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12-10-2010, 03:35 PM
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#21
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Infractee
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 796
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scubieman
I do have the 5.3 motor. I am unsure of gear ratio. Sadly I don't have the money to fix the gear ratio or get new truck if that will help. I mean I do tow it about 7 hours. The wind was bad unless I tailgated a semi. The hills weren't terrible bad they did slow me from about 74 down to 65 maybe 60 depending on hill.
I just ran 3rd all times to hopefully prevent tranny failure and truck did not get hot at all. I think it's just my gearing is horrible.
The truck says 7000 GVWR and trailer is about 5500 dry or 7200 max weight. I just bought it so it was closer to dry weight.
I could bring it to the local trucker scales but even if it says Im way over. I am unsure how to correct it without being expensive
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You do know what GVWR is, right? You have mentioned it and what you think the trailer weighs twice now so I just wanted to be sure you knew.
GVWR is NOT how much weight the truck can tow.
GVWR is the BASE weight of the truck, plus all of the options installed, (4WD, accessories and such) fuel and a driver PLUS the payload. Payload can consist of, your friends and family and their stuff or whatever you are hauling in the cab or in the bed or a combination of both.
Base weight + options/accessories + Payload = Gross Vehicle Weight, and in your case the total needs to be <7K
Now, you need to find out what the truck weighs with just you and fuel in it, subtract that number from the GVWR and that will leave you with the usable weight, or payload. Then weigh the truck again full of friends/family/ camping stuff/bikes/firewood/compressors/generators/gascans/etc etc and that will tell you what you have for a total.
Hopefully you are still <7K.
Next, you need to find out the tongue weight of the trailer, when you do, add it to the payload. Be careful here, this is where most people with heavy trailers and "marginal" 1/2 tons (and even some 3/4 tons) go above not only the GVWR but over the GAWR of the rear axle of the truck.
You need to check your door placard that tells you GVWR, it will also tell you GAWR Front & Rear. You may also want to find the GCWR, depending on how it was equipped from factory, this number may be a deal killer.
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12-10-2010, 04:27 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocus
If you have the 5.3, I don't see why you can't pull it at a reasonable speed. There is no need to go 75 miles an hour. You may be just imagining that it is lugging, or maybe your exhaust is plugged?
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The problem is anything below 55 I need 2nd gear and it will be running very high RPM. anything about 60 I run 3rd but has not quite hit the power band for 3rd. So I need to run 3rd plus get my rpm up so I got the power to do the job.
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12-10-2010, 04:31 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RhoZeta
You do know what GVWR is, right? You have mentioned it and what you think the trailer weighs twice now so I just wanted to be sure you knew.
GVWR is NOT how much weight the truck can tow.
GVWR is the BASE weight of the truck, plus all of the options installed, (4WD, accessories and such) fuel and a driver PLUS the payload. Payload can consist of, your friends and family and their stuff or whatever you are hauling in the cab or in the bed or a combination of both.
Base weight + options/accessories + Payload = Gross Vehicle Weight, and in your case the total needs to be <7K
Now, you need to find out what the truck weighs with just you and fuel in it, subtract that number from the GVWR and that will leave you with the usable weight, or payload. Then weigh the truck again full of friends/family/ camping stuff/bikes/firewood/compressors/generators/gascans/etc etc and that will tell you what you have for a total.
Hopefully you are still <7K.
Next, you need to find out the tongue weight of the trailer, when you do, add it to the payload. Be careful here, this is where most people with heavy trailers and "marginal" 1/2 tons (and even some 3/4 tons) go above not only the GVWR but over the GAWR of the rear axle of the truck.
You need to check your door placard that tells you GVWR, it will also tell you GAWR Front & Rear. You may also want to find the GCWR, depending on how it was equipped from factory, this number may be a deal killer.
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Thanks for reply. It sounds like I have a few numbers and a couple trips to the scale in my future. Only problem is if im over not much I can do now. My first year camping I will probably stick with short drives.
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12-10-2010, 05:47 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 126
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The first year my 1500 truch told me that it would pull the TT, but it didn't like it.
This was on some what flat lands of Kansas.
I found a good deal on a 2500 hd truck. This past summer I it took to the hills, flats and mountains in stride.
Now I go where I want, when I want.
I also drive 65 mph for safety and not fighting traffic.
__________________
Life is something to do when you've finished breakfast
Chuck & Margie
Both Retired
08 2500HD Silverado 6.6L Duramax
Flagstaff 829fkss
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12-10-2010, 05:52 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Round Mound of Sound
The first year my 1500 truch told me that it would pull the TT, but it didn't like it.
This was on some what flat lands of Kansas.
I found a good deal on a 2500 hd truck. This past summer I it took to the hills, flats and mountains in stride.
Now I go where I want, when I want.
I also drive 65 mph for safety and not fighting traffic.
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Thanks for rubbing it in. Not only you got a 2500 HD but it's a diesel
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12-10-2010, 05:54 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 1,283
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"The problem is anything below 55 I need 2nd gear and it will be running very high RPM. anything about 60 I run 3rd but has not quite hit the power band for 3rd. So I need to run 3rd plus get my rpm up so I got the power to do the job."
Then you either need a bigger truck or a smaller camper. If the camper is too heavy to pull in 3rd gear, then it is too heavy for your truck. You are not safe, and a danger to everyone on the road.
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12-10-2010, 06:12 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocus
"The problem is anything below 55 I need 2nd gear and it will be running very high RPM. anything about 60 I run 3rd but has not quite hit the power band for 3rd. So I need to run 3rd plus get my rpm up so I got the power to do the job."
Then you either need a bigger truck or a smaller camper. If the camper is too heavy to pull in 3rd gear, then it is too heavy for your truck. You are not safe, and a danger to everyone on the road.
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I could be wrong. but I think a gearing change will be good enough.
I mean it surely will not be as nice as a 2500 or diesel. But I mean the hills it does alright. I do slow down but that is expected as i think. A bigger motor won't hurt, well besides the check book.
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12-10-2010, 06:33 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 517
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Another question? Anyone switch up gas type. I run the cheapest which I think is 87 with 10% ethanol. Would premium with octane boost help?
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12-10-2010, 09:05 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: ONTARIO, CANADA
Posts: 367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scubieman
Thanks for reply. It sounds like I have a few numbers and a couple trips to the scale in my future. Only problem is if im over not much I can do now. My first year camping I will probably stick with short drives.
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You can cheat a little and install smaller diameter tires... You will find online calculators to determine the effective gear ratio. An overall numerically higher effective gear ratio ( i.e. 3.73 instead of 3.55 ) will allow a higher highway rpm (which might allow you to stay in 4th?). Just be sure that you do NOT choose tires that are not in the proper load range. find your GAWR (gross axle weight rating) and make sure your tires are good for at least this. Sure your speedo may be off (mine actually corrected to the same reading as the gps) but as I mentioned you can check this with a gps to know exact numbers. I'm sure there are people on this forum that have tried the same thing with the same type of setup...
happy camping,
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12-10-2010, 09:17 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 1,283
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"I could be wrong. but I think a gearing change will be good enough."
I don't think you are understanding your problem. You were saying that you were running at high rpm and your mileage was terrible. So you want to put in a steeper gear which will make your engine rev even higher?
There is something fundamentally wrong with your setup. If you don't have the power to pull your trailer at those rpms, then you don't have the braking power to stop it safely either, and you likely don't have the suspension to keep the rig under control in a panic situation. You are a danger to everyone on the road.
Get a better tv or get a smaller trailer. I hate to be rude, but you are endangering the lives of others.
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12-10-2010, 09:36 PM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: ONTARIO, CANADA
Posts: 367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocus
"I could be wrong. but I think a gearing change will be good enough."
I don't think you are understanding your problem. You were saying that you were running at high rpm and your mileage was terrible. So you want to put in a steeper gear which will make your engine rev even higher?
There is something fundamentally wrong with your setup. If you don't have the power to pull your trailer at those rpms, then you don't have the braking power to stop it safely either, and you likely don't have the suspension to keep the rig under control in a panic situation. You are a danger to everyone on the road.
Get a better tv or get a smaller trailer. I hate to be rude, but you are endangering the lives of others.
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I hate to be rude also but... last time I checked pulling power had nothing to do with stopping power. Trailers have their own brakes... assumptions about this fellow's suspension are unfounded as is assumptions about his setup. He is complaining of not being able to find the right gearing to prevent excessive downshifting. I don't recall any conversation about towing stability... " a danger to everyone" seems to be a brazen statement to me with the info provided.
just my 2 cents,
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12-10-2010, 09:42 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 1,283
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He did state on another board that when he stands on the rear bumper, it sinks "a couple of inches". Now maybe he weighs 350, or maybe he has a light duty truck. My truck sinks 'a couple of inches' with 1600 pounds of trailer on it.
I have simply seen far too many dangerous rigs going down the road, obviously overloaded and dangerous. Poeple do get killed in these rigs, and I have witnessed the wrecks personally.
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12-10-2010, 09:58 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: ONTARIO, CANADA
Posts: 367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocus
He did state on another board that when he stands on the rear bumper, it sinks "a couple of inches". Now maybe he weighs 350, or maybe he has a light duty truck. My truck sinks 'a couple of inches' with 1600 pounds of trailer on it.
I have simply seen far too many dangerous rigs going down the road, obviously overloaded and dangerous. Poeple do get killed in these rigs, and I have witnessed the wrecks personally.
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I too have seen many really bad setups. I am trying to point out that we haven't seen his setup and we shouldn't jump to conclusions.
Maybe he will answer some questions; does he have w.d. setup, sway control etc.?
All too many times I have seen people in trucks with the headlights shooting to the the heavens because they don't have the proper setup (they have a truck so they don't need all that fancy stuff...).
I'm sure you just wanted to emphasize that his setup should be a safe one.
Happy (and most importantly), safe camping,
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12-11-2010, 09:55 AM
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#34
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Posts: 9,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scubieman
The problem is anything below 55 I need 2nd gear and it will be running very high RPM. anything about 60 I run 3rd but has not quite hit the power band for 3rd. So I need to run 3rd plus get my rpm up so I got the power to do the job.
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With the 5.3 engine, and the proper final drive, that truck should pull that camper just fine. That is why I am wondering about the gearing.
With my 5.4L and 3.73 gears, the only time my truck shifts to second is going up step mountain passes........or if I am not paying attention in cruise control with the AC on, sometime on hilly roads at 55 mph....that is why I seldom use cruise control.
__________________
Chap , DW Joy, and Fur Baby Sango
2017 F350 Lariat CCSB, SRW, 4x4, 6.7 PS
2017 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
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12-11-2010, 11:29 AM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 277
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Scubieman
if you have the GM LM7 engine (most common engine) you are looking at 295hp@5200RPM and 335ft-lbs tq@4000RPM - it looks like your engine does its work at the over 4000 rpm range by design. If it were my truck I would make sure I have the best fluids I could find (oil,Trans,Diff,t-case, coolant etc) and run it as designed - BTW I like to tow at 55 running the engine just below peak torque RPM
regards
sr.
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12-11-2010, 11:40 AM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scubieman
I finally got my first TT and found out it loves wind! I may have to nickname it “My Sail”. Anyways I have 2005 GMC sierra 1500 which is 4 speed tranny. I found that running in 4th gear it falls on its face and no power in wind or with no wind. I found running in 3rd is best choice even though some hills it will slow way down. I run about 2600 to 3000 RPM in third. The kicker is I have to be above 55 miles a hour or my power range is horrible and maybe have to go down into second. My truck is 7000 GVWR and camper is 5500 dry.
Okay the question is here? First of all am I beating on my truck or just towing nice and heavy? Or is this normal with a 1500 truck.
Second is how do others drive in wind? Do you prefer to go easy on truck? Or its fine to push it hard. Any info to ease my mind that this is okay for my truck ?
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All trailers are hard to tow in the wind. Fact of life. Unless you've got a monster tow rig.
http://www.extendedgmwarranty.com/ow...GMC-Sierra.pdf
Download and have a look at that.
Read the last paragraph on page 4-70. Your dry weight is already 500 lbs above the trailering package requirement. Note that is says REQUIRED. That means you are not safe if you do not have the option package and pulling your particular trailer. Your vehicle is already outside it's designed limits if the option is not on your truck. Check the RPO codes in your glove box label to see if you have it.
You may have a problem waiting to happen since you're over the 5000 lb trailer package requirement weight already. I'm willing to bet your loaded trailer weight (food, clothes, water, stuff, etc) is at least 1000-1500 lbs over the 5000 lb limit.
Go here : GM-Trucks.com*|* RPO Code Lookup :to decode the rpo codes. You can find out everything from rear axle ratio's to interior trim from the rpo codes.
Then look at all of page 4-71 to 4-81 and see where you sit.
After all that, go back and read 4-68 to 4-98 inclusive for the rest of the basic vehicle trailering knowledge you need.
for a frame of reference, my 98 k2500 with a 6.5 turbo diesel and 4:11 rear gears tows my 2011 Flagstaff classic super lite 831rlbss fairly well and that has a 6300 lbs dry weight/8400 lbs gvw. My truck is rated up to 10,000 lbs trailering with a WD hitch.
But I also keep it around 55 mph, and slower when crossing mountain passes. Any faster and it begins to struggle. It also will drive my egt's (and ECT's) into the danger zone if I sustain over 55 mph for a prolonged period of time.
You need to slow down.
You also may not have enough truck for your trailer depending on it's options. It's hard to say about your specific truck without knowing the options and ratings, but you sound pretty close to the max ratings for a K1500.
That means it's going to be working hard when towing and maxed out everywhere.
That means not only power. That means brakes, suspension, etc.......
__________________
2011 Flagstaff Classic Superlight 831RLBSS "Atrium slide"
Husky Centerline Hitch
2016 Ford F-150 EcoBoost SuperCrew, Lariat Sport, Max Tow package
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12-14-2010, 12:22 PM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 280
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have a 2006 2500 Chev with the 6.0 and (I think) 4.13 rear. It runs about 3000 rpm in 3rd. at 65 mph. Wayne
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12-14-2010, 07:00 PM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 517
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You guys are right. I do go faster to maintain the RPM curve. The gearing should be corrected. I have decided one of two things. go with a near by campgrounds/ get a membership and park at park year a round/ or a new truck. I guess time will tell which I will do. I like the new truck idea.
Sidenote. I can stop just fine. I can get camper up to 45 mph easy after this is kind of a pain.
Repeat. I can stop fine. I have 4 brakes on truck which weights about 6000 pounds. And the TT that weights 5500 has 4 more brakes.
__________________
2009 Dodge Ram Mega Cab 2500 6.7 cummins
2011 Forest River Cherokee 28BHKS
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12-14-2010, 09:33 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 662
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Simple numbers alone:
Unless you have the "trailer package" on your 1500, you're already 500 lbs over the manufactures recommended weight in your trailer's dry weight.
That's simply straight from the users manual for your year truck and your quoted trailer weights.
Loaded weight is probably more like 1000-1500 lbs over.
Your truck is outside of it's designed parameters.
You may be able to pull it, you may be able to stop it and in may not sway on the highways. So far that is.....
But get into an accident and insurance will not cover you and the courts will rake you over the coals if anyone you injure/cause damage to finds out you were in such a condition.
Your choice.......just be aware you're also making that choice for everyone else on the road with you.
Your options of a seasonal site or a better tow vehicle are both good decisions.
__________________
2011 Flagstaff Classic Superlight 831RLBSS "Atrium slide"
Husky Centerline Hitch
2016 Ford F-150 EcoBoost SuperCrew, Lariat Sport, Max Tow package
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12-14-2010, 09:43 PM
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#40
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Full time
Posts: 18
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[QUOTE=great white;74739]Simple numbers alone:
....
But get into an accident and insurance will not cover you and the courts will rake you over the coals if anyone you injure/cause damage to finds out you were in such a condition.
I agree the OP is probably overweight but on forum after forum people state the above but can never site an article or any case law to prove that is actually true.
__________________
2008 Dodge Ram 3500 DRW 4x4 2008 Cedar Creek 36RLTS. Full Time RV'R
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