Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-14-2013, 04:55 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 38
A Few General 5th Wheel Questions

I've been living and traveling full time in my first trailer, an 01 FR All American Sport 28FB. I tow it with a 97 F350 dually 7.3TD regular cab. It does ok but am looking to downsize my whole mess at some point, and I have a few ideas in mind.

A lot of people tell me how much easier 5th wheel trailers are to tow. I'm passed regularly on the highway by 3/4T or SRW 1T trucks towing massive 5th wheels (toy haulers and regular campers alike). I keep it under 60 for fuel consumption reasons, but traveling around the western US sucks at that pace, and again I'm quite jealous of the guys blowing by me with longer 5th wheel trailers and lighter duty trucks. It makes getting anywhere a bigger chore than it needs to be.

I have the toy hauler because I have 3 motorcycles in the back, but will shrink that to two when traveling in the future after I find a job and get into another house. It's only my girlfriend and I so we only need one bed and don't need much living space.

So I wonder, would a 5th wheel trailer of equivalent size truly be easier to tow, and allow me to carry a higher highway speed without murdering my fuel consumption? Would such a trailer be heavier or lighter than what I currently have?

Also, what is the shortest 5th wheel toy hauler on the market? I'd love to have one that is under 30' overall and doesn't have a super tall roof like most on the market. I'd even be happy with a side entry TH with the living space separated and in the back. Does anything like that exist?
wantahertzdonut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2013, 05:12 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
wneise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 266
The biggest plus I can think of with a fiver is the handling. Since it hitches and rotates over your rear axle, and not 3 feet in back of it, sway is almost eliminated and turning is easier. The drawback however is since there is living space up there, you are punching a bigger hole the air so your fuel economy may suffer a bit although I don't notice it that much. Not sure on what is out there that's under 30', but since back of the rig sits 4-5 feet closer than a trailer you may feel comfortable going up to 32' or more. As far as speed goes, the handling will help reduce the white knuckles a bit, but fuel economy will only get better with a lighter rig. Just don't make it so light that you can't carry your motorcycles.
wneise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2013, 05:18 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Ford Idaho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Idaho
Posts: 9,839
Forest River RV Wildcat extraLite Toy Hauler Fifth Wheels | Reviews, Floorplans, Specs, Pictures and Price Quotes

https://www.nationalrvonline.com/nat...20(Custom).jpg
__________________
2016 F350 6.7L LB CC Reese 28K 2014 Chaparral Lite 266sab
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." 2014 19 days camping 2015 17 days camping201620 days camping
Ford Idaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2013, 05:49 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
jonrjen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 812
Tow ratings have risen over the recent years, and RV designs have also changed and become quite a bit more light weight in stature. Which allows for wider choices in both tow vehicle and RV choices to match up.

However, just because you see a 3/4 ton truck pulling a 40' long triple axle 5th wheels down the road doesn't mean that the weight limits have not been pushed past the tow vehicles limits. Far too many people will tow well above the limits of their vehicles capabilities simply because a sales person says it could be done.

Another point to keep in mind is that most trailer specific tires are rated to be towed at speeds no greater than 65mph, so again just because you see it doesn't mean it is right.

As for handling, I agree that a 5th wheel does have the benefit of towing better, largely die to the hitch location over the rear axle rather than behind the bumper. This is also why 5th wheels will almost always have a greater carrying capacity for the owners over abundance of cra_.....stuff that gets hauled along camping. 5th wheels basements can hold a lot of stuff or a bunch of stuff and a generator.

However, a 5th wheels also sits at a higher profile thus needed to buffer more wind as it gets pulled down the road.

So in the end, both a travel trailer and 5th wheel have their own pluses and minuses when compared.

Good luck with your choice. And as far as going slower down the road, well that ain't all bad as long as your not obstructing traffic or creating a dangerous situation for others.
jonrjen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2013, 05:55 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Iwannacamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,916
One question was weight. Yes, I was told the 5er is always heavier for the same size. I assume this is correct.
__________________
2017 Puma 297RLSS
2005 Ram 2500 4X4 diesel SMOKER!!
I love puns, irony and tasteless jokes...
born in Texas.... live in Arkansas
Iwannacamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 10:24 AM   #6
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 28
Since I just purchased my first 5th wheel I might could shed some light on the situation. After pulling a 38' TT(dry weight 8k) for 9yrs. I had a 96 F350 7.3L the first thing I did was upgrade my TV to a 3/4 D-Max(couldn't risk driving a 6.0 Ford) and love the awesome power and fuel economy(DD) from this truck. It pulled great but still had the sway/white knuckle effect but my main worry was finding huge truck stops for fuel. But after picking up this 5th wheel there is no way I would go back!!! Pulls awesome, hardly any sway, backing in/parking is a breeze, just set the cruise and relax. I haven't noticed any loss in performance when towing(11k dry weight). As far as fuel economy I don't worry about it but a newer TV will help your mpg a ton.

And any aerodynamic TT/5'ver will help. My 01 TT was flat with a slight slope so I know it was an anchor lol.
__________________
06 D-Max CC 4X4

2014 Wildcat 344QB-OK
EastTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 10:32 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
jevanb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by wantahertzdonut View Post

A lot of people tell me how much easier 5th wheel trailers are to tow. I'm passed regularly on the highway by 3/4T or SRW 1T trucks towing massive 5th wheels (toy haulers and regular campers alike). I keep it under 60 for fuel consumption reasons, but traveling around the western US sucks at that pace, and again I'm quite jealous of the guys blowing by me with longer 5th wheel trailers and lighter duty trucks. It makes getting anywhere a bigger chore than it needs to be.


unless you are their trucks you have no idea how much pedal they are pushing to pass you.. a 97 7.3 does not have a ton of power compaired to a modern diesel, it did ok, but by todays standards a echo boost has more power.
__________________
2012 Wildcat 344QB

06 LBZ ,CC 4x
lots of mods
Superglide
jevanb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 10:37 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Oaklevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 9,737
Just my 2 cents I have had 2 Puma fivers a 26 ft & now a 36 ft ......Would rather pull the 36 ft fiver than my 22 ft box cargo trailer..................
__________________

2005 Dodge 3500 Cummins
2017 Wildwood Lodge 4092 BFL
1966 Mustang GT
1986 Mustang SVO
Lillie Spoiled Rotten Boxer Mix
Oaklevel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 11:01 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
BamaBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Whereever our Berkshire is Parked!
Posts: 7,082
X2 what everyone else said with this addendum:

Yes you can get a ultralightweight 5er toy hauler that will probably meet your needs, and there is even a chance that you can tow it with a 1/2 ton P/U however...

The 1/2 Ton has to be correctly configured - any old 1/2T off the lot will not do the job!

We ordered ours custom from the factory with every heavy duty option available and a electronic 3.73 axle - Ford claims we can tow 11,300.

Our 5er + cargo tips scales at ~9,300 and we are very comfortable towing this up and down hills. Ford's electronic integrated trailer brake package is a pleasure to use - very smooth stops and serious breaking capability when emergencies dictate.

All this said, do NOT expect hybrid-like gas milage! Yes we can zoom down the road at 70+ MPH (keep in mind stock trailer tires are usually max rated @ 65MPH) But I can tell you gas economy will suffer. Here is data from my own towing experience:

65-70MPH - 8.9MPG (Truck Computer)
60-65MPH - 11.5MPG
55-60MPH - 13.6MPG

and, literally, YMMV

Even without the 5er behind us, we rarely see better than 19MPG - all that heavy duty equipment and lower axle cut into gas milage.
__________________
Bob & Anne-Marie [BamaBob & 6 Actual]
| 2017 Berkshire XLT 43A with Ultrasteer Tag | Blue Ox Avail + KarGard II |
| SMI AF-1 Air Brake | 2016 Jeep Cherokee Overland TOAD | Pedego Bikes |
Nights Camped: 2013 - 242014 - 422015 - 56Jul 2016 - Fulltime
BamaBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 10:58 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 254
I went from a 32' double slide TT that weighed 8800 pounds to a 35' Salem 32srvp toy hauler Fw that weighs 11,000 loaded with toys. Pulled it with f250 gas v10 with no problem couldn't believe how much it towed better then TT could only drive 5-6 hours pulling TT drove almost 10 straight a few times with Fw. Looks like they may not make the 32srv or 32srvp anymore but was a GREAT size and weight for lighter 3/4 ton trucks.
CincyED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 11:48 PM   #11
Member
 
EnduroRdr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Ocean Springs, MS
Posts: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by wantahertzdonut View Post
I've been living and traveling full time in my first trailer, an 01 FR All American Sport 28FB. I tow it with a 97 F350 dually 7.3TD regular cab. It does ok but am looking to downsize my whole mess at some point, and I have a few ideas in mind.

A lot of people tell me how much easier 5th wheel trailers are to tow. I'm passed regularly on the highway by 3/4T or SRW 1T trucks towing massive 5th wheels (toy haulers and regular campers alike). I keep it under 60 for fuel consumption reasons, but traveling around the western US sucks at that pace, and again I'm quite jealous of the guys blowing by me with longer 5th wheel trailers and lighter duty trucks. It makes getting anywhere a bigger chore than it needs to be.

I have the toy hauler because I have 3 motorcycles in the back, but will shrink that to two when traveling in the future after I find a job and get into another house. It's only my girlfriend and I so we only need one bed and don't need much living space.

So I wonder, would a 5th wheel trailer of equivalent size truly be easier to tow, and allow me to carry a higher highway speed without murdering my fuel consumption? Would such a trailer be heavier or lighter than what I currently have?

Also, what is the shortest 5th wheel toy hauler on the market? I'd love to have one that is under 30' overall and doesn't have a super tall roof like most on the market. I'd even be happy with a side entry TH with the living space separated and in the back. Does anything like that exist?
I have had 3 campers, 2 of them toy haulers, one of them (the curent one) is a 5th wheel. I too had all the same concerns as you. My first camper was a toyhauler basicly a big square box bumper pull. Althought it was not that heavy, around 4000 lb dry, my mileage sucked. At that time I had an excursion with 7.3. it was like I hit a wall at around 65 mph. I blame the wind resistance but just to try and go another 6-10 mph I had to push the petal down a lot! and I was getting around 10mpg average.
One should note - the 7.3 with 373 gear starts to climb boost pressure above 5psi at around 70-72mph so keeping it 65 and under helps mpg a lot.
My next rig was not toy hauler - a V-nosed 31 ft bunk house at about 7000lb dry. My same 7.3 now got about 13mpg on flat ground at 65-70mph. So even though it was heaver the v-nose shape helped improve wind resistance considerably at crusing speeds. I sold the 7.3 and got a dodge 5.9 while owning the same v-nose camper - and mileage was slightly better yet. Now I could cruse the v-nose at about 70 and still get 13-14. But I wanted another toy hauler again. So now having some experence I knew that I wanted arodinamic shape (not many 5th wheels in that catagory) I also knew that weight is a factor so I wanted to stay under 7500 dry. I purchased teh ultru light "UL27" fifteh wheel from work and play. It has a rounded (horse trailer like) front end so it slips through the wind well and it was within my weight.
Now I am getting 15-16mpg at 65-70mph. How is that possible? Well as you pointed out hight is also a factor, this trailer is lower than my v-nose, and since it is 5th wheel it fits up closer to the cab than the bumper pulls did. I think this combanation allow the wind to go up over the trailer easy with out having to drop back down in bed infront of a trailer. This is the only explanation I can find but I am not complaining.
Just pointing out the considerations and concerns you brought up.
It tool me 3 trailers to figure all this out.
Low, arodynamic, light weight, all factors to consider!

To address your other questions, yes there are 5thwheels under 30 feet. And if you keep it under 10K lbs you can tow with SRW and regular 373 gears and still get decient mileage.

My rig:
__________________
2011 Work & Play 27UL and 2006 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9 Cummins.
EnduroRdr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 05:30 AM   #12
Phat Phrog Stunt Team
 
AquaMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tipp City, OH
Posts: 7,154
A lot of good points have been mentioned. One thing that I didn't see mentioned, was the age of your truck. Don't get me wrong, the 7.3 was/is a good motor, but today's diesels have about 2x the HP and another 3-4 hundred ft/lbs of torque over your specs. This goes a long way explaining why trucks with big 5ers are passing you with ease. They have virtually 2x the truck.
__________________
2016 Georgetown 364TS
2017 Jeep Rubicon Recon toad
Nights Camped 2019 - 17
AquaMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 03:19 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: chesapeake
Posts: 423
I had a 27 foot TT and pull at 55-60 mph with my 2008 f250 diesel 373 gears and got 10-11 mpg. I now have a 41 foot fiver and get 10-11 mpg going 55-60 mpg. go figure..... I allways keep my boost as low as I can when I take off from a dead stop. I allways keep my speed down due to all the things that can go wrong, ie tire, someone cut me off, etc. when the speed limit is 65 , I still do 60 frustrating people behind me, but its my family in there with me and my $ for fuel. I feel the speed limit is just that a "limit" the owners manuals all say to never go more than 55-60 mph. when I go camping I try very hard to NEVER be in a hurry.
quick83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 05:45 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 38
I have 4.10's so boost comes on hard much above 55. If it stays below 5psi my mileage goes up a bit.

EndurRdr- That's the exact profile trailer I had in mind. Nice to see something like that is out there. I may have to start shopping.

About truck power, I foolishly didn't take a modern diesel's extra power into consideration. An extra 100hp would make a big difference, but I would have assumed the extra size of the trailer would level the playing field.

I wouldn't want to go over 65 anyway, I assumed trailer tires were limited to that and don't need the hassle of a blowout on the highway or worse. I have seen 2 guys who flew by me on the side of the road sometime later with a shredded tire. I felt justified those days!

I'd like to keep my truck. An extra mpg would take a long time to pay down a difference in purchase price. I got mine rust free with 117k on it for $8k. I couldn't find a Duramax truck with anything less than double the mileage for double the price. I know they're good trucks but couldn't afford something like that. Or I didn't want to afford something like that, I should say.

I think when this trip is over I'd like to keep my truck but think the trailer will most definitely go. This has been a learning experience and have a better idea what I'd like to go with next.

Oh, my truck does have a raised cap on it too. I'm sure that helps a bit. Would mounting a flip-up spoiler help?
wantahertzdonut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 07:17 PM   #15
Phat Phrog Stunt Team
 
AquaMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tipp City, OH
Posts: 7,154
I think with the new nosecones and V fronts have made the spoilers obsolete. The truck cap definitely helps.
__________________
2016 Georgetown 364TS
2017 Jeep Rubicon Recon toad
Nights Camped 2019 - 17
AquaMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 07:26 PM   #16
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by wantahertzdonut View Post
I have 4.10's so boost comes on hard much above 55. If it stays below 5psi my mileage goes up a bit.

EndurRdr- That's the exact profile trailer I had in mind. Nice to see something like that is out there. I may have to start shopping.

About truck power, I foolishly didn't take a modern diesel's extra power into consideration. An extra 100hp would make a big difference, but I would have assumed the extra size of the trailer would level the playing field.

I wouldn't want to go over 65 anyway, I assumed trailer tires were limited to that and don't need the hassle of a blowout on the highway or worse. I have seen 2 guys who flew by me on the side of the road sometime later with a shredded tire. I felt justified those days!

I'd like to keep my truck. An extra mpg would take a long time to pay down a difference in purchase price. I got mine rust free with 117k on it for $8k. I couldn't find a Duramax truck with anything less than double the mileage for double the price. I know they're good trucks but couldn't afford something like that. Or I didn't want to afford something like that, I should say.

I think when this trip is over I'd like to keep my truck but think the trailer will most definitely go. This has been a learning experience and have a better idea what I'd like to go with next.

Oh, my truck does have a raised cap on it too. I'm sure that helps a bit. Would mounting a flip-up spoiler help?
I don't blame you for keeping it. I loved mine but I am on the road year round and efficiency(or lack of) was killing me. I still prefer the OBS Fords over any other. I miss her :-(
__________________
06 D-Max CC 4X4

2014 Wildcat 344QB-OK
EastTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 07:59 PM   #17
Member
 
EnduroRdr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Ocean Springs, MS
Posts: 91
Agreed - the newer aerodynamic trailers probably no gain from the spoilers. I tried to find a profile pic of my rig to show the hight relationship of trailer to truck roof. Mine is not way up there like other 5th wheels (where you can stand in the over hitch bedroom) so I think I am catching less wind to start with but I think the shape of the nose is the real reason my mileage is that good. In any case I am real happy with the mileage which is a good thing as we tend to take long trips hundreds of miles away from home.

__________________
2011 Work & Play 27UL and 2006 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9 Cummins.
EnduroRdr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 10:15 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
OL Creeker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In our CC.
Posts: 646
We went from a 21' TT to a 39' 5er with very little tow training needed. It's smoother on the bumps, tows easier, doesn't sway, backs easier.
On the open road, I maintain no more than 65 MPH, which gets me 11.2 MPG. I don't care how many pass me. There's no hurry.
IMHO, air bags are necessary for SRW in order to maintain a more stable, level 5er and to keep your headlights shining on the road.
__________________
Alan, Kathy & Cooper the camping cat
2014 Cedar Creek, 36CKTS
2013 GMC 2500 Denali
Duramax/Allison
Full timers since 5/30/2013
OL Creeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
5th wheel, wheel

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:47 PM.