Bio Fuel

[Loefflerh]

I realized that its getting hard to find B5 or even straight diesel fuel. A couple of times I went from gas station to gas station and all they sold was B20! Is there any way to find out in advance where to get B5 or less diesel when you plan a trip??

Straight from the book:
Mercedes Benz does not allow diesel fuels containing greater than 5% biodiesel (B5) due to concerns about "production shortcomings". Any damages caused by the use of such non-approved fuels will not be covered by the Mercedes-Benz Limited Warranty.

Sometimes its hard to find the label, but esp. in IL they all had B20. How harmful is it really to the engine?

Hans

[EagleDude]

In IL make sure you hit truck stops and fill up where the semis do. My experience so far has been that they are the only places with non-biodiesel.
I did some research before buying our Solera and a few posts mentioned that "the fuel rod broke due to the higher viscosity of biofuel." Google biodiesel Sprinter and you'll find the info I did.

[2012WhiteSolera]

Looks like gov't regulation will cause fuel related issues in the Sprinter as I read the various posts. So, what now?

[Loefflerh]

I am kind of shocked, I was not aware of this. That means that if you buy a diesel sprinter based vehicle you are voiding the warranty and there is nothing we can do about it

[Herk7769]

Ethyl Alcohol additives have been causing damage to non-Flex gasoline engines for years. The Warranties have still been honored.

[robertmayberry]

Also, be careful in Canada. I noticed that Petro Canada sells Low Sulfer fuel at some stations. Either that or they forgot to change out the stickers on the pump. You should only use Ultra Low Sulfer fuel.

[Loefflerh]

Not to many answers here! Let me ask differently:
- What kind of diesel blend is available in your area?
- What are you doing if you get caught somewhere on a trip and there is only B20 available?

Side note: although MB only approves a max blend of 5%, in Germany you will get nothing less then 7% (mandated by government)

[2012WhiteSolera]

To Herk, ethyl added fuel can contain "up to" 10% of ethyl. Flex fuel marked vehicles are designed to burn E85 or regular gasoline. E85 is 85% ethylol. I realize thats not the topic, but I wanted to clarify. I will be putting my solera to bed soon, so can't really help on this post till spring. I have burned the 5% bio stuff, and didn't notice any lower fuel economy. May I suggest, for those who keep detailed fuel records, note bio, %, and what you observe during that tank use. Best, someone bring this post back early next year, so we can see what, if any, issues occur through the records.

[Oakman]

I haven't seen too many pumps with the B20 except in IL. If you're concerned about using B20 then I wouldn't hesitate to use truck stops for fueling and use the pumps for the big rigs.

[Sgt. Schultz]

Originally Posted by robertmayberry

Also, be careful in Canada. I noticed that Petro Canada sells Low Sulfer fuel at some stations. Either that or they forgot to change out the stickers on the pump. You should only use Ultra Low Sulfer fuel.

note that since late 2006 all on-road diesel fuel in Canada, must be ULSD (15ppm sulfur) - Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel

The Canadian General Standards Board, the body that sets refining standards for commercial fuel in Canada, has also regulated that ULSD must have the lubricating qualities required for today’s fuel pumps and injector systems. Any fuel that cannot meet the standard will need to have a lubricity agent added at the refinery.

[TURBS]

Originally Posted by Loefflerh

Not to many answers here! Let me ask differently:
- What kind of diesel blend is available in your area?
- What are you doing if you get caught somewhere on a trip and there is only B20 available?

Side note: although MB only approves a max blend of 5%, in Germany you will get nothing less then 7% (mandated by government)

I ran into the same problems while running through Illinois this summer on my way to goshen.
My duramax also can not use more than 2-5 % bio.
The reason is high concentrations of bio diesel will not burn hot enough to clean your exhaust filter during its regeneration cycle and could plug your exhaust filter.
I went to three gas stations in a medium sized town and all were b-20.
You'll have to stick to truck stops in Illinois sorry.
Btw diesel exhaust filters are EXPENSIVE to replace !

Turbs

[Oakman]

I don't know why Illinois is so into B20 bio-diesel. I do wish the stations that are selling the B20 would at least put out a sign so you don't waste your time pulling up to a pump only to discover they only have bio-diesel.

We're currently at Rend Lake and the closest town is Benton, IL where almost every station in that town sells bio-diesel. The one station I've found that doesn't sell the B20 bio charges 30 cents a gallon more for their diesel. What a racket.

[Taylorgso]

Hmmm… got me to worrying. Just checked my expense log for trip out west. Looks like I did purchase some diesel in IL on the way out, but leapfrogged IL on the way back east! Driven several tanks out since that fill, and so far no problems. I don't have any idea whether I put Bio in tank or not. Keeping fingers crossed!

Thanks for the heads up. I'll certainly check the sticker on the pump from now on.

[EagleDude]

I'll share the little more I know on this subject. Regarding the warranty: If you are found to have a tank of biodiesel above B5 and you have failure that can be related to fuel. (Fuel pump goes out) MB is not required to warranty any part of that repair. However they cannot void any other part of your warranty by law. They can only refuse to pay for a fuel related problem. They must also prove that you have more than B5 in your tank by analysis unless you admit to using bio. Now if they refuse a repair and say you have been running bio in too high a concentration without proof I don't know what your options are at that point. Get a lawyer I guess.

Regarding IL and bio: According to a gas station owner I talked to they get a huge tax break per gallon on biodiesel that is above a certain percentage. So most smaller stations carry biodiesel. He also said that the percentage mix they get varies. He pulled his receipt for the last load he'd received and told me it was 14 something percent rather than 20. I had ran myself down to nothing looking for a truckstop and had to put some in...

[2012WhiteSolera]

The way I see it. Until a significant number of diesel owners, MB and others, suffer fuel system, and or DPF (diesel particulate filter) failures, no one will step up to issue warnings. BTW, more diesels are being offered by domestic auto companies every year. They have to meet fleet mileage standards comming soon. So, they the tree huggers, are on a collision course. On the one hand, you have the bio crowd who want a higher percentage of bio in America's diesel, and the other, the emmisions regulators who have mandated cleaner burning diesels as of 2010. However, it seems that the issues raised in this post, are pointing to a collision between both. Get your wallets out, this isn't going to end well!

[RvBill3]

Originally Posted by Oakman

I don't know why Illinois is so into B20 bio-diesel. I do wish the stations that are selling the B20 would at least put out a sign so you don't waste your time pulling up to a pump only to discover they only have bio-diesel. We're currently at Rend Lake and the closest town is Benton, IL where almost every station in that town sells bio-diesel. The one station I've found that doesn't sell the B20 bio charges 30 cents a gallon more for their diesel. What a racket.

Try the Love's truck stop one exit north of Rend Lake on I 57. At least the truck pumps should be OK.

[Sgt. Schultz]

hmm learning something ....

From Other Considerations | Office of Energy Efficiency

The U.S. Energy Policy Act of 2005 established the Renewable Fuels Standard (RFS), requiring 7.5 billion gallons of renewable fuels to be blended into gasoline by 2012. The Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 expanded the program and established what is commonly referred to as RFS2, with annual volume requirements that increase to 36 billion gallons by 2022. RFS2 also created various renewable fuel categories, including a requirement for biomass-based diesel, with each category having lifecycle greenhouse gas performance threshold standards and specific volume requirements.
Five states and one city have renewable diesel mandates in effect. Minnesota has mandated B5 in all #2 diesel fuel sold in the state. The mandate increases to B10 in 2012 and B20 in 2015, but only from April through October. Oregon currently has a B2 mandate, but when annual in-state production of biodiesel reaches 15 million gallons, all diesel fuel sold in the state must contain B5. As of July 1, 2010, the city of Portland, Oregon, requires all diesel fuel sold in the city to contain B10. Washington State has mandated 2% biodiesel or renewable diesel content. This would increase to 5% once in-state feedstock and oil-seed crushing capacity can meet a 3% requirement. Pennsylvania requires B2 in all diesel fuel sold in the state. This increases to B5, B10 and B20 once in-state production can meet these levels. Massachusetts currently has a 2% renewable diesel fuel mandate came into effect July 2010 and increases incrementally to 5% by 2013; however, the current mandate has been suspended indefinitely due to concerns that higher costs would be borne by the consumer as a result of the expiration of the biodiesel federal tax credit.
Two additional states have enacted biodiesel mandates that have not yet taken effect. New Mexico’s B5 mandate for diesel fuel used in motor vehicles will come into effect in 2012. Louisiana’s B2 mandate is dependent on in-state annual production of 10 million gallons from domestically grown feedstock.
U.S. production capacity in 2009 was approximately 5,900 million litres, while actual production was approximately 1,672 million litres.


While MB and BMW will not honour warranty with B20 VW will per VW Approves up to B20 Diesel in 2009-2013 in Illinois - TDIClub Forums (post 12 for the letter)

looks like most others are ok
Cummins: B20 for most Cummins Engines but b5 for for private owned RAM trucks

GM Duramax:
General Motors Announces B20 Biofuel Capability For New, 2011 Duramax 6.6L Turbo Diesel

Ford:
New 2011 Ford Super Duty Power Stroke Diesel Engine Is B20 Biodiesel Compatible - AutoObserver

other stuff:
OEM Statement Summary Chart - Biodiesel.org

[Iwannacamp]

I have friends who do diesel work(schools and small fleets) telling stories of cities/schools using bio diesel and having lots of gelling problems. I also understand bio diesels have a very short shelf life...like weeks. You can do your own research. You know what my main problem is? These companies recycling waste products could not exist or survive with subsidies.
I understand the government subsidizes ethanol at $.60 per gallon. Ok. Let's do the math...it's only 60% as efficient as gasoline...it is subsidized at 1/3 the selling cost of gasoline and it drives up the price of food and grain....makes about as much sense at Amtrak.

Sorry to rant.

[DebbieMH]

I had no idea to even look for this on a pump. We are heading to Louisiana tomorrow - so when we stop for diesel, I will check on the pump and see if it says how much bio fuel it contains. How utterly depressing. This country has gone to hell in a handbasket.

[2012WhiteSolera]

Great post Sgt Schultz. So, its even worse than I thought. It seems literally that you could be on a trip and have to fuel up with substandard fuel, especially if your locked up on the interstate. If you think the tree huggers care, your wrong. Read all the studies that talk about how utterly wasteful the ethynol project has become. Now they are going after diesel. It's OUR fault, because "we the people" allow this to happen. So, the remedy is, pay attention, become informed and start changing things.