Trying to trade toy haulers w/Camping World...

[gilwilliams101]

So we have a 16 Puma Unleashed 351 THSS that is ok, but we love the new Wolf Pack 325 Pack 13..... So I reach out to CW and start the process. What a joke!!!
Their negotiation process makes me not want a new hauler now. Once the poor kid realized that I've been in the car business for 27 years he now want give me a break down on #s. From day 1 I knew what #s would turn into what interest rate, payment and term so I started off a total carry back to the bank offer. The sales manager he has to work with catches on to my every move and keeps changing the way they tell me the #s in hopes I will cave in.

I'm sick of being treated like a moron, want what I want, and if the $ is right, I will buy it!!! Why does this have to be so danged hard???

Then the moron tells me the banks like to see big down payments aft r I told him from day 1 we JUST got done building a new 5500 sq ft house and all the savings accounts are killed at the moment......

My wife and I aren't rich by any means, but no kids and combined 170k yr income. We like to play. And this requires big down payments???

Thanks for letting me vent...... Why did I give CW a try.........

[Chpusmc]

Post you blueprints. I'm interested in your home layout.

And that toy hauler ordeal stinks as well...

Wife and I bought an 07 Charger new. We literally sat there with our arms folded after every one of their counter offers. The last offer they made was 30k @ 9% I finally unfolded my arms and dialed my dad's phone number. I put him on the spot, on speaker. He was completely unprepared for my call. I told him they were offering 30k @9% and I asked him if that was good. He asked me if my wife was with me on speaker. I told him yeah. He told me to make sure her and I got out of there as fast as I could.

We were walking out when the finance manager ran out from behind the curtain and offered 28k with 4.99%. That was a listed price of $38,999. She just turned over 100,000.

My next car, my TV, was a Carmax purchase. Even though it was slightly used it was the most painless car buying experience ever. Since then I haven't found anywhere easier to buy from...except Dave Smith motors. I called them earlier this year and I was absolutely shocked at their lowest and only offer. I plan on buying next year

[67L48]

This shouldn't be difficult. There are 3 components to the deal, and they're not related.

1) Trade in. The value of the trade in is based on the vehicle being traded in. It has nothing to do with the purchase price of whatever else you might be buying. And, you'll take a beating. If your car is worth $7K, you'll get around $4K ... because you're not selling to the end customer. It's the old time vs money trade-off. You either have the time to prep and sell your exiting item and get more money ... or, you can't be bothered to wait and hassle with the sale and instead sacrifice money to just get it over with now.

Negotiate the trade-in as a separate deal. Don't conflate it with the purchase end. Sure, there are some accounting games to be played here, but the ultimate value of the trade-in is market-driven and has nothing to do with your next purchase.

2) New purchase. With all of the online tools out there, it is easy to find the true MSRP, the dealer invoice, and what other people are paying. Thus, you should have an extremely firm grasp on your own monetized value of the new vehicle. Start there. End there. There aren't really any negotiations. There's no low-ball offer, there are no games. You have your price and that's it.

Why would you pay more than what you value the item at? Why would a dealership sell for less than they value the item at? There's either an agreement on value or there isn't. If there is, deal. If there isn't, walk.

And, talk in terms of price, not payments. Don't be silly. The price is the price is the price. And, you'll find the price at the bottom of the sheet, not the top, inclusive of prep fees, doc fees, getting a cup of coffee fees, and anything else the dealer slides in there.

And, none of that matters. Doesn't matter if it's a $25,000 trailer with $600 in fees vs. $25,600 trailer with $0 fees vs. a free trailer with $25,600 in fees. Yes, there are some slight tax differences, but don't get caught up in how the dealer decides to slice and dice these costs. Again, you have valued the trailer at your price. That's the bottom line -- you'll pay that price, plus whatever the state/county/city needs for taxes/title/registration. Whatever accounting nonsense the dealer wants to do with allocating this price against the real property vs fees is his business.

3) Finance. Same as the purchase -- with all of the online tools out there, it is easy to find common rates and if there are any incentives. You should already have your financing settled before you step foot in a dealership of any kind. Then, if they want, the dealership can meet/beat that deal, but your experience is super easy.

All of this is on the buyer. It's up to you to be informed and disciplined. If you're savvy enough to be online reading these forums, you're savvy enough to be well equipped walking into a dealership of any kind. Nobody should ever be sitting at a salesman's desk dickering over prices, looking prospective payments, trying to interpret finance rates, or anything else.

Good luck.

[SlowrideHD]

You've been in the car business for 27 years and are surprised at how you were treated???

[clarkbre]

Originally Posted by SlowrideHD

You've been in the car business for 27 years and are surprised at how you were treated???

An Eye for an Eye Makes the Whole World Blind!!!

After reading all this, I agree with 67L48. It's simple to break it down into 3 areas that are truly seperate.

1. Trade in value
2. Price of new trailer
3. Financing...this I would recommend using a 3rd party. Walking in with financing eliminates that step for the dealer and then it comes down to if they want to sell a trailer or not that day.

gilwilliams101: Can you turn this thread into some of your best tactics to beat the dealer? That would likely help others on this forum.

[rockfordroo]

No kids and a 5500 sq ft house. Wow.

[gpaw56]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

No kids and a 5500 sq ft house. Wow.

I grew up in a 800sf house. One bathroom. Mom, Dad, two sister's and a brother....

[Chpusmc]

Originally Posted by gpaw56

I grew up in a 800sf house. One bathroom. Mom, Dad, two sister's and a brother....

I have 2 story, 3,500, 5 bed 3.5 bath, 4 kids and we want to downsize...i walked through a 3,700 single story, 4 bed, 3 bath house that had a much cooler layout. It seemed smaller then my current house. 5,500, depending on the layout, could be cool, or a nightmare.

[youroo]

Sounds pretty Basic to me,less "Play" and get a second job,this might boost your Income over 170000$ a year! Youroo!!

[davel1971]

baffled as to why you are surprised when you've been in the car business for 27 years. You should know exactly how the process works. A down payment isn't always required, but if you are upside down in your current unit, it may be required to get you out of the hole. You should also know that being in the business. Sounds like you put yourself in this situation and just want to vent to someone.

[Oaklevel]

Big down payment yes banks like to see that for lower interest, but it is not necessary. Expect a higher interest unless your Puma is paid for.

Find another dealer to compare.


Good Luck !!!!

[rmac04401]

I think gilwillims101 has left the building.

[Jeff Harper]

Earlier this year I bought a Wolf Pack 24pack 14 from a local Camping World dealer......didn't have a great experience but it wasn't that bad either. The 24pack 14 was great for just my wife and I but then things changed and our kids got a RZR and come with us all the time. So there I was with a new trailer that really didn't work very well for us. I had discussed trade opportunities with the dealer I purchased from and it did not look promising.....I started to think I was just going to have to tough it out with the 24pack 14 for a while. Then I spotted what I was interested in (25pack 12) that was a nice clean trade in at another Camping World dealer (NOT close to me.....700 miles away LOL). I started with an online inquiry and from there we negotiated back and forth and in the end, it worked out perfectly! I drove 700 miles each way to trade with them and I couldn't be happier! I was very impressed.....they treated me like I was buying a 100K unit and here I was trading used units. They were completely accommodating to a few requests I had and they worked hard to get our deal done early to get us back on the road for our 700 mile trip home. Good trade deals CAN happen! My home dealer was Camping World of Tulsa Oklahoma, and I drove 700 miles each way to trade with Camping World of Richmond Indiana. Couldn't be happier! Good Luck!!!!

[SuicideSaints]

I'm with others, you have been in the car sales industry for 27 years and you were surprised with the treatment/dealings???? Not trying to disrespect you in anyway or say you weren't a good dealer but surely you had heard stories of "bad" dealers in your 27 years......

[67L48]

Originally Posted by Oaklevel

Big down payment yes banks like to see that for lower interest, but it is not necessary. [...]

It's pretty simple economics. Assume you default on your loan after 24 months. The purchase price of the trailer was $35,000 and the used market pays $28,000. These are fixed.

Now, assume you had a $7,000 down payment and financed the rest at 7% over a 15 year loan. That's a payment of about $251/mo. At the point of default, the principle on the loan is $25,731 and the bank has collected a total of $6,040. Even with the costs of repossessing the trailer and selling it off, the bank can be made whole. Loan balance of $25,700 and a street price of $28,000.

Now, assume no down payment, but everything else stays the same. Now, the payment is $314/mo, the amount paid is $7,550, and the principle at time of default is $32,164. This is not good since the trailer is still only worth $28,000. The bank is now upside down on the deal (sort of) and cannot be made whole (sort of).

The only way to mitigate this is to raise the interest rate to try to offset the higher risks associated with default. This is why banks want you to make a down payment -- it transitions the default penalty from them to you.

Good luck.

[SuicideSaints]

Originally Posted by 67L48

It's pretty simple economics. Assume you default on your loan after 24 months. The purchase price of the trailer was $35,000 and the used market pays $28,000. These are fixed.

Now, assume you had a $7,000 down payment and financed the rest at 7% over a 15 year loan. That's a payment of about $251/mo. At the point of default, the principle on the loan is $25,731 and the bank has collected a total of $6,040. Even with the costs of repossessing the trailer and selling it off, the bank can be made whole. Loan balance of $25,700 and a street price of $28,000.

Now, assume no down payment, but everything else stays the same. Now, the payment is $314/mo, the amount paid is $7,550, and the principle at time of default is $32,164. This is not good since the trailer is still only worth $28,000. The bank is now upside down on the deal (sort of) and cannot be made whole (sort of).

The only way to mitigate this is to raise the interest rate to try to offset the higher risks associated with default. This is why banks want you to make a down payment -- it transitions the default penalty from them to you.

Good luck.

I have been trying to explain it like this for years, you say it extremely well!

[Oaklevel]

Originally Posted by 67L48

It's pretty simple economics. Assume you default on your loan after 24 months. The purchase price of the trailer was $35,000 and the used market pays $28,000. These are fixed.

Now, assume you had a $7,000 down payment and financed the rest at 7% over a 15 year loan. That's a payment of about $251/mo. At the point of default, the principle on the loan is $25,731 and the bank has collected a total of $6,040. Even with the costs of repossessing the trailer and selling it off, the bank can be made whole. Loan balance of $25,700 and a street price of $28,000.

Now, assume no down payment, but everything else stays the same. Now, the payment is $314/mo, the amount paid is $7,550, and the principle at time of default is $32,164. This is not good since the trailer is still only worth $28,000. The bank is now upside down on the deal (sort of) and cannot be made whole (sort of).

The only way to mitigate this is to raise the interest rate to try to offset the higher risks associated with default. This is why banks want you to make a down payment -- it transitions the default penalty from them to you.

Good luck.

Sorry I do not understand your point. I am just stating that all banks do not require a big down payment or a down payment at all.

[TheWolfPaq82]

Originally Posted by gpaw56

I grew up in a 800sf house. One bathroom. Mom, Dad, two sister's and a brother....

Wife and I raised 4 kids in a 3 bdrm, 1 bath, no basement 935sqft. house. It wasn't until two of the kids married and moved out that I hired a contractor to lift the house and dig a basement underneath. It was our first house and we still live there today. 33 years and it was paid off 10 years early.

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by TheWolfPaq82

Wife and I raised 4 kids in a 3 bdrm, 1 bath, no basement 935sqft. house. It wasn't until two of the kids married and moved out that I hired a contractor to lift the house and dig a basement underneath. It was our first house and we still live there today. 33 years and it was paid off 10 years early.

X2, but I had a bath and a half. Our "starter house" and we're still here after 33 yrs, too.

[latner]

...just keep what you have