Another TV tire pressure question

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by wrvond

This is dangerous advice. In fact, anybody that advises anything contrary to what the manufacturer specifies is dispensing dangerous advice.
The maximum tire pressure molded into the sidewall of the tire does not take into account the pressure rating of the wheel it is mounted on or the rating of the valve stem that is installed.

Check with any tire manufacturer concerning recommended tire pressures and they will, without exception, defer to the vehicle manufacturer.


The day I decide that I am smarter than the engineering teams that designed and built my truck is the day I start building my own trucks (ain't gonna happen!).

you clearly don't know what your talking about . if your truck came with E-load rated tires and you run them at 55 psi under max load then your the dangerous one . the tire is rated at 80 psi under max load of around 3040 single . running an underinflated tire carrying load is dangerous and can cause the tire to fail . go read the side of your tire . if you have p rated tires at max 65 lbs then you can't run max . Ford set the tire pressure base on stock weight of the truck not with a max load and they set their pressures not for anything more then ride .

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by wrvond

This is dangerous advice. In fact, anybody that advises anything contrary to what the manufacturer specifies is dispensing dangerous advice.
The maximum tire pressure molded into the sidewall of the tire does not take into account the pressure rating of the wheel it is mounted on or the rating of the valve stem that is installed.

Check with any tire manufacturer concerning recommended tire pressures and they will, without exception, defer to the vehicle manufacturer.


The day I decide that I am smarter than the engineering teams that designed and built my truck is the day I start building my own trucks (ain't gonna happen!).

My 2008, Dodge Mega Cab 2500 Cummins, has two pressure settings for the rear tires if I am running stock tires. One setting is for a loaded condition and the other is unloaded. The loaded condition setting is 80 PSI and the unload is 45 PSI. Do to issues with the TPMS settings on these trucks, the Highway Administration issue a new rule for class three and down. That all tires on pick-up tires should be inflated to the maximum air pressure settings. Why? Because the younger generation of user now a days can't read a tire inflation gage.


I have the tire inflation table for Toyo Tires that is published for aftermarket use of their tires. This is what I use when I am running my summer towing tires on my truck these are LT285X70R 17 126R tires.

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by wrvond

Just finished reading the owner's manual for a 2017 2500 class Chevy truck.
Fun Fact: If you are going to be driving your truck at sustained speeds in excess of 100 mph, Chevy recommends increasing the cold inflation pressure of the tires by three (3) psi.
Otherwise, Chevy indicates the recommended tire pressure on the B-pillar placard be adhered to. No mention anywhere about increasing tire pressure to increase load capacity or decreasing pressure to soften the ride. They do, however, caution against over inflation and under inflation. That is, anything other than what is recommended on the B-pillar placard.


Just for grins I read the owner's manual for a 2017 Ram 2500. It said to ensure the wheels were equipped with properly seasoned wood only.
Seriously though, not surprisingly, it said the same thing as the other two. Use the cold inflation pressures listed on the B-pillar placard. Caution, do not over inflate or under inflate.

How 'bout that!

you can read but can't understand . just over your head . inside my door it recommends 80 psi read and 60 front . i run when unloaded 65 rear . I don't wear tire out prematurely and when loaded 80 psi and my front are always 70 psi . so how about you go get a bit more infor on tires and loads and then get back how about that

[wrvond]

Originally Posted by MR.M

you can read but can't understand . just over your head . inside my door it recommends 80 psi read and 60 front . i run when unloaded 65 rear . I don't wear tire out prematurely and when loaded 80 psi and my front are always 70 psi . so how about you go get a bit more infor on tires and loads and then get back how about that

You illustrate the concept of "willfully ignorant" flawlessly. I've shared irrefutable facts with you, yet you persist in your ignorance.
Don't bother replying, because I'm done with you.

[007matman]

Hilarious! LOL!!

[NMWildcat]

Now this is the typical tire thread we all know and love!!!!

[wrvond]

Originally Posted by 007matman

Hilarious! LOL!!

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

Now this is the typical tire thread we all know and love!!!!

I spent a quarter century in the Navy handling nuclear weapons. To be told I can't read and understand an owner's manual isn't just funny, it's

Sorry to cut your entertainment short, guys! (not really )

[NMWildcat]

Oh, it just continues to get better!!

[tonyz1]

Ok, maybe I'm sorry I asked! I agree that the manual says to follow the placard but then in paragraphs around that it talks about the max cold pressure and max load. In the tire supplement that came with the truck, it says to consult a tire dealer to set the right pressure for your load and particular trailer. Manufacturer double talk! So let's just all agree to disagree and each do what they feel is right. Sorry again for the fuss. Ask for thread to be closed.

[007matman]

People get all sorts of wound up about these things. Not sure why.

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by wrvond

You illustrate the concept of "willfully ignorant" flawlessly. I've shared irrefutable facts with you, yet you persist in your ignorance.
Don't bother replying, because I'm done with you.

No you haven't . your ignorance is astounding . no where it what you posted of the ford manual said anything about load . can't argue or fix stupid

[herewego]

Guys, FYI from last year. Couldn't sort out an answer from this forum, so I went to the "horse's mouth", Ford. See below Ford customer service reply. Michelin E tires on my 04 F-350 dually pulling 11,500 GVWR Heritage glen fiver. I asked Ford about tire inflation increase due to load. (Stock size tires on my truck.) They say, PSI on door sticker (60) is for the rated load as well as unloaded. Good enough for me. By the way, TPMS shows tire pressures all over the place depending on driving conditions. Do as you please but like the man said, I'm with the engineers, the door placard. However, once you change tire size, style, etc it may be time to ask the tire manufacturers?

"My name is Jaivette, I am from Ford`s Customer Relationship Center (CRC). I am reaching out to you in reference to our chat conversation on July 14, 2017 regarding the tire inflation for your vehicle.



I was able to consult with our on-site Subject Matter Expert and it was determined that the information listed on the placard is the recommended cold tire inflation pressure and is designed to meet the GVWR of 11,500lbs. Ford Motor Company does not recommend inflating the tire beyond the recommended pressure listed on the placard. The inflation pressure listed is the maximum for the tire and is the amount recommended by the tire manufacturer."



Thank you for contacting Ford Motor Company.

Sincerely,

Jaivette

Customer Relationship Center

Ford Motor Company
[/B]

[clr]

What one should really do is to have there units weighted by someone like the RVSEF Recreation Vehicle Safety Education Foundation and then follow there recommendation regarding weights and limits and tire pressure while towing. When I had this done to my rig they stated that 56% of the fifth wheel units that they weigh were exceeding at least one limit of there configuration.
I drive a 2010 Ford F350 CC dual wheel truck, this truck is equipped with load range E tires max PSI 80 pounds of air. My column sticker says 75 PSI Front and 60 PSI rear. The tires are rated in dual configuration at 80 PSI to be able to carry 2910 pounds each. The tires are rated in single configuration at 80 PSI to be able to carry 3195 pounds.
My truck with camper connected is 2650 pounds load on the front tires so this would
require a tire pressure of only 65 pounds to handle the load but Ford recommends 75 PSI. With the truck loaded or unloaded with the fifth wheel the front tire carries the same identical weight. So I always keep the truck front tires at the placard recommended 75 PSI. The rear tires of the truck carry all of the additional weight of the fifth wheel in my case 3625 pounds so the rear axle of my truck is carrying 7,450 pounds including the fifth wheel weight. This weight is under my rear axle capacity of 9,000 pounds. So technically I could run 60 PSI in my rear tires and be very close to max weight carrying capacity for the load. The RVSEF stated that I should run at least 65 PSI in the rears for a slight safety margin. I run my rear tires at 70 PSI while towing so that I have an increased safety margin. Being an engineer I believe in safety margins. So if I am on a long trip I run them at 70 PSI, if I am running around and not planning on towing I may run them at 60 PSI for increased ride comfort.
As to P radial tires on half ton truck. First I do not think P radial tires and meant for any meaningful towing. But if you do tow with them they should be run at max tire side wall recommendations.

[katkt]

Originally Posted by tonyz1

Ok, maybe I'm sorry I asked! I agree that the manual says to follow the placard but then in paragraphs around that it talks about the max cold pressure and max load. In the tire supplement that came with the truck, it says to consult a tire dealer to set the right pressure for your load and particular trailer. Manufacturer double talk! So let's just all agree to disagree and each do what they feel is right. Sorry again for the fuss. Ask for thread to be closed.

That’s the jist of it. Don’t feel bad about the fuss. It’s actually great entertainment.
Ford sells and builds trucks, not tires.
If there is anything in Fords or anybody else’s manual(s) that gets them sued, then we’ll be reading about another white collar layoff, and Ford will be shopping for another law firm to rewrite stuff so no matter what, it won’t be their fault.
More then anything else, Ford emphasizes not letting the pressure get below what’s on the door frame, and checking the tires monthly. Ford also hints/encourages the idea of checking with the tire manufacturer if you have further questions.They do this on purpose. They realize their advice /recommendations have certain limitations. Even so, if you don’t follow their advice, you’re liable for any broken bits, not Ford.

I too have noticed a tendency to post a Readers Digest version of the tire inflation section of the owners manual, and skip the areas you mention, where Ford basically says, and I’m paraphrasing” we warranty this vehicle to be fine if you follow our advice”........however, “if” then you need to talk to the tire manufacturer regarding inflation and loading questions. Why? Liability. Ford’s only liable for what they recommend.

Most of the “go with what’s on the door” guys, are already running trucks with tires that can be inflated to 80psi. Or, have 80 or 60+ on the door. The main reason being, the trucks they have, were sold as trucks for hauling heavy loads. 250’s, 350’s, and 450’s. Ford expects they will be using them for that purpose, and shoes them accordingly. This entire discussion is of no concern to them other then bragging rights about how they have a bigger PU.

My 2010 F150 Screw 4x4, had 40 on the door post. Think of it wearing a nice cross trainer/hiker, instead of a 9 inch lace up workbook.
When I hitched up my #7000 TT, it didn’t take long to realize 55 in the rear(max cold pressure for those tires), and 50 in the front made the rig handle much better. A little more ankle support is on the agenda, but Ford doesn’t care, because even though it’s not the best, the truck will drag the trailer with the tires inflated to the pressure Ford has decided to be liable for.

So what do we do? I chose to inflate my tires to the max cold pressure, or, more then the door, instead of buying a bigger truck. I’m fine with that. So is the Tire manufacturer. That’s why it’s on the sidewall. Fords fine with it also, but they’re only liable for 40psi. That’s why if you ask Ford, they’ll tell you an answer based on their liability, but kind of give a sideways nod about “go ask that guy”. Why would they spend millions of dollars to determine a good best answer that will cover a lot of different scenarios, and then give a different answer when asked. As the man said, “What did you expect them to say”.

The Tire manufacturer sets the max. Ford recommends what to do, based on what the truck was built to do, and also gives a “don’t go below this psi if you know what’s good for you” to follow.
Ford had to put something there. What’s there is a best guess as far as expected loading based on the chassis , because Ford doesn’t have a clue what the new owner of their product will do with it.
They do know, that at the recommended inflation on the door, my pickup can carry another #1306(4 or 5 Bama fans before the buffet).
That’s all the further Fords sticking their neck out. Ford knows if they establish parameters of liability(the jobs of lawyers and the white collar crowd)they are better off. That’s what they do. Simple CYA. It has nothing to do with perfect solutions, only the best answer.

In my case, the F150 I own, is considered more of a all around PU. It has a Trailer Tow package(3.55’s, 32 gal tank and tranny cooler)but not the HD package(3.73’s 6’ bed fancie smancie trannie etc.). My PU according to Ford, can tow up to #9200’s, and has a Payload of #1306. Ford tells me I have to use a WDH hitch, if my TW ends up where mine is.
But wait? Ford didn’t tell me a specific WDH. Why? They don’t care they’re not selling it to me, it’s for me to figure out. They aren’t liable.
Ford also tells me the max weight they’re liable for on the axles. Go over it and something breaks, it’s on my dime not theirs. Liability once again.

When my chassis was spec’d at the plant, they saw my truck hauling groceries and kids or deer hunting, more then heavy loads, and had a tire better suited for that dual purpose installed on the truck. The cushy crosstrainer. Happy wife, happy life. Smooth ride, smiling faces. The comfort zone. “Feels so gooooood”. They put a tire on the truck better suited for general purpose. Why? Because they make HD trucks, and this one is something else.
What did I do? I hitched it to something the engineers said my truck could do, but wasn’t really spec’d to handle.
Will it tow with 40 in the tires? Sure. That’s good enough for Ford.
Will it tow better if the tires are inflated above the door recommendation? I think so, but Ford doesn’t care.
They are only concerned about liability. If somebody thinks it tows better above the recommended pressure, then Ford shifts the liability to the vehicle owner, and the tire manufacturer. They are liable at what they recommend, and nothing more.

I just re-shoed my PU. In the sprit of tearing the warning label off of mattresses, I went to a tire more suited to load carrying. I’m much happier. It’s a 10 ply, with a slightly taller sidewall. Ford doesn’t care. They aren’t liable. Ford was only liable for a tire like those they installed at the factory, at 40psi.
Just because the tire says max inflation, doesn’t mean I have to do it. As long as I adhere to the manufacturers inflation and loading, and am careful not to abuse the wheel the tire is mounted on, IMHO, no harm no foul......and Ford doesn’t care, because I didn’t ask their opinion, and I’m not following their recommendation, so they aren’t liable.

[tonyz1]

I want to thank everyone for your replies, and to herewego, clr, katkt thanks for your in-depth explanations. I too went to a Ford dealership and asked what they recommend. And of course they said to follow their recommendations on the truck placard. Myself, I have been adding pressure to the back tires for the past 17 years of towing. Maybe I was wrong in doing that according to Ford or maybe I was right according to my tire dealer. Like I said earlier, we can agree to disagree on this one and just go on and camp and have fun! Thanks again and I promise- no more tire questions from me!

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by katkt

That’s the jist of it. Don’t feel bad about the fuss. It’s actually great entertainment.
Ford sells and builds trucks, not tires.
If there is anything in Fords or anybody else’s manual(s) that gets them sued, then we’ll be reading about another white collar layoff, and Ford will be shopping for another law firm to rewrite stuff so no matter what, it won’t be their fault.
More then anything else, Ford emphasizes not letting the pressure get below what’s on the door frame, and checking the tires monthly. Ford also hints/encourages the idea of checking with the tire manufacturer if you have further questions.They do this on purpose. They realize their advice /recommendations have certain limitations. Even so, if you don’t follow their advice, you’re liable for any broken bits, not Ford.

I too have noticed a tendency to post a Readers Digest version of the tire inflation section of the owners manual, and skip the areas you mention, where Ford basically says, and I’m paraphrasing” we warranty this vehicle to be fine if you follow our advice”........however, “if” then you need to talk to the tire manufacturer regarding inflation and loading questions. Why? Liability. Ford’s only liable for what they recommend.

Most of the “go with what’s on the door” guys, are already running trucks with tires that can be inflated to 80psi. Or, have 80 or 60+ on the door. The main reason being, the trucks they have, were sold as trucks for hauling heavy loads. 250’s, 350’s, and 450’s. Ford expects they will be using them for that purpose, and shoes them accordingly. This entire discussion is of no concern to them other then bragging rights about how they have a bigger PU.

My 2010 F150 Screw 4x4, had 40 on the door post. Think of it wearing a nice cross trainer/hiker, instead of a 9 inch lace up workbook.
When I hitched up my #7000 TT, it didn’t take long to realize 55 in the rear(max cold pressure for those tires), and 50 in the front made the rig handle much better. A little more ankle support is on the agenda, but Ford doesn’t care, because even though it’s not the best, the truck will drag the trailer with the tires inflated to the pressure Ford has decided to be liable for.

So what do we do? I chose to inflate my tires to the max cold pressure, or, more then the door, instead of buying a bigger truck. I’m fine with that. So is the Tire manufacturer. That’s why it’s on the sidewall. Fords fine with it also, but they’re only liable for 40psi. That’s why if you ask Ford, they’ll tell you an answer based on their liability, but kind of give a sideways nod about “go ask that guy”. Why would they spend millions of dollars to determine a good best answer that will cover a lot of different scenarios, and then give a different answer when asked. As the man said, “What did you expect them to say”.

The Tire manufacturer sets the max. Ford recommends what to do, based on what the truck was built to do, and also gives a “don’t go below this psi if you know what’s good for you” to follow.
Ford had to put something there. What’s there is a best guess as far as expected loading based on the chassis , because Ford doesn’t have a clue what the new owner of their product will do with it.
They do know, that at the recommended inflation on the door, my pickup can carry another #1306(4 or 5 Bama fans before the buffet).
That’s all the further Fords sticking their neck out. Ford knows if they establish parameters of liability(the jobs of lawyers and the white collar crowd)they are better off. That’s what they do. Simple CYA. It has nothing to do with perfect solutions, only the best answer.

In my case, the F150 I own, is considered more of a all around PU. It has a Trailer Tow package(3.55’s, 32 gal tank and tranny cooler)but not the HD package(3.73’s 6’ bed fancie smancie trannie etc.). My PU according to Ford, can tow up to #9200’s, and has a Payload of #1306. Ford tells me I have to use a WDH hitch, if my TW ends up where mine is.
But wait? Ford didn’t tell me a specific WDH. Why? They don’t care they’re not selling it to me, it’s for me to figure out. They aren’t liable.
Ford also tells me the max weight they’re liable for on the axles. Go over it and something breaks, it’s on my dime not theirs. Liability once again.

When my chassis was spec’d at the plant, they saw my truck hauling groceries and kids or deer hunting, more then heavy loads, and had a tire better suited for that dual purpose installed on the truck. The cushy crosstrainer. Happy wife, happy life. Smooth ride, smiling faces. The comfort zone. “Feels so gooooood”. They put a tire on the truck better suited for general purpose. Why? Because they make HD trucks, and this one is something else.
What did I do? I hitched it to something the engineers said my truck could do, but wasn’t really spec’d to handle.
Will it tow with 40 in the tires? Sure. That’s good enough for Ford.
Will it tow better if the tires are inflated above the door recommendation? I think so, but Ford doesn’t care.
They are only concerned about liability. If somebody thinks it tows better above the recommended pressure, then Ford shifts the liability to the vehicle owner, and the tire manufacturer. They are liable at what they recommend, and nothing more.

I just re-shoed my PU. In the sprit of tearing the warning label off of mattresses, I went to a tire more suited to load carrying. I’m much happier. It’s a 10 ply, with a slightly taller sidewall. Ford doesn’t care. They aren’t liable. Ford was only liable for a tire like those they installed at the factory, at 40psi.
Just because the tire says max inflation, doesn’t mean I have to do it. As long as I adhere to the manufacturers inflation and loading, and am careful not to abuse the wheel the tire is mounted on, IMHO, no harm no foul......and Ford doesn’t care, because I didn’t ask their opinion, and I’m not following their recommendation, so they aren’t liable.

WELL SAID x2
the manufactures are trying to idiot proof things . They can't get people to check their tire pressure in the fisrt place which is why the mandatory tpms systems after 2007 or there about. let alone have enough since that when load is increased they may need to had more psi to the tires . keep it simple come up with a standard middle ground psi that will work ok across the board . is it the best no but it keeps them off the hook as they point to the tire sidewall ratings recommendations . Idiot proof and making people even more stupid

[ard58]

enough already

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by ard58

enough already

X2! Yet another never ending, multiple choice, never answered, doesn't matter, tire thread. LOL!!!

[ProAngler]

Originally Posted by wrvond

Tony, read your owner's manual. It specifically says to run the tire pressures indicated on the tire safety data plate on the driver's door frame. Further, it says to use those pressures whether loaded or unloaded.

Ford is very clear about this.

Yes running max pressure on any tire is crazy!!!!!!!!!! you will gain up to 5lb when heated up and now youll be over max pressure. i always run 10 psi under max pressure when loaded and 15 when not.

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by ProAngler

Yes running max pressure on any tire is crazy!!!!!!!!!! you will gain up to 5lb when heated up and now youll be over max pressure. i always run 10 psi under max pressure when loaded and 15 when not.

OMG! It's COLD Max psi. It takes into account the psi gain for when your tire heats up. I tell myself to never read tire threads, but I guess I can't help myself . Some posts just yell for a response.