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Old 01-01-2014, 01:28 PM   #41
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I need to add this.

While I was filling up with the non-ethanol premium, I struck up a conversation with another fellow who was filling gas cans. Turned out he was a local farmer. He did NOT like corn product going for fuel. Said it should be for food only. Then with a sweeping motion of arm he said "And those stupid things. They wouldn't be there if it wasn't for subsidies." He was pointing to windmills. And I have to agree.
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Old 01-01-2014, 01:54 PM   #42
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The idea of using sugar cane just seems weird I remember if you wanted to screw up someones engine you could put sugar in the gas tank, I rebuilt an engine that this had been done to years ago, not a pretty sight, but insurance covered the cost then.
Yep - but that sugar came out of a box or bag. This is a bit different kind of sugar.

Also - I buy most of my fuel (diesel and gas) in the local area from Murphys and have never seen non ethanol available.
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:10 PM   #43
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AHHH. Not when we are borrowing foreign money (read Chinese) to support the subsidies. AND more than 50% of the oil is domestically produced AND increasing with the advancements in horizontal drilling and fracking...
99% of ethanol "subsidies" ended 1 year ago today. Even when they existed, they were tax credits for producers and blenders so the cost was passed down to consumers. A tax credit is not money paid by the government. It is a loss of tax revenue that wouldn't have existed otherwise. So no money was borrowed to pay for the "subsidies" It was done this way to keep the federal gas tax the same and not to affect the highway trust fund. And the amount was supposed to offset the loss of efficiency. But they are gone now anyway, so the government now actually receives more money per mile via the federal gas tax with ethanol than without. Exactly the opposite of your claim.

Even now without them, the addition of ethanol to gasoline saves consumers billions of dollars and is better for the environment (even with the loss of efficiency).

And even if half of this country's oil is produced domestically, every gallon of ethanol used reduces 1/2 a gallon of foreign oil.

And even if all of our oil was produced domestically, I believe that ethanol is a better choice. Both environmentally and economically.
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:24 PM   #44
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99% of ethanol "subsidies" ended 1 year ago today...
I believe you should take a peek at this. http://www.taxpayer.net/library/arti...alive-and-well
Corn Ethanol Subsidies Are Alive and Well | Taxpayers for Common Sense

"Congress created a tax credit for ethanol use in the Energy Tax Act of 1978 whereby fuel blenders received $0.40 for each gallon of ethanol blended with gasoline. The credit’s successor, the $0.51 per gallon Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit (VEETC), was enacted in 2004 and reduced to $0.45 per gallon in the 2008 farm bill."
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:29 PM   #45
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I believe you should take a peek at this. Corn Ethanol Subsidies Are Alive and Well | Taxpayers for Common Sense
Corn Ethanol Subsidies Are Alive and Well | Taxpayers for Common Sense

"Congress created a tax credit for ethanol use in the Energy Tax Act of 1978 whereby fuel blenders received $0.40 for each gallon of ethanol blended with gasoline. The credit’s successor, the $0.51 per gallon Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit (VEETC), was enacted in 2004 and reduced to $0.45 per gallon in the 2008 farm bill."
Read on - VEETC expired at the end of 2011. Sorry, I'm wrong - it expired 2 years ago today

The rest of the "subsidies" listed are the other 1%.

Seriously, do you believe that the oil and gas industry receives no "subsidies"?
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:29 PM   #46
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Ok, we had a good run with this thread and avoiding the politics side of things. Might I remind everyone that discussing politics outside of their specific effect on RVing is off limits.

I'm leaving the thread open for now- but let's try to steer clear of the government side of things with this.
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Old 01-01-2014, 03:01 PM   #47
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This thread is about ethanol in the fuel you use in your RV.
It's NOT ABOUT GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES.

If you'd care to comment on ethanol as it relates to RVing go for it.
Otherwise- please don't.
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:22 PM   #48
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Well that is that.

I still think a GREAT use for ethanol (or methanol) is injected into the intake of a diesel engine. Woo Hoo that will get you up the hill lickitsplit. I continue to be suprized by the lack of devices to do this. It is the holy grail of horsepower. It can be metered to only be used under high load conditions.

Did lots of testing a decade or so ago, but it never went anywhere. It's similar to nitrous in gas engines.

Ethanol-Injection Systems Explained - Tech Dept. - Car and Driver
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:49 PM   #49
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Not in Virginia (NC & SC too) you have to hunt to find a station that carries gas with no ethanol I know of very few in my area. 99% here only carry gas with ethanol.
You would have to spend way too much time here in Indiana searching for a station that has 0% ethanol fuel. I have better things to do. I am 56 years old, have never owned a car newer than 2006, drive about 35K miles a year between personal use and work, and have never had any fuel related problems due to E10. IMHO it is a boogie-man that just doesn't exist.
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:02 PM   #50
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How does that old hot rodder phrase go ....... gas is for washing parts and alcohol is for drinking.
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