Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-21-2017, 09:19 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 157
Trying to trade toy haulers w/Camping World...

So we have a 16 Puma Unleashed 351 THSS that is ok, but we love the new Wolf Pack 325 Pack 13..... So I reach out to CW and start the process. What a joke!!!
Their negotiation process makes me not want a new hauler now. Once the poor kid realized that I've been in the car business for 27 years he now want give me a break down on #s. From day 1 I knew what #s would turn into what interest rate, payment and term so I started off a total carry back to the bank offer. The sales manager he has to work with catches on to my every move and keeps changing the way they tell me the #s in hopes I will cave in.

I'm sick of being treated like a moron, want what I want, and if the $ is right, I will buy it!!! Why does this have to be so danged hard???

Then the moron tells me the banks like to see big down payments aft r I told him from day 1 we JUST got done building a new 5500 sq ft house and all the savings accounts are killed at the moment......

My wife and I aren't rich by any means, but no kids and combined 170k yr income. We like to play. And this requires big down payments???

Thanks for letting me vent...... Why did I give CW a try.........
__________________

gilwilliams101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2017, 09:25 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 139
Post you blueprints. I'm interested in your home layout.

And that toy hauler ordeal stinks as well...

Wife and I bought an 07 Charger new. We literally sat there with our arms folded after every one of their counter offers. The last offer they made was 30k @ 9% I finally unfolded my arms and dialed my dad's phone number. I put him on the spot, on speaker. He was completely unprepared for my call. I told him they were offering 30k @9% and I asked him if that was good. He asked me if my wife was with me on speaker. I told him yeah. He told me to make sure her and I got out of there as fast as I could.

We were walking out when the finance manager ran out from behind the curtain and offered 28k with 4.99%. That was a listed price of $38,999. She just turned over 100,000.

My next car, my TV, was a Carmax purchase. Even though it was slightly used it was the most painless car buying experience ever. Since then I haven't found anywhere easier to buy from...except Dave Smith motors. I called them earlier this year and I was absolutely shocked at their lowest and only offer. I plan on buying next year
__________________

__________________
2008 Toyota Sequoia SR5 5.7L 10k tow package
2017 Rockwood 2702WS
Equal-i-zer 4 point, Prodigy 3 brake controller

2016 nights camped = 17
2017 nights camped = 4
Chpusmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2017, 10:40 AM   #3
Grammar Pedant
 
67L48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Frederick, CO
Posts: 1,309
This shouldn't be difficult. There are 3 components to the deal, and they're not related.

1) Trade in. The value of the trade in is based on the vehicle being traded in. It has nothing to do with the purchase price of whatever else you might be buying. And, you'll take a beating. If your car is worth $7K, you'll get around $4K ... because you're not selling to the end customer. It's the old time vs money trade-off. You either have the time to prep and sell your exiting item and get more money ... or, you can't be bothered to wait and hassle with the sale and instead sacrifice money to just get it over with now.

Negotiate the trade-in as a separate deal. Don't conflate it with the purchase end. Sure, there are some accounting games to be played here, but the ultimate value of the trade-in is market-driven and has nothing to do with your next purchase.

2) New purchase. With all of the online tools out there, it is easy to find the true MSRP, the dealer invoice, and what other people are paying. Thus, you should have an extremely firm grasp on your own monetized value of the new vehicle. Start there. End there. There aren't really any negotiations. There's no low-ball offer, there are no games. You have your price and that's it.

Why would you pay more than what you value the item at? Why would a dealership sell for less than they value the item at? There's either an agreement on value or there isn't. If there is, deal. If there isn't, walk.

And, talk in terms of price, not payments. Don't be silly. The price is the price is the price. And, you'll find the price at the bottom of the sheet, not the top, inclusive of prep fees, doc fees, getting a cup of coffee fees, and anything else the dealer slides in there.

And, none of that matters. Doesn't matter if it's a $25,000 trailer with $600 in fees vs. $25,600 trailer with $0 fees vs. a free trailer with $25,600 in fees. Yes, there are some slight tax differences, but don't get caught up in how the dealer decides to slice and dice these costs. Again, you have valued the trailer at your price. That's the bottom line -- you'll pay that price, plus whatever the state/county/city needs for taxes/title/registration. Whatever accounting nonsense the dealer wants to do with allocating this price against the real property vs fees is his business.

3) Finance. Same as the purchase -- with all of the online tools out there, it is easy to find common rates and if there are any incentives. You should already have your financing settled before you step foot in a dealership of any kind. Then, if they want, the dealership can meet/beat that deal, but your experience is super easy.

All of this is on the buyer. It's up to you to be informed and disciplined. If you're savvy enough to be online reading these forums, you're savvy enough to be well equipped walking into a dealership of any kind. Nobody should ever be sitting at a salesman's desk dickering over prices, looking prospective payments, trying to interpret finance rates, or anything else.

Good luck.
__________________
Every time you use an apostrophe to make a word plural, a puppy dies.

RV: 2018 Rockwood Mini Lite 2504S
TV: 2019 F-350 Lariat 4WD CCSB 6.7 PSD 3.55, 3,591 lb payload
Former RV: 2007 Fleetwood/Coleman Utah
Former TV: 2005 F-150 King Ranch 4WD SCrew 5.4L Tow Package
67L48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2017, 11:11 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
SlowrideHD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 641
You've been in the car business for 27 years and are surprised at how you were treated???
__________________

2016 F350 CC Dually Powerstroke 4x4
2014 Cedar Creek 34RLSA w/Level Up
2007 HD Ultra Classic 103
SlowrideHD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2017, 09:42 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
clarkbre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowrideHD View Post
You've been in the car business for 27 years and are surprised at how you were treated???
An Eye for an Eye Makes the Whole World Blind!!!

After reading all this, I agree with 67L48. It's simple to break it down into 3 areas that are truly seperate.

1. Trade in value
2. Price of new trailer
3. Financing...this I would recommend using a 3rd party. Walking in with financing eliminates that step for the dealer and then it comes down to if they want to sell a trailer or not that day.

gilwilliams101: Can you turn this thread into some of your best tactics to beat the dealer? That would likely help others on this forum.
__________________

2017 Forest River Surveyor 247BHDS...
...Tugged by a 2016 F250 XLT FX4 SuperCrew, Shortbed 6.2L, 4wd, 3.73...
...Joined with a Husky Centerline TS 800-1200lbs WDH
clarkbre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2017, 10:04 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,342
No kids and a 5500 sq ft house. Wow.
__________________
1988 Coleman Sequoia - popup (1987-2009) - outlasted 3 Dodge Grand Caravans!
2012 Roo19 - hybrid (2012-2015)

2016 Mini Lite 2503S - tt (2015 - ???)
2011 Traverse LT, 3.6L, FWD
2009 Silverado 1500 Ext Cab, 5.3L, 4x4, 3.73
2016 Silverado 2500HD Dbl Cab, 6.0L 4x4, 4.10
rockfordroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2017, 10:19 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
gpaw56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: North Central Arkansas
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockfordroo View Post
No kids and a 5500 sq ft house. Wow.
I grew up in a 800sf house. One bathroom. Mom, Dad, two sister's and a brother....
gpaw56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2017, 11:45 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpaw56 View Post
I grew up in a 800sf house. One bathroom. Mom, Dad, two sister's and a brother....
I have 2 story, 3,500, 5 bed 3.5 bath, 4 kids and we want to downsize...i walked through a 3,700 single story, 4 bed, 3 bath house that had a much cooler layout. It seemed smaller then my current house. 5,500, depending on the layout, could be cool, or a nightmare.
__________________
2008 Toyota Sequoia SR5 5.7L 10k tow package
2017 Rockwood 2702WS
Equal-i-zer 4 point, Prodigy 3 brake controller

2016 nights camped = 17
2017 nights camped = 4
Chpusmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2017, 04:58 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Waynesville
Posts: 13,905
Sounds pretty Basic to me,less "Play" and get a second job,this might boost your Income over 170000$ a year! Youroo!!
__________________
youroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2017, 05:30 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
davel1971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Seaford, De
Posts: 2,377
baffled as to why you are surprised when you've been in the car business for 27 years. You should know exactly how the process works. A down payment isn't always required, but if you are upside down in your current unit, it may be required to get you out of the hole. You should also know that being in the business. Sounds like you put yourself in this situation and just want to vent to someone.
__________________
David & Lynn
2014 Coachmen Chaparral Signature 327 RLKS
2016 Ford F350 Lariat CC Dually
davel1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2017, 05:33 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Oaklevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 5,446
Big down payment yes banks like to see that for lower interest, but it is not necessary. Expect a higher interest unless your Puma is paid for.

Find another dealer to compare.


Good Luck !!!!
__________________

2005 Dodge 3500 Cummins
2017 Wildwood Lodge 4092 BFL
1966 Mustang GT
1986 Mustang SVO
Lillie Spoiled Rotten Boxer Mix
Oaklevel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2017, 05:50 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
rmac04401's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Franklin County, PA
Posts: 2,658
I think gilwillims101 has left the building.
__________________
2019 Puma XLE 27QBC Toy Hauler
2005 Honda VTX 1300
2012 Ram 2500 Crew cab 6.5 bed
5.7L Hemi, 3:73 Rear
Ron & Shirley (Empty Nesters)
rmac04401 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2017, 09:40 AM   #13
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 3
Good trade experience

Earlier this year I bought a Wolf Pack 24pack 14 from a local Camping World dealer......didn't have a great experience but it wasn't that bad either. The 24pack 14 was great for just my wife and I but then things changed and our kids got a RZR and come with us all the time. So there I was with a new trailer that really didn't work very well for us. I had discussed trade opportunities with the dealer I purchased from and it did not look promising.....I started to think I was just going to have to tough it out with the 24pack 14 for a while. Then I spotted what I was interested in (25pack 12) that was a nice clean trade in at another Camping World dealer (NOT close to me.....700 miles away LOL). I started with an online inquiry and from there we negotiated back and forth and in the end, it worked out perfectly! I drove 700 miles each way to trade with them and I couldn't be happier! I was very impressed.....they treated me like I was buying a 100K unit and here I was trading used units. They were completely accommodating to a few requests I had and they worked hard to get our deal done early to get us back on the road for our 700 mile trip home. Good trade deals CAN happen! My home dealer was Camping World of Tulsa Oklahoma, and I drove 700 miles each way to trade with Camping World of Richmond Indiana. Couldn't be happier! Good Luck!!!!
Jeff Harper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2017, 10:11 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: West Jordan, UT
Posts: 877
I'm with others, you have been in the car sales industry for 27 years and you were surprised with the treatment/dealings???? Not trying to disrespect you in anyway or say you weren't a good dealer but surely you had heard stories of "bad" dealers in your 27 years......
__________________
2018 XLR Nitro 36T15
2015 GMC 3500 6.6/Allison

Nights Camped (2018-16) (2017-16) (2016-13) (2015-13)
SuicideSaints is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2017, 12:03 PM   #15
Grammar Pedant
 
67L48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Frederick, CO
Posts: 1,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oaklevel View Post
Big down payment yes banks like to see that for lower interest, but it is not necessary. [...]
It's pretty simple economics. Assume you default on your loan after 24 months. The purchase price of the trailer was $35,000 and the used market pays $28,000. These are fixed.

Now, assume you had a $7,000 down payment and financed the rest at 7% over a 15 year loan. That's a payment of about $251/mo. At the point of default, the principle on the loan is $25,731 and the bank has collected a total of $6,040. Even with the costs of repossessing the trailer and selling it off, the bank can be made whole. Loan balance of $25,700 and a street price of $28,000.

Now, assume no down payment, but everything else stays the same. Now, the payment is $314/mo, the amount paid is $7,550, and the principle at time of default is $32,164. This is not good since the trailer is still only worth $28,000. The bank is now upside down on the deal (sort of) and cannot be made whole (sort of).

The only way to mitigate this is to raise the interest rate to try to offset the higher risks associated with default. This is why banks want you to make a down payment -- it transitions the default penalty from them to you.

Good luck.
__________________
Every time you use an apostrophe to make a word plural, a puppy dies.

RV: 2018 Rockwood Mini Lite 2504S
TV: 2019 F-350 Lariat 4WD CCSB 6.7 PSD 3.55, 3,591 lb payload
Former RV: 2007 Fleetwood/Coleman Utah
Former TV: 2005 F-150 King Ranch 4WD SCrew 5.4L Tow Package
67L48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2017, 12:09 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: West Jordan, UT
Posts: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67L48 View Post
It's pretty simple economics. Assume you default on your loan after 24 months. The purchase price of the trailer was $35,000 and the used market pays $28,000. These are fixed.

Now, assume you had a $7,000 down payment and financed the rest at 7% over a 15 year loan. That's a payment of about $251/mo. At the point of default, the principle on the loan is $25,731 and the bank has collected a total of $6,040. Even with the costs of repossessing the trailer and selling it off, the bank can be made whole. Loan balance of $25,700 and a street price of $28,000.

Now, assume no down payment, but everything else stays the same. Now, the payment is $314/mo, the amount paid is $7,550, and the principle at time of default is $32,164. This is not good since the trailer is still only worth $28,000. The bank is now upside down on the deal (sort of) and cannot be made whole (sort of).

The only way to mitigate this is to raise the interest rate to try to offset the higher risks associated with default. This is why banks want you to make a down payment -- it transitions the default penalty from them to you.

Good luck.
I have been trying to explain it like this for years, you say it extremely well!
__________________
2018 XLR Nitro 36T15
2015 GMC 3500 6.6/Allison

Nights Camped (2018-16) (2017-16) (2016-13) (2015-13)
SuicideSaints is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2017, 12:10 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Oaklevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 5,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67L48 View Post
It's pretty simple economics. Assume you default on your loan after 24 months. The purchase price of the trailer was $35,000 and the used market pays $28,000. These are fixed.

Now, assume you had a $7,000 down payment and financed the rest at 7% over a 15 year loan. That's a payment of about $251/mo. At the point of default, the principle on the loan is $25,731 and the bank has collected a total of $6,040. Even with the costs of repossessing the trailer and selling it off, the bank can be made whole. Loan balance of $25,700 and a street price of $28,000.

Now, assume no down payment, but everything else stays the same. Now, the payment is $314/mo, the amount paid is $7,550, and the principle at time of default is $32,164. This is not good since the trailer is still only worth $28,000. The bank is now upside down on the deal (sort of) and cannot be made whole (sort of).

The only way to mitigate this is to raise the interest rate to try to offset the higher risks associated with default. This is why banks want you to make a down payment -- it transitions the default penalty from them to you.

Good luck.
Sorry I do not understand your point. I am just stating that all banks do not require a big down payment or a down payment at all.


__________________

2005 Dodge 3500 Cummins
2017 Wildwood Lodge 4092 BFL
1966 Mustang GT
1986 Mustang SVO
Lillie Spoiled Rotten Boxer Mix
Oaklevel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2017, 12:26 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 4,588
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpaw56 View Post
I grew up in a 800sf house. One bathroom. Mom, Dad, two sister's and a brother....
Wife and I raised 4 kids in a 3 bdrm, 1 bath, no basement 935sqft. house. It wasn't until two of the kids married and moved out that I hired a contractor to lift the house and dig a basement underneath. It was our first house and we still live there today. 33 years and it was paid off 10 years early.
TheWolfPaq82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2017, 12:57 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWolfPaq82 View Post
Wife and I raised 4 kids in a 3 bdrm, 1 bath, no basement 935sqft. house. It wasn't until two of the kids married and moved out that I hired a contractor to lift the house and dig a basement underneath. It was our first house and we still live there today. 33 years and it was paid off 10 years early.
X2, but I had a bath and a half. Our "starter house" and we're still here after 33 yrs, too.
__________________
1988 Coleman Sequoia - popup (1987-2009) - outlasted 3 Dodge Grand Caravans!
2012 Roo19 - hybrid (2012-2015)

2016 Mini Lite 2503S - tt (2015 - ???)
2011 Traverse LT, 3.6L, FWD
2009 Silverado 1500 Ext Cab, 5.3L, 4x4, 3.73
2016 Silverado 2500HD Dbl Cab, 6.0L 4x4, 4.10
rockfordroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2017, 04:13 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 198
...just keep what you have
__________________

latner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
camping, toy hauler

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:40 PM.


×