Boondock power upgrades

jgallo1 · 11-11-2014, 09:52 PM

We did 8 weeks in NM and AZ last winter in our Vibe 6501. So many great places to check out, especially if you're willing to go without electric. The problem I had with our Vibe is that it doesn't seem to be boondock ready. This is my first rig but I imagine the story is a common one across many makes and models.

In short, if you're cool weather camping and boondocking you'll be drawing a lot of amps with the furnace fan. The factory supplied marine battery isn't really a true deep cycle battery with high amp hours that can get you through the night. The next day when running the yamaha generator, the factory supplied power converter (WFCO WF-8955PEC) never seems to kick into 'bulk mode charging'. So what should be a 2-3 hour charge will take 10 times as long. This is a known reported issue with that converter.

I'm sure many of you have different components and needs, but for me, I'm leaning towards:
1) Replacing the marine battery with a true deep cycle battery with at least 85 ah.
2) Replace converter with a true 3 stage converter that is 'plug and play'. Goes into same space and uses same connectors.
(I think I can do both the above for a total of $400)

On a bigger rig, the easy choice would be 6 golf cart batteries and a solar panel. But on these little Vibes, space and weight are at a premium.

Interested if others have had these issues and what you all have done to be 'boondock ready'.

Cheers

Witch Doctor · 11-11-2014, 10:28 PM

I would go with 2- 6 volt batteries and a true 4 stage converter from Progressive #4600 and 70 amps. this will come with a charge wizard that you can control and put in bulk anytime you want and charge at 14.6 volts much less time charging It's a 4 stage charger not 3 and a direct replacement for the WFCO 55 amp now, you will never look back again. google that model and you will see why I said that.

GASPEDDLER · 11-11-2014, 10:39 PM

Following

rana · 11-12-2014, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gljurczyk

I would go with 2- 6 volt batteries and a true 4 stage converter from Progressive #4600 and 70 amps.

X2 That would be the optimal upgrade from what you described as your want's and needs. The only other addition you might consider is a decent battery monitor and shunt. The Trimetric is pretty much considered a "best option" in large or small applications. Not terribly spend... rock solid performance... and really invaluable information.

Remember when purchasing batteries and looking at amp hours that only 50% are effectively available ah's. aljurczyk's suggestion of 2- 6v'rs would bump up your capacity to a more practical range if you want too have a couple 2 or 3 days off shore power and still live comfortably.

That would give you up to 220ah (110 @50%) versus the 85ah (42.5@50%) you mentioned. So for a few dollars more you will more than double your capacity.

mud yapster · 11-12-2014, 04:34 AM

What is a good digital battery monitor besides my $400 Fluke meter that I can mount perminutely inside.

Ham_Bone · 11-12-2014, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mud yapster

What is a good digital battery monitor besides my $400 Fluke meter that I can mount perminutely inside.

Your Fluke is not the tool for the job. You need a monitor that counts coulombs.
LINK

Witch Doctor · 11-12-2014, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mud yapster

What is a good digital battery monitor besides my $400 Fluke meter that I can mount perminutely inside.

It depends on what do you want to monitor? Voltage or amps? They do have some good ones that will do both, just press the function that you want. I was either on Amazon or ebay yesterday and they had some on there that will do both for you, but you would also need to get one with a shunt. But still not break the bank buying one.Check out the link Ham-Bone just posted that is a good one for $159.00 bucks on sale.....

rana · 11-12-2014, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham_Bone

Your Fluke is not the tool for the job. You need a monitor that counts coulombs.
LINK

X2 I know they have the newer 2030 unit out, but I would still stick with the 2025. There is such a thing as TMI.

The only difference between the 2025 and 2025-rv is flush mount or case mount.

IMHO, about the best non-integrated monitor on the market regardless of price.

rana · 11-12-2014, 06:20 AM

Bogart Engineering TM-2025A TriMetric Meter

$139.70 4 left

Happy Vibe · 11-12-2014, 08:00 AM

You can not mount two batteries on the 6501, the battery is mounted on the inside under the bench seat. I have a group 31 battery about 110 AH. I use solar panels to recharge the batteries. The battery that is in your unit was probably from the dealership not FR. I picked up a BEP power monitor (used on boats more than RV) from a local surplus store. it monitors my battery voltage, current draw and capacity, it also monitors AC voltage and current.

mud yapster · 11-12-2014, 08:12 AM

That's what I was looking for, thanks sorry for the high Jack but this is part of boondocking I think. My progressive surge protector shows amps and volts but only on the 120v legs. My auto leveler shows the battery voltage but its 2 volts higher than my Fluke so don't think its accurate.

jgallo1 · 11-12-2014, 10:40 PM

Wow...thanks for all the great info. A few notes based on some of the replies...

-Yes the battery (interstate marine) was dealer supplied not factory. My mistake.

-I'm pretty sure 2 6v batteries will fit under the bench seat of the vibe 6501, however they would need to be end to end. So two vented battery boxes may be a tight fit. 2 sealed (agm) 6v batteries would get around the need for venting (and the boxes) but would add $$ to the project.

-Thanks for the recommendations on converters and monitors. I'll check 'em out.

mud yapster · 11-12-2014, 10:53 PM

AGM or GelCell batteries depend on proper charging. Never run them lower than 50% charge and don't overcharge them. A good charging system is a must and they will last 2 to 4 times longer than lead acid batteries. Gel Cells are strict on over voltage charges also.

Happy Vibe · 11-13-2014, 07:17 AM

If you can get two batteries to fit please post a picture because I could not figure out a way to do it in my 6501

camaraderie · 11-13-2014, 09:21 PM

I am in agreement that more battery power is needed....especially since you only get to USE half the amp hours that you buy. Instead of gettig 6V's (which I like for FOUR battery applications)...I'd suggest true 12V marine deep cycles in whichever size you can get in there...group 31 or 27 preferred to give you around 200 amp hours. (See DEKA/Penn Marine Master with DC in the model #!)

The REASON is that if you have a SINGLE 6V battery failure ...you have O power. With a 12V pair....all you need is one.
Next... you must understand that ALL wet cell batteries are going to be limited to taking BULK charge amps at about 20% of RATED capacity. Thus for a 200amp hour battery bank...any charger over 40 amps will not get you one minute faster charging. So...if you are "refilling a 200amp bank from 1/2 full....i.e. trying to put back 100 amp hours....you'll have about 2 hours of BULK charging to put in 80 amps and than roughly another 2 hours of absorbtion and float charging to get to 100%.
If you want to charge more quickly...you need to move to AGM's which can take AT LEAST 50% of their rated charge in bult mode,,,,which then means you could charge at 100amps on a 200 amp hour bank. You are still faced with a big slow down for the last 20% but you should be able to charge to 100% in about 2 hours.
Suggest that IOTA DLS chargers with SmartIQ feature provide excellent price and performance and are widely available. If you go with AGM's then their DLS90 would be a great choice.
I also prefer the Victron Battery monitor over the Trimetric....but they both perform the same essential functions and no boondocker should be without one or the other if they want to keep their batteries rather than kill them!

mud yapster · 11-14-2014, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaraderie

I am in agreement that more battery power is needed....especially since you only get to USE half the amp hours that you buy. Instead of gettig 6V's (which I like for FOUR battery applications)...I'd suggest true 12V marine deep cycles in whichever size you can get in there...group 31 or 27 preferred to give you around 200 amp hours. (See DEKA/Penn Marine Master with DC in the model #!)

The REASON is that if you have a SINGLE 6V battery failure ...you have O power. With a 12V pair....all you need is one.
Next... you must understand that ALL wet cell batteries are going to be limited to taking BULK charge amps at about 20% of RATED capacity. Thus for a 200amp hour battery bank...any charger over 40 amps will not get you one minute faster charging. So...if you are "refilling a 200amp bank from 1/2 full....i.e. trying to put back 100 amp hours....you'll have about 2 hours of BULK charging to put in 80 amps and than roughly another 2 hours of absorbtion and float charging to get to 100%.
If you want to charge more quickly...you need to move to AGM's which can take AT LEAST 50% of their rated charge in bult mode,,,,which then means you could charge at 100amps on a 200 amp hour bank. You are still faced with a big slow down for the last 20% but you should be able to charge to 100% in about 2 hours.
Suggest that IOTA DLS chargers with SmartIQ feature provide excellent price and performance and are widely available. If you go with AGM's then their DLS90 would be a great choice.
I also prefer the Victron Battery monitor over the Trimetric....but they both perform the same essential functions and no boondocker should be without one or the other if they want to keep their batteries rather than kill them!

I have two 12Volt 100AH batteries paralled (DEKA) for that reason as you said, incase a 6V baterry failure. My dual battery set up has worked really well for us so far. I like the Victron battery monitor in your pic. Nice looking monitor. I haven't install a Solar array on my roof as of yet but probably will in the spring.

Happy Vibe · 11-14-2014, 07:14 AM

I would suggest that people look at the vibe 6501 before they suggest two large batteries. This is a small V noise trailer that does not have room for two large batteries. I have one and tried to but two batteries in but could not get them to fit.

camaraderie · 11-14-2014, 11:17 AM

Happy....point taken...but I see a space where they could go.

There is no reason the batteries must remain in the current position. There is no way to do extended boondocking on a 75amp hour battery without constantly running the generator so at least 2 batts are needed for what he wants to do. Look to me like a bit of that storage space needs to be reclaimed!

mud yapster · 11-14-2014, 11:43 AM

There you gp, if there's a will there's a way. Then mount a 100 watt solar on the roof to keep them charged. Also there are some nice portable solar charge panel kits out there if you don't want to mount one on the roof.

rotorhead1250 · 11-14-2014, 12:00 PM

When im in the woods here in NM and its cold, i just run the genny all night long because thats when the most amp draw happens. It only burns about 1 gallon during the night and my batts stay fairly charged. It takes about three days at 3 amp trickle to get my 12 v batteries (2 of them) topped off after an outing.

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