Vibe 6504 GAWR

[pdchristensen]

Good Morning

Recently purchased VIBE 6504 unit & imported to Canada. It is a nice sized trailer for our purposes and easy to haul with our Chevy Traverse, at a dry weight of 3400 lbs, however I am concerned with the limited GAWR.
It seems the unit is maxed out for the single axle rating in that it has a very limited cargo carrying capacity. This is unusual in light of the fact they put such a large storgage area under the rear queen size bed. I am limited to only 200 lbs or so of cargo which is not hard to rack up even with just food, clothes, dishes etc.

The limited cargo carrying capacity is likely due to the inclusion of the heavy double bunk slide on this unit, however I am surprised that Forest River did not consider manufacturing this unit with a beefier rated axle & hubs. The research I have done would indicate that single axles & hubs are available up to a 6000 lb rating.

My concern is that because I am always travelling near the capactiy of the rating I am at risk of premature failure of the axle or hubs. Does anyone else share this concern. I am wondering if upgrading the axle & hubs is an option for these units or if I am pretty much stuck with what I have.

P. Christensen
Lifetime Tenter
First Time Travel Trailer Owner - VIBE 6504
Tow Vehicle - Chevy Traverse
Number of RV outings - 4

[crasher]

When normal people like you and me think that things are engineered, we foolishly assume that they employ real engineers.

For the most part, engineering in the RV industry is by trial and error at the customer's expense. And often these things are built to a price target. So an otherwise fairly well made rig with lots of storage space gets an undersized axle to save $50.

Most engineers I deal with would use a 6000 lbs axle when the calculations say a 3000 one would do.

You could probably find a shop to change out the axle and hubs, but would take some research to find out if the bolt up is in the same locations. I would say your odds are good and it wouldn't be horribly expensive to give you some peace of mind.

[bikendan]

as i've posted many times before, nearly every TT that's in 3500lbs. GVWR range, have terrible CCC numbers. of course, manufacturers and dealers don't inform buyers of this.

they can't put in heavier axles since that will put the GVWR's out of the towing capacities of the minivan/small SUV crowd.

your Traverse has a higher towing capacity but this model Vibe is targeted for the 3500 crowd.

[Dave_Monica]

Originally Posted by pdchristensen

I am concerned with the limited GAWR.
It seems the unit is maxed out for the single axle rating in that it has a very limited cargo carrying capacity.

Unfortunately, this is something you needed to discover before buying it. The low CCC is typical of small, single axle campers.

Dave

[pdchristensen]

Thanks for the feedback - Bikendan however I would suggest this unit was not designed for the 3500 lb towing range. I myself used to own a minivan (uplander). Towing capacity includes the payload of the vehicle and trailer (ie: fuel, passengers etc). That is why we got rid of the van, it could not hanldle this trailer.

Dave & Monica, you are right that I should have looked carefully at the CCC, however I believe the engineers are playing to close to limits on this unit. The 3500 GAWR is probably okay for the other 3 models in the 6500 series as they all have less options resulting in a CCC of almost 1,000 lbs.
The addition of the slide unit is the problem on the 6504 model increasing its weight significantly. The manufacturer website suggested we would get 500 lbs CCC, to our surprise when we received the unit with a sticker indicating a CCC of 200 lbs due to a dry weight over 3400 lbs.
In my mind that particular model should have been equipped with a 5,000 lb axle/hubs just to stay within a safe parameter for travel. I am somewhat reluctant to bounce that trailer down some of the Canadian highways with a small margin for error on over taxing the axle. I will likely get the axle upgraded, but shame on Forest River for documenting a 500 lb CCC and delivering less than 200. They should manufacture that particular model with a stronger suspension and charge a little more money.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by pdchristensen

Thanks for the feedback - Bikendan however I would suggest this unit was not designed for the 3500 lb towing range. I myself used to own a minivan (uplander). Towing capacity includes the payload of the vehicle and trailer (ie: fuel, passengers etc). That is why we got rid of the van, it could not hanldle this trailer.

The manufacturer website suggested we would get 500 lbs CCC, to our surprise when we received the unit with a sticker indicating a CCC of 200 lbs due to a dry weight over 3400 lbs.
In my mind that particular model should have been equipped with a 5,000 lb axle/hubs just to stay within a safe parameter for travel. I am somewhat reluctant to bounce that trailer down some of the Canadian highways with a small margin for error on over taxing the axle. I will likely get the axle upgraded, but shame on Forest River for documenting a 500 lb CCC and delivering less than 200. They should manufacture that particular model with a stronger suspension and charge a little more money.

well, because it has a GVWR of only 295lbs. more, i consider that in the range.
i also believe that minivans are not good vehicles for towing a conventional full-height travel trailer, due to the frontal area's air resistance.
only the Astro/Safari minivan with the 4.3 Vortec v-6 and rear wheel drive on a S-10 chassis, was built to tow.

as for the low CCC, nearly all RV manufacturers fail to include the weights of so-called "options" that nearly all trailers have. most list a disclaimer at the bottom, such as the one on Jayco's website does:

"(UVW): Sometimes referred to as "Dry Weight." UVW means the typical weight of this trailer as built at the factory. The UVW, as used in product literature and other promotional materials, does not include cargo, fresh water, LP gas, options or dealer-installed accessories."

that's why using fictional "dry" weights from the brochure or website, are a waste and misleading.
you have to look at the trailer's outside yellow sticker(on older trailers, it's on a white sticker, usually on the inside of a cabinet door) to see its actual weight when it left the factory.
our Roo 23SS weighed 400lbs. more than its "dry" weight, on the dealer's lot. and that was with the normal "options".

this is an industry-wide practice and why many of us veterans are always preaching about NOT using "dry" weights.
but to be fair, the manufacturers can't print an actual standard weight since many buyers may change or add more than the normal options.
such as a bigger a/c, or a satellite dome or a power tongue jack or slide awnings and so on.

[Coal is King]

Originally Posted by bikendan

you have to look at the trailer's outside yellow sticker(on older trailers, it's on a white sticker, usually on the inside of a cabinet door) to see its actual weight when it left the factory.

Recently purchased our 1st TT same as op's....anyway my yellow sticker shows 692 lbs of cargo, dry weight of 3316 lbs, GAWR 3500....confused? Would hitch weight factor into this?

[Dave_Monica]

The sticker on the left/front should also state GVWR for the camper...what is it? It's typically the axle weight rating plus the dry tongue weight.

Dry weight and GVWR both have the tongue weight included...the GAWR is the axle limit of 3500#...no tongue weight.

Dave

[Happy Vibe]

Forest river has been playing around with the gvwr numbers on the 6500 series vibes. When I bought my 6501 the ccc was close to 1200 lbs (dry weight was 2800). They have since reduced the ccc to around 950. I noticed that they did a similar reduction on other models. I sent an email asking if I should work with the lower gvwr and they said no, I should use what is on the yellow sticker. I am not concerned as I am well under the gvwr (3300 lbs loaded).
PS I tow with a minivan and have no issues doing it, and I am not over weight, right at max yes but not over.

[Coal is King]

GVWR is 4025 lbs., from white sticker at frt lft
3500(GAWR, white sticker) + 295 (hitch wt, FR website) =3795 lbs
3316 (dry weight, yelo stkr)+692(CCC, yelo stkr) =4008 lbs

It's good there messing around with weight numbers while we're out here traveling with our families! Jeeez

[pdchristensen]

Originally Posted by Coal is King

GVWR is 4025 lbs., from white sticker at frt lft
3500(GAWR, white sticker) + 295 (hitch wt, FR website) =3795 lbs
3316 (dry weight, yelo stkr)+692(CCC, yelo stkr) =4008 lbs

It's good there messing around with weight numbers while we're out here traveling with our families! Jeeez

My main concern is not so much the GVWR as the GAWR. At the end of the day these units only have a 3500 lb rated lippert axle & combined 3500 lb rated tires & hubs. Bouncing my single axle trailer down Canadian highways (which are no where near as well maintained U.S. freeways) will likely result in a lot of bouncing on that light weight axle/hub/tire combination. Thus my decision to upgrade the axle/hub/tire to 6,000 lbs.