VCROSS Sway Control

[pdchristensen]

Likely I will be faced with having to cut down the mounts as well, however at least there is no work in fastening the bracket for the mounts.

[Kevin1969]

Hi, I think I can actually help with your inquiry. My wife and I bought our 2013 Vibe 6504 a few months ago. We got the "Equalizer 2" anti sway system with our trailer.
I couldn't imaging towing it without the anti sway system.
How do you like your 6504?

[pdchristensen]

Originally Posted by Kevin1969

Hi, I think I can actually help with your inquiry. My wife and I bought our 2013 Vibe 6504 a few months ago. We got the "Equalizer 2" anti sway system with our trailer.
I couldn't imaging towing it without the anti sway system.
How do you like your 6504?

We love our trailer, especially after upgrading the axle. Just need to complete the install of anti sway/load distribution hitch. Thanks for the heads up on the "Equalizer 2" that will be my spring project.
Trailer is tucked in for the winter.

[PA Paco]

Originally Posted by pdchristensen

We love our trailer, especially after upgrading the axle. Just need to complete the install of anti sway/load distribution hitch. Thanks for the heads up on the "Equalizer 2" that will be my spring project.
Trailer is tucked in for the winter.

What kind of axle upgrade did you perform?
How much did it cost if you don't mind me asking. What was involved?

[Kevin1969]

We're going to win the Lottery of 500 million tonight and then I'll likely upgrade our axle, rims and tires on our 6504 too!! Tried to get some assistance from FR in regards to providing us a responsible safe axle for our Vibe or at least tires that have some range of safety but I got no where. I'll definitely do more homework when we purchase our next trailer and Forest River will likely NOT get our business.
This will not be my last rant. I gave FR a chance to retain my wife and I as FR supporters by asking them to replace our 2 tires and spare with ones with a better load rating and they "basically" said we can't help. The tires that came with the trailer are the best they offer. The tires combined max load weight is 3520lbs and our dry weight for the trailer is 3397lbs. Humm...... Shame shame shame........on FR.

[pdchristensen]

Originally Posted by PA Paco

What kind of axle upgrade did you perform?
How much did it cost if you don't mind me asking. What was involved?

I have learned a lot from my experience in purchasing a trailer & educating myself on understanding the GAWR & GVWR world. I made some mistakes in this purchase – but live and learn. Even though I feel the buyer should be responsible for doing the research, I do think the manufacturer has an obligation to provide a product that has an acceptable margin for safety.
The entire VIBE series are equipped with 3500 lb single axles. The “factory” shipped weight of these units range from 2900 lbs to 3300 lbs (depending on the model & options – we have the heavier model 6504 with the slide out bunks) and a GVWR around 3800lbs. When I purchased my unit I was of the expectation we would have a minimum of 511 lbs cargo carrying capacity (as per web site). I was not experienced enough to understand that this would include things like water in the holding tanks, full propane tank, and possible options installed outside of factory. When I received the unit I noted the “dry weight” of the trailer was stamped at over 3500 lbs and the Cargo Carrying Capacity restricted to 211 lbs. I was a bit shocked but realized I had not done enough research prior to purchasing the unit.
On closer examination the whole issue with the VIBE series seems to hinge on bringing it within the weight classification of a “mini van” for 3500 lb towing capacity (at least some would suggest that). I don’t buy that suggestion as I used to own a mini van (2006 Uplander), and there is no way it could tow a trailer in this weight class (even with the 3500 lb tow rating, you are pushing the limits of that class of vehicle with the VIBE series).
I have to assume Forest River is installing 3500 lb axles, hub, rim & tire combinations to meet the bare minimum requirements to support the trailer, unless they can suggest to me otherwise. It obviously results in some cost savings for them.
I really like the layout of the VIBE 6504 for our family of 4, and I have not seen anything else with an equivalent layout. I only wish they would have provided an option for an axle upgrade (especially for the heavier models). My unit was factory ordered, so an axle upgrade option would have been easy at the time (if it was available, but apparently not). It seems hilarious that the VIBE 6503 & VIBE 6504 models have these huge storage compartments that can only be used for a few pillows due to CCC restrictions. I am not sure how you pack a trailer for 4 people with such limited CCC.
I was not willing to negotiate with Forest River to make this right as I live in Canada and dealing with the factory would have resulted in major transportation costs, logistics and time so I bit the bullet myself to make it right. There was a local “reputable” trailer manufacturer that was willing to complete an axle upgrade. The limited CCC was not just linked to the axle, but the entire suspension (hubs, rims and tires were rated at the very minimum requirement around 3500 lbs). Yes if you factor out the tongue weight of 300 lbs you have slightly less load on the suspension, but it is way to close for comfort for me.
I replaced the 3500 lb Lippert axle with a 6000 lb Dexter unit (about $900.00 delivered to Canada). The axle was equipped with 3000 lb rated hubs. Upgraded the rims to a 6 bolt – 15 inch (2800 lb rating), and tires to 15 inch load range “E” (2800 lb rating) at a cost of just over $2000.00 (labor included). That is my story….which has a happy ending as I now have piece of mind when I travel down the road.

[Happy Vibe]

Kevin I would suggest that you look at other manufactures before you put down FR. You will find that they all use the same formula to get GVWR. It is not just FR that has the components maxed out at GVWR. We looked at a Jayco and it's ccc was around 250 lbs. I don''t agree with how they do it but it seems to be industry wide.
I do go with the reason that the GVWR is set so people with mid sized SUV and minivans can pull these. I pull a 6501 with a minivan with no problem and I am within my limits. I did not look at the 6504 because I figured when loaded it would put me over my limits.

[PA Paco]

Originally Posted by pdchristensen

I have learned a lot from my experience in purchasing a trailer & educating myself on understanding the GAWR & GVWR world. I made some mistakes in this purchase – but live and learn. Even though I feel the buyer should be responsible for doing the research, I do think the manufacturer has an obligation to provide a product that has an acceptable margin for safety.
The entire VIBE series are equipped with 3500 lb single axles. The “factory” shipped weight of these units range from 2900 lbs to 3300 lbs (depending on the model & options – we have the heavier model 6504 with the slide out bunks) and a GVWR around 3800lbs. When I purchased my unit I was of the expectation we would have a minimum of 511 lbs cargo carrying capacity (as per web site). I was not experienced enough to understand that this would include things like water in the holding tanks, full propane tank, and possible options installed outside of factory. When I received the unit I noted the “dry weight” of the trailer was stamped at over 3500 lbs and the Cargo Carrying Capacity restricted to 211 lbs. I was a bit shocked but realized I had not done enough research prior to purchasing the unit.
On closer examination the whole issue with the VIBE series seems to hinge on bringing it within the weight classification of a “mini van” for 3500 lb towing capacity (at least some would suggest that). I don’t buy that suggestion as I used to own a mini van (2006 Uplander), and there is no way it could tow a trailer in this weight class (even with the 3500 lb tow rating, you are pushing the limits of that class of vehicle with the VIBE series).
I have to assume Forest River is installing 3500 lb axles, hub, rim & tire combinations to meet the bare minimum requirements to support the trailer, unless they can suggest to me otherwise. It obviously results in some cost savings for them.
I really like the layout of the VIBE 6504 for our family of 4, and I have not seen anything else with an equivalent layout. I only wish they would have provided an option for an axle upgrade (especially for the heavier models). My unit was factory ordered, so an axle upgrade option would have been easy at the time (if it was available, but apparently not). It seems hilarious that the VIBE 6503 & VIBE 6504 models have these huge storage compartments that can only be used for a few pillows due to CCC restrictions. I am not sure how you pack a trailer for 4 people with such limited CCC.
I was not willing to negotiate with Forest River to make this right as I live in Canada and dealing with the factory would have resulted in major transportation costs, logistics and time so I bit the bullet myself to make it right. There was a local “reputable” trailer manufacturer that was willing to complete an axle upgrade. The limited CCC was not just linked to the axle, but the entire suspension (hubs, rims and tires were rated at the very minimum requirement around 3500 lbs). Yes if you factor out the tongue weight of 300 lbs you have slightly less load on the suspension, but it is way to close for comfort for me.
I replaced the 3500 lb Lippert axle with a 6000 lb Dexter unit (about $900.00 delivered to Canada). The axle was equipped with 3000 lb rated hubs. Upgraded the rims to a 6 bolt – 15 inch (2800 lb rating), and tires to 15 inch load range “E” (2800 lb rating) at a cost of just over $2000.00 (labor included). That is my story….which has a happy ending as I now have piece of mind when I travel down the road.

Thanks for the info.

We have a 6501 and plan on keeping it for a long time.
For peace of mind I am going to do the upgrade you performed.
Can you please give me specific details (model, make, part #s)?

[pdchristensen]

Originally Posted by PA Paco

Thanks for the info.

We have a 6501 and plan on keeping it for a long time.
For peace of mind I am going to do the upgrade you performed.
Can you please give me specific details (model, make, part #s)?

Hi PA Paco.
Just got back home from an awesome trip to Disneyworld with the family.
Sorry it took me awhile to respond. I still have issues with posting messages from my work computer system, so I had to wait for an opportunity to reply to your post from home.
The conversion was quite simple for me as I had access to a local utility trailer manufacturer in my city. The do not manufacture travel trailers, but were quite familiar with trailer suspension systems. I am sure you could have any local trailer service representative complete the upgrade for you if you are determined to have the work done (as I was).
I opted to stay away from the original “Lippert” components as I was not too happy with the support I received from them in my initial research on completing an upgrade. The Dexter product seemed to also have better reviews from the research I did.
Dexter – Hub/Drum Kit (E/Z Lube) – for 6,000 lb axle (Part # K08-201-95)
Dexter – 12 x 2” Electric Brake Kit – (6,000 lb capacity per pair)
Dexter – 6,000 lb Torflex Axle
I locally sourced three – 15 inch rims and load range “E” tires locally (6 x 5.5 inch bolt pattern on the rims with a combined 5600 lb capacity for both rims & tires). Here is a link to the company website.
http://dexteraxle.com/home
You can likely source the axle, hubs & electric brakes for just under $1,000. Follow this link to a sample supplier of Dexter products.
http://www.theoempartsstore.com/product.php?productid=33340&cat=2297&page=1
The installation was almost straight forward with the exception that the Dexter mounting bracket bolt pattern did not perfectly match up with the existing mounting bracket on the VIBE trailer. I believe the trailer manufacturer had to take a measurement of the existing Lippert axle width from hub to hub to & trailer frame mounting bracket spacing to determine the correct Dexter axle requirements. The trailer manufacturer simply welded a custom bracket to the trailer that mated (bolted) easily to the factory installed Dexter bracket on the axle. ***The key here was that the custom bracket was welded to the trailer & NOT TO THE TORSION AXLE , as any welding to the torsion axle could damage the cords inside.***
The bonus of completing the upgrade was the trailer now also has better clearance from the ground with the beefier axle & larger tires. The axles/hubs/brakes/rims & tires (including spare) came out to about $2,000 for me (however that included freight for delivery of parts to Canada, depending where you are you could probably get the work done for less).
I could take a photo of the axle upgrade from under the trailer if you think it would help. The trailer is sitting in a bit of snow , but it probably would not be to hard to clear enough away to take a few pics.
Hope this info helps you.

[TeJay]

Hi folks,
A lot of interesting information on this thread. Also I really like the waving Canadian flag.
We have also had similar issues with suspensions. We are on our second FR Flagstaff unit. The first one we got last July and had similar suspension issues. After we received the unit (26-FKWS max weight at 7,000-lbs) I noticed that the axles were 3,000#. So we had a TT with 2-3,000# axles and a max weight of 7,000#. What's wrong with that picture. I contacted the dealer and on a Monday morning they called the factory around 9-AM. They were told absolutely NO. They would do nothing. I called around 10:30-AM, same day (I also did not know that the dealer had called). I was told within 2 minutes that two 3,500# axles would be shipped that week. I was shocked that it took so little time. I then asked the question, " Was this problem settled so quickly because I the consumer found out that the axles were under rated for the trailer?" The answer I got was YES. When I stopped at the dealer around 11:00-AM they greeted me like I was some sort of god. They said,
" What did you tell the manufacturer that changed their minds so quickly?"

We got the new axles and departed for my 50th class reunion. Had a great time and on the return trip we stopped for fuel in IN and our brand new Flagstaff was totaled by a dump truck in the Pilot parking area. It was clearly his fault and nobody was hurt. Within 30 days all $$$$ was settled and we ordered another unit identical to the other one and we were reassured that it would come with 3,500 # axles. It arrived in about 8 weeks and it came with 2-3,000# axles. So they ordered 2-3,500# axles and installed them. When I went to pick it up I checked the axles and guess what??? The new axles were also 3,000# axles and they installed them and obviously they didn't check them before installation. So we repeated the same and finally got the unit last week.
Even though they changed our axles the dealer has had some units come in that still had the 3,000# axles installed on a 7,000# trailer. The funny thing about this is that the difference in price between the two axles is probably no more than about $100. The Dexter rep told me that they are the same units but the 3,500# Tor-Flex axle has additional rubber injected in it to increase the weight capacity by 500#.
Thanks for all the great info,
TeJay

[PA Paco]

Originally Posted by pdchristensen

Hi PA Paco.
Just got back home from an awesome trip to Disneyworld.............

Thanks for the detailed info, a picture would be great. I was going to swap it out myself but with the welding needed I will take it to a trailer service center.

What size tires to you go with. Did you have any issues with clearance in the wheel well? The stock ones on mine are 205/75/R14.

[pdchristensen]

Originally Posted by PA Paco

Thanks for the detailed info, a picture would be great. I was going to swap it out myself but with the welding needed I will take it to a trailer service center.

What size tires to you go with. Did you have any issues with clearance in the wheel well? The stock ones on mine are 205/75/R14.

Hi Paco.

I upgraded from 14 inch to 15 inch tires (that will give you a better load rating). I would suggest you go with a 6K axle with hubs that will accomodate 15 inch rims 6 x 5.5 bolt pattern. The end result is you end up with an axle/hubs/rims & tires with a much better load rating. The 205/75/R14 tires that I originally had only had a combined load rating of about 3600 lbs. (same dilemma as the axle - no margin for loading the trailer). I will try and take a photo of the replacement axle for you sometime on the weekend, (that will give you an idea of the custom bracket install that Saturn Trailers did for me)

[PA Paco]

Originally Posted by pdchristensen

Hi Paco.

I upgraded from 14 inch to 15 inch tires (that will give you a better load rating). I would suggest you go with a 6K axle with hubs that will accomodate 15 inch rims 6 x 5.5 bolt pattern. The end result is you end up with an axle/hubs/rims & tires with a much better load rating. The 205/75/R14 tires that I originally had only had a combined load rating of about 3600 lbs. (same dilemma as the axle - no margin for loading the trailer). I will try and take a photo of the replacement axle for you sometime on the weekend, (that will give you an idea of the custom bracket install that Saturn Trailers did for me)

Thanks. No hurry on the pictures.
Is your tire upgrade the same size except for the 14" to 15". Are they 205/75/15?

[pdchristensen]

Originally Posted by PA Paco

Thanks. No hurry on the pictures.
Is your tire upgrade the same size except for the 14" to 15". Are they 205/75/15?

I opted to go with ST225-75R15 (wider tire as well as diameter) for improved load rating. No problem at all fitting within the existing fenders.
Overall the trailer now sits a lot higher (I really like the added clearance for working under and better protection from debris damage).

Here are some photos of the bracket installed by Saturn Industriesin Winnipeg, Manitoba to accomodate the beefier axle.

[ProjectPro]

We have a VCross Super Lite VFK27 which came with an Equal-I-Zer 4-point sway control system. When we arrived at the RV resort last week I found that one of the sway bars had become disconnected from the trailer and was just hanging from the hitch. On further inspection I found that the mounting bracket on the trailer had been pushed back about five inches, and the L-pin was bent.

The only thing I can think of is that the previous evening we stopped for the night, and I had to turn the Sequoia I was towing with very sharply to back the trailer into its spot.

Is there a limit on the angle between the tow vehicle and trailer when using this type of sway control device?

[PA Paco]

Originally Posted by ProjectPro

Is there a limit on the angle between the tow vehicle and trailer when using this type of sway control device?

No sure of the angle, but maybe the brackets are installed too far back from the hitch ball.

The instructions call for the brackets to be mounted between 27"-32" from the center of the hitch.

[ProjectPro]

I get 31.5" from the front of the bracket to the center of the ball, so they are on the far end of the range. I'll just have to watch the sharp turn parking maneuvers, I guess.

[Danimalkr]

We bought a 2013 Vibe 6502. We absolutely love the trailer, however ...

The trailer came with the E2 WDH factory mounts (2 studs on each side of the tongue). The dealer installed an E2 WDH. We took it home and loaded the large cargo storage with 350# of camping gear... no fresh, grey or black water. About 50# more in the cabinets. (far less than the 646# stated in the brochure)

On the road, I took a small swerve to avoid a retread at 50 MPH. The trailer went into a death sway. It took my tow vehicle into the oncoming lane (luckily no traffic)

I researched and found the cause to be not enough tongue weight. Recommended 10-15% Problem is the Vibe 6502 starts about 10% (3164# empty and 310# Tongue weight empty) The large cargo compartment and the fresh water tank is behind the axle. Anything you put in the CC or fresh tank removes tongue weight. I had 100# (3% Tongue weight) ... I bought a Sherline tongue weight scale.

The steel on steel friction sway control on the E2 hitch is ineffective without adequate tongue weight. (Actually, the E2 Manual recommends a minimum of 400# TW)

Do the math ... I'm at a loss as to what the FR engineers were thinking ... am I missing something ?

I've had it a month and haven't used it as I feel it is not safe to tow. The dealer won't take it back even though it's never been used.

I'm changing to a Reese 600/6000 Equal-i-zer hitch with 4 point sway control. Also, I'm considering the Dexter 6000# axle upgrade as explained by pdchristensen in this thread so I can add some lead weight to the front and put more than pillows in the generous cargo storage compartment.
Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[youroo]

Most W/D sway control systems need (Preload) to function.If your case is not conductive to this,try 1 or 2 (Friction bar type),they preload by turning a lever.Youroo!!

[PA Paco]

Originally Posted by Danimalkr

We bought a 2013 Vibe 6502. We absolutely love the trailer, however ...

I'm changing to a Reese 600/6000 Equal-i-zer hitch with 4 point sway control. Also, I'm considering the Dexter 6000# axle upgrade as explained by pdchristensen in this thread so I can add some lead weight to the front and put more than pillows in the generous cargo storage compartment.
Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

You answered the reason you experieced the sway. If you only had 100lbs on the tongue, that was your issue. I'm just glad nothing bad happened to you and your family, lesson learned.

What is your tow vehicle?

We have a 6501 & tow with an FJ Cruiser. We have an Equilizer hitch and have not had any sway problems. The hitch we have is very similar to yours. Before you upgrage to another hitch, try to get that tongue weight right and see how she handles.

We also plan on upgrading to a 6,000 lb axle.