixed. Whoops, I'm rambling. If you're not in a hurry a local RV show is a great place to compare units and pricing. They really want to sell during the winter, slow time, and it gets them a great start for the spring. Patience, research and know what you want.
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:38 PM   #59
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Thank you so much for your replies. This became such a great read for me.

I ended up calling dealer #1 and told him the deal the other guy was giving me. They told me they would crunch some numbers and call me back. They ended up giving me the trailer for much less than they had originally quoted me. With the paper trade, they saved me $2000. I didn't have the electric lift, but it was 5 minutes from home and their service was excellent. We didn't have to spend 13 hrs driving to get the cheaper one.

I would never have known that I could have asked for a better price if it wasn't for this tread.
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:41 PM   #60
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Thank you so much for your replies. This became such a great read for me.

I ended up calling dealer #1 and told him the deal the other guy was giving me. They told me they would crunch some numbers and call me back. They ended up giving me the trailer for much less than they had originally quoted me. With the paper trade, they saved me $2000. I didn't have the electric lift, but it was 5 minutes from home and their service was excellent. We didn't have to spend 13 hrs driving to get the cheaper one.

I would never have known that I could have asked for a better price if it wasn't for this tread.
I'm glad it worked out and it does sounds like you got a good deal. What makes this site so great are members sharing viewpoints, feedback and support.

Have fun camping!
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