How can one dealer sell for so much cheaper?

[MilCop4523]

Originally Posted by CanadianMaple

If I buy the one out of province, with the cheaper guy, can I still have it serviced locally for warranty work? I'm assuming so?

we purchased a 2012 Salem 27RKSS from the States because I was stationed there and could bring back a vehicle or trailer when I was returned to Canadian military base.
We saved 50% off what the NB dealers wanted in Sussex and with the 7 % exchange rate got it even better at the bottom line. However when it comes to warranty work I am at the mercy of the local shops to pay them first and submit claims second.

You may be a bit better off but my guess is not much. sort of like buying a snow blower from Sears and being put on the bottom of the list for warranty work at the local shop for not getting theirs.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by prof_fate

As they say in the car biz - 20% of buyers will pay full retail. Are you one of those 20%? Only way to find out is to quote you full retail and see if you buy.

Also, many studies have been done that show the more you pay the happier a buyer you are...sounds odd, I know, but those in search of the lowest possible price always feel they paid too much and dealers that 'specialize' in tight deals rarely have the money to offer any goodies/incentives/special treatment/thankyous, etc. Service (as in how you're treated) is almost always tied directly to price.


Reminds of those folks selling stuff on pawn stars - " i won't accept less than $1000 " and then they take $500 and say "I got what I wanted" - of course, orelse you'd not have sold it.
Human nature...a funny beast.

As to units on the lot - the manufacturers sell to the dealers who then sell to you. I assum the RV industry is like cars/bikes - certain times of the year there are incentives. For bikes there is 'free flooring for 90 days' for bikes ordered for spring delivery (and quads for the fall). Car dealers often getting better pricing on 'last years' models and other incentives. Some pass these along, some do not. Many times there are incentives for financing X% of units or moving X units (sell 40 cars and get a $5000 credit from GM for example).
Some dealers pass these along, some do not. Some it depends...if today say, the last day of the month the need to move one more car to get that $5000 bonus you can get one heck of a deal if you're buying that car- hence all the advice to shop at the end of the month.
Also, salesman, managers and finance folk are all paid commission - it's in their best self interest to get as much as possible price wise, sell the units on the floor now, hit some sales quote (in unit count usually).

Now THIS has been my experience. LOL

As I said if you are not armed with at least a GUESS as to where his money line is; you are working down from his number and not up from yours. Of course there are better times to deal than others; "End of Month" "End of Quarter" End of Year" are times when dealers and salesmen are hot to close. Salesmen get big screen TVs and trips as incentives for them and if they are competing for that Aspen trip you might just get lucky. Once I learned how this all works, the last week of September and December have been very good to us when buying our cars and our truck.

Once I get my price; I close. I have never had "buyers remorse" and after you sign, everybody smiles. I also try very hard to go back to that same salesman because he knows how I deal. I also visit with him just to talk shop; but I tell him up front I am not looking to buy right now. He DOES want me to trade our truck though I think he wants it for himself!

I even got the "Employee's Discount" on the extended warranty (though the truck manager had to sign me up for that one - he called it a "loyalty reward"). I had to ask for it though...

[MilCop4523]

We saved 18,000 $ on my unit. A set of tires which need replacing are 600 for the 5 of them out of the states. If the local Forest river doesn't want to do the repairs then he ends up loosing the 1000$ Canadian for the same tires and install here. Sort of like cutting your nose off in spite of ones face.
Your other option is to get the lower price matched and if that doesn't work get the trailer from another location and return for maintenance under warranty and make a trip out of it. 500 miles is a tank of gas...
I can spend a lot of money on repairs to equal the 18 grand we saved originally and still have fun doing it.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by MilCop4523

can spend a lot of money on repairs to equal the 18 grand we saved originally and still have fun doing it.

Can I have an "Amen" to that?

[wmtire]

I had read a great article several years back, that detailed the inner workings of how many dealers sold automobiles...and confirming Prof Fate's advice. Let me see if I can find that again. I remember it was long reading, but gave you an entirely new perspective on negotiating prices.

EDIT: I found it

http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/co...-salesman.html

[Herk7769]

Thanks Bobby!

I am only half way through the article and I am ROLLING on the floor!

The key for me was:
************************************************** ****
"Three hundred below invoice," he smugly answered.

I asked how he did it. He said he checked prices on the Internet. He then called the fleet manager and made the deal over the phone.

I had a schizophrenic reaction to this. Part of me admired the fact that he had outfoxed the dealer. But the car salesman side of me was angry that I never "got a shot at him." It seemed like just a matter of time before people who, in the past, walked onto our car lot, would be on the Internet making deals.

The salesmen are only vaguely aware of this developing trend. I was standing on the curb next to George and we saw one of these high-demand SUVs ready for delivery.

"Another damn Internet sale," George said. "Why don't they turn that car over to us? We'd get a grand over sticker. Instead they're selling it at invoice. Does that make sense?"

As the days passed I noticed more and more cars marked "carsdirect.com." And as I approached people on the car lot they often informed me that they were here to see the fleet manager.

More Internet customers.
**************************************************
Thus USAA Buyer's Service.

[Herk7769]

I had to stop reading.
I was getting nauseous.

I will NEVER, EVER, go into a dealership as unprepared as the "customers" he dealt with in the article.

My next door neighbor is the Used Car Manager at a local "foreign" car dealership (can't say which one in case he ever finds out). He is the guy "in the tower" who calls those shots.

Going out to dinner with them is always a chore, but man you should hear him talk. He keeps telling me to drop in and he will "Do Me A Deal" on a new "car." Even though he is a neighbor, I have no doubt the "Do Me" part will be the only thing he said that was true.

[Herk7769]

Oh, another tidbit!

********************************************
From my commission check it was clear that the minivan couple could have made a better deal and saved several thousand dollars. So where did they go wrong? Well, first of all, they negotiated as monthly payment buyers, rather than bargaining on the purchase price of the vehicle. When you agree to be a "monthly payment buyer" several variables are introduced that are harder to keep track of: the term of the loan can be extended up to 72 months (six years!) without your awareness and the interest rate can be raised. When you bargain on purchase price, it is a cleaner, simpler way of negotiating.

**********************************************

I think I mentioned that somewhere.

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by herk7769

Thanks Bobby!

I am only half way through the article and I am ROLLING on the floor!

The key for me was:
************************************************** ****
"Three hundred below invoice," he smugly answered.

I asked how he did it. He said he checked prices on the Internet. He then called the fleet manager and made the deal over the phone.

I had a schizophrenic reaction to this. Part of me admired the fact that he had outfoxed the dealer. But the car salesman side of me was angry that I never "got a shot at him." It seemed like just a matter of time before people who, in the past, walked onto our car lot, would be on the Internet making deals.

The salesmen are only vaguely aware of this developing trend. I was standing on the curb next to George and we saw one of these high-demand SUVs ready for delivery.

"Another damn Internet sale," George said. "Why don't they turn that car over to us? We'd get a grand over sticker. Instead they're selling it at invoice. Does that make sense?"

As the days passed I noticed more and more cars marked "carsdirect.com." And as I approached people on the car lot they often informed me that they were here to see the fleet manager.

More Internet customers.
**************************************************
Thus USAA Buyer's Service.

Yeah, the original article was written in 2001. There is a link on the opening page, where it was updated to 2009.

"Confessions of a Car Salesman" Updated for 2009 - Edmunds.com

Some of the updated statements were:

But there must be a lot of people using the Internet whether they go through the fleet department or just do a lot of research.
For savvier shoppers accessing sites like Edmunds.com, the buying process is getting more transparent all the time. A few hours' research translates into a much better deal for you. For shoppers who lack experience and knowledge about financing, rebates and hold-backs — and don't take advantage of true-market pricing resources — well, those are just the customers that the sales guys are waiting for.

Speaking of butts in seats... How did you get people into the dealership?
Balloons...those ones you see bobbing over the cars and trucks as you drive by the auto mall. Before selling cars, I had no idea of the importance afforded them for attracting passers-by.


Are there even going to be car salesmen much longer?
Good question. It's sad because a good salesman is valuable. But it's tough to survive in that system. And expectations have changed. Consumers want to buy everything online these days, just like they do with their music and movies and books. They're thinking, "Why can't you just order a car online and have it show up in your driveway?"

[Herk7769]

Confessions of a Car Salesman - Edmunds.com

NOW I know why the fleet manager "wants my truck"
He was just telling me how great the new 3500 Duramax was.

[schrederman]

Amazing... For whatever reason, I've never come away from a car deal feeling ripped off. The dealer has to make money or he's not going to sell the vehicle, and I don't mind that. But to keep me from paying too much, I go in and first establish the price of the vehicle... then the trade-in-value negotiations begin... then the financing negotiations... they hate me. I always demand copies of the negotiated prices. If they won't give me a copy, I walk and wait for them to call... having made my own notes as to the prices involved. I usually take about 3 months to buy a car. My last TT buy took 5 weeks. However, I bought my last truck in a day, because my current employer has what is known as the "X" Plan with Ford. I couldn't have negotiated it down that far... so why try? The only negotiations were for my trade-in value. I was prepared with a NADA printout of it's value. They tried to "steal" it as described in the article, but that didn't work. I let them give me an extra $1,000- off because I financed through Ford Motor Credit. The loan cost me $110- because I had to keep it 90 days. On day 91, I paid it off... saving $890- of the original discount. I have always been prepared to walk on a deal and never look back. Dealers are not prepared for that. They are trained to make the sale some kind of emotional thing and to keep you from thinking rationally. These guys are truly slick, and you have to watch them very carefully. Take your time and ask questions, especially when you are signing the final sales/finance agreement. I've had the finance manager try to slip things into the contract on every car I ever bought. They don't like to be called down and forced to remove things that I didn't agree to. They don't like it when I take an hour to read and understand everything, either.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by schrederman

The dealer has to make money or he's not going to sell the vehicle, and I don't mind that.

Believe me they make money on EVERY sale. I just don't want to be the "Fish" that pays for the salesman's Aspen Vacation.

[prof_fate]

Originally Posted by herk7769

Confessions of a Car Salesman - Edmunds.com

NOW I know why the fleet manager "wants my truck"
He was just telling me how great the new 3500 Duramax was.

Sales isn't a 'dirty word' - I wish my experiences with insurance 'salespeople' were more like the link you have there - actually trying to sell you something.

Just reviewed my business insurance and found out my studio (sep building on my property) isn't covered by them - or my homeowners insurance. Which then canceled me because I have a business here...which the agent has known about since 2007...so i've essentially had no homeowners insurance for 5 years.

As for my cars...i use them for business so it gets weird - trailers are covered in motion (for at least liability). Unless of course, you have a regular car policy and a business only trailer...

I did find out that camping trailers are covered on my homeowners when parked here (for at least a nominal amount). Well, will be when my homeowners policy is back in force...

At least I understand car shopping!

As to my trailer...I believe we could have gotten it for $1000 or 1500 less IF we were willing to shop, travel, etc. Next time we may do that, but this time we're a first time buyer, had yet to get a tow vehicle so the free winter storage and free delivery to our house had some value to us.

I also liked being able to see and touch our specific unit before talking price, etc. It was the trailer at the show so it had been checked over and used a bit vs something just dropped on their lot and handed over a few days later. And should any issues arise (none have, been a year now) a local business in the same state is a lot easier to put pressure on than some mega dealer 2 states over.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by prof_fate

Sales isn't a 'dirty word'.

You ARE kidding right?

Of course, it is a dirty word. For every honest, helpful, BROKE or FIRED salesman out there; there are a hundred crooked, evil, conniving, lying SoBs. The rep is well earned.

Don't get me started on Insurance salesman. How they sleep at night is beyond me. If you ever had one sell you a "Whole Life" policy or an "Annuity" you got ripped by Satan. If you ever had one sell you Whole Life on your child, it was by one of Satan's Spawn.

Did I mention "salesman" IS a dirty word.

[MilCop4523]

Originally Posted by herk7769

You ARE kidding right?

Of course, it is a dirty word. For every honest, helpful, BROKE or FIRED salesman out there; there are a hundred crooked, evil, conniving, lying SoBs. The rep is well earned.

Did I mention "salesman" IS a dirty word.

Honest Salesman/woman
Happliy Married
Friendly divorce
Cheap Mechanic
Military Inteligence
Jumbo Shrimp

its all the same difference

[schrederman]

I have to say, I've known some honest salespeople. Their reputations got them more business than they could handle... and they didn't have to do a lot do schmooooozing... They're actually a rare breed. But they actually DO exist.

[Hob]

Originally Posted by herk7769

You ARE kidding right?

Of course, it is a dirty word. For every honest, helpful, BROKE or FIRED salesman out there; there are a hundred crooked, evil, conniving, lying SoBs. The rep is well earned.

Don't get me started on Insurance salesman. How they sleep at night is beyond me. If you ever had one sell you a "Whole Life" policy or an "Annuity" you got ripped by Satan. If you ever had one sell you Whole Life on your child, it was by one of Satan's Spawn.

Did I mention "salesman" IS a dirty word.

Sounds as if you like the salesmen as much as I like Lippert frames.

[prof_fate]

Watching a good salesman is great entertainment - it really is. Most suck at it. Many are just order takers and too many don't know their product or their industry.

A salesperson helps the buyer get what they want. That can be done without lying, cheating, stealing, etc.

You go into a part store to get a widget. A good salesperson will know you also need widget gasket or a special tool and bring that up - "do you have the left handed metric crescent wrench for that widget?" and you answer yes or no and they leave it at that.
If you don't know you needed it and make the 20 min trip home only to discover such you were not well served, were you?
So is his suggesting the wrench or gasket or lube or what have you 'sales' or 'service'?
A good salesperson asks questions - how do you plan to use your new car/trailer/widget? How many /often/where will you camp/tow/widge? etc.

Salespeople make people happy - when they do their job right.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by prof_fate

Most suck at it. Many are just order takers and too many don't know their product or their industry. A salesperson helps the buyer get what they want. That can be done without lying, cheating, stealing, etc.

Yep; I could not agree more. When you find one, they (like a good mechanic, or a good lawyer, or a good Shaman, or a good doctor, or a good dentist, or a good cop, or a good campground, etc) are a gem without price.

But there are so many in the other camp (trying to "give" as little as possible; while taking all that they can) that they give the profession as a whole a bad name. So is salesman a dirty word?

Yep.

Any chance that this will change any time soon?

Nope.

Pirates of the Caribbean - YouTube

[Malco]

When we were looking to buy a new trailer last year we went to the dealer in our area and looked at what we wanted,asked the price,he told us and we said we would think about it.He asked if we had a trade and he told us what he would give us for that.I felt it was extremely low so we said we would think about that as well.As we were leaving he said he would drop his price $2000.We went home and by the time we got there he had emailed asking what we had decided.
That day I found a small used car dealer that also sold trailers he brought up from the States.I emailed him,told him what we were looking for and within a day he sent me pics of one he could get.My wife didn't like the interior colour so he sent me some of another.We liked this one very much so we asked the price.He was $9250 cheaper than the original price of the local dealership.
Meanwhile the local dealer had emailed again and had dropped his price another $2000 dollars by me not responding.I finally responded and told him about the deal I was working on.He got quite nasty and said good luck trying to get it serviced in NS where it would be considered an American bought trailer.He later emailed and dropped his price another $2000 dollars.By this time he was only $3250 dollars away from the cheaper price and the lack of service thing was bothering my wife so I told the car dealer we would probably buy locally.Hesaid we would have no trouble getting service,so I told him we would let him know the next day.Meanwhile the local dealer called me and said he had good news that the owner had said to drop the price by another $2500 dollars.He said do we have a deal.This left him only $750 more.But by this time I was just feeling scammed because when we went looking in the first place he ha said "how can I make this deal happen"? I said by giving us the best price you can.Feeling the way I did I told him we were going to get the one from the car dealer.Well he got very angry and said we would have no warranty and that there service must be worth the extra $750 and blah blah blah so I said goodby and and called the other guy and ordered our trailer.
About a weak later our trailer arrived from Detroit and it was even nicer than the one we had been looking at here.I put our old trailer on Kijiji and got $4000 dollars more than what we were offered by the dealer here.So that was a pretax savings of $9250 on the purchase and $4000 more for our trailer.
Then about a weak later the local dealer emailed and asked if we were still in the market for a new trailer,that his boss had told him to do whatever it took to make this deal happen. I never responded.Why don't they just give you the best price they can at the start?