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Old 03-15-2019, 11:46 AM   #21
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The campgrounds are merely trying to enforce state laws. Unless the private cg owners have a huge lobby in each state, I doubt the intent is making money.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:58 AM   #22
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I personally believe that these bug infestations are just part of the earth's natural evolution...

And humans have taken it upon themselves to believe that they can actually stop it from happening.

You are not taking into account the thousands of pallets and shipping crates from oversea that get shipped every day all over the American continent that the non-native beetles, worms, fungus, and diseases are coming in with. And these pallets and crates are not kiln dried or treated to eliminate the pests.

You may ask how do I know? The company I worked for imported tons of machinery parts by the semi load from China and large bearings from Germany. Many of the parts were made to order and placed 6 months in advanced. The company would order 300-400 hammers at a time for our car shredder from China. The company did not want to pay an extra $50 per hammer from a Canadian manufacturer or $60 more from a US manufacturer.

The new shredder we installed in 2014 was cast in China, sold by a long time US company bought 5 years earlier by a German corporation.
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:00 PM   #23
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It is a very real problem. Check out the link below by scrolling through the timeline. Although the insects do move on their own, the majority of the movement is caused by transporting wood. Unfortunately many jurisdictions use state or county lines to implement movement controls for lack of a better solution.
Emerald Ash Borer | Timelines

FlyBob you are definitely correct that we have and are contributing to a number of different problems such as contributing by moving contaminated wood (wood pallets had the Ash Borer) or with the change in climate (not cold enough to kill the Pine Bark Beetle) or artificial waterways (Carp in Lake Michigan) And dumping bilge water which brought Zebra Mussels to Lake Erie. Or children suffering from Measles or Tetanus.

Too many think that a few cord of wood or a couple of carp or few hundred gals of contaminated water to a few dozen ppm of CO2 can't make a difference but each bit of contamination does contribute.

Some can choose to try and ignore facts and Science but the facts and reality will eventually win.
The Earth will continue but we may no longer be able to feed a population of 7.5 Billion. We already have Millions starving every year now with 800 Million not getting enough to eat to have a healthy life. I do wonder what is considered the acceptable number of starvation deaths a year.

Some seem to think they are special and should be allowed to do whatever they want, even when others may suffer as a result.
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:08 PM   #24
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You are not taking into account the thousands of pallets and shipping crates from oversea that get shipped every day all over the American continent that the non-native beetles, worms, fungus, and diseases are coming in with.
Of course I am...

After all...aren't humans also a part of the natural evolution of the planet?

When the earth has had enough of us...it will get rid of us!



For the record...I don't do campfires anymore...

And I don't believe that they are a "right of camping passage", either.
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Old 03-15-2019, 01:05 PM   #25
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I personally believe that these bug infestations are just part of the earth's natural evolution...

And humans have taken it upon themselves to believe that they can actually stop it from happening.
Absolutely a part of natural process However the lack of good management has made it go from problem to full blown infestations . you'r from Colorado you should know about the millions of dead firs from the pine beetle the the forest service knew about long before it was noticed by the public or by the millions of dead trees .,There policies have made it worse by stopping logging were it needed to be done before the massive spread and now stopping the logging of the dead trees to a degree that is making huge fire hazards . it's just a matter of when not if these whole forests go because of the lack of insight and poor management from the forest service .
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Old 03-15-2019, 01:10 PM   #26
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Of course I am...

After all...aren't humans also a part of the natural evolution of the planet?

When the earth has had enough of us...it will get rid of us!



For the record...I don't do campfires anymore...

And I don't believe that they are a "right of camping passage", either.
I agree, camp fires should not be used as "rite of camping passage", since camp fires are not normally used for ceremonies nor initiations.... though they do make long lasting good memories with the kids and some great memories with the adults
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Old 03-15-2019, 03:48 PM   #27
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Absolutely a part of natural process However the lack of good management has made it go from problem to full blown infestations . you'r from Colorado you should know about the millions of dead firs from the pine beetle the the forest service knew about long before it was noticed by the public or by the millions of dead trees .,There policies have made it worse by stopping logging were it needed to be done before the massive spread and now stopping the logging of the dead trees to a degree that is making huge fire hazards . it's just a matter of when not if these whole forests go because of the lack of insight and poor management from the forest service .

having visited BC in 2014 and seen the results of Pine Bark beetle I also learned and saw first hand the problem with trying to "harvest" the deat trees. Yes you can cut them down but they are extremely flammible and have the strength of rotten balsa wood. If logging were permitted some would then sell this punk wood to unsuspecting consumers who would then see houses fall down and or burn like kindling. Info here http://www.uwyo.edu/barnbackyard/_fi...r-2008-web.pdf


Also "Reductions of 30 to 40 percent in toughness values at 12 months since foliage were reported."
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Old 03-15-2019, 05:50 PM   #28
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Banning outside firewood

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Ash borers , pine Beatles . al, are mostly because of poor management by the forest service . Now because they have done such a bum job of managing the forests we need to be extra careful not to make it worse . local wood is always to way to go . Have never been in a campground that banned firewood or required you to buy theirs . when i yellowstone i cut my own out side the park. plenty of places for that . though the gas unit is looking better all the time as i hate the smoke smell also


Not necessarily. Many forest pests have been imported in nursery stock. The Ash Emerald Borer is a prime example, as in Chestnut Blight, Elm Leaf Beetle. Forest Management has been driven by law suits and threats thereof for several decades, not the science that professional Foresters are trained in. Much of the once thriving Forest industry (particularly in the West) has disappeared due to "environmentalist activism" which in turn has resulted in overly dense stands which has lead to rapid spread of endemic forest disease, and higher resistance to fire suppression efforts etc. In short "the real answer isn't as simple as you think".
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:14 PM   #29
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having visited BC in 2014 and seen the results of Pine Bark beetle I also learned and saw first hand the problem with trying to "harvest" the deat trees. Yes you can cut them down but they are extremely flammible and have the strength of rotten balsa wood. If logging were permitted some would then sell this punk wood to unsuspecting consumers who would then see houses fall down and or burn like kindling. Info here http://www.uwyo.edu/barnbackyard/_fi...r-2008-web.pdf


Also "Reductions of 30 to 40 percent in toughness values at 12 months since foliage were reported."
That's not true . when they leave them for years they rot . but harvested with in a reasonable time frame the wood is very beautiful with blue hues , and sought after . there is a great market for it if they would allow the logging as needed , and also the logging to thin out some areas before the pine beetle gets a foot hold . the thicker the forest the more devastating the pine beetle.https://www.marketplace.org/2015/04/...ould-soon-bust THE PROBLEM is they waited to long this should have started 20 years ago poor management https://www.pinterest.com/pin/536069161890866726/ . Forest service is to slow to act and when it does it does it backwards .typical government agency . I've lived in Colorado for the last 36 yrs i watched it all happen
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:21 PM   #30
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Over all these many years of camping I've bought a ton of camping equipment. Most of it junk. Now residing in a pile in the barn ready for the dumpster. But one of the best things I've acquired was my gas fire pit. No smoke, the camper and cloths don't stink and it's better for the environment and I don't choke out my neighbors. Woods fine if that's what one just has to do. But these gas fire pits are so much easier to deal with.
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:24 PM   #31
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Over all these many years of camping I've bought a ton of camping equipment. Most of it junk. Now residing in a pile in the barn ready for the dumpster. But one of the best things I've acquired was my gas fire pit. No smoke, the camper and cloths don't stink and it's better for the environment and I don't choke out my neighbors. Woods fine if that's what one just has to do. But these gas fire pits are so much easier to deal with.
wood is good and has it place but i like the idea of Gas also . there is also an attack on GAS plenty of don't drill out there and many who oppose all drilling .
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Old 03-16-2019, 07:17 AM   #32
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wood is good and has it place but i like the idea of Gas also . there is also an attack on GAS plenty of don't drill out there and many who oppose all drilling .
Very true. But until they figure out how to perfect the electric truck that can tow 15+ thousands pounds of 5th wheel. No drill, No tow. Or there's always hydrogen based fuel from sea water
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Old 03-16-2019, 08:06 AM   #33
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FlyBob you are definitely correct that we have and are contributing to a number of different problems such as contributing by moving contaminated wood (wood pallets had the Ash Borer) or with the change in climate (not cold enough to kill the Pine Bark Beetle) or artificial waterways (Carp in Lake Michigan) And dumping bilge water which brought Zebra Mussels to Lake Erie. Or children suffering from Measles or Tetanus.

Too many think that a few cord of wood or a couple of carp or few hundred gals of contaminated water to a few dozen ppm of CO2 can't make a difference but each bit of contamination does contribute.

Some can choose to try and ignore facts and Science but the facts and reality will eventually win.
The Earth will continue but we may no longer be able to feed a population of 7.5 Billion. We already have Millions starving every year now with 800 Million not getting enough to eat to have a healthy life. I do wonder what is considered the acceptable number of starvation deaths a year.

Some seem to think they are special and should be allowed to do whatever they want, even when others may suffer as a result.
That's not because we can't grow enough food it's because it's not profitable . capitalism has it down side to . Climate change is a normal thing and the pendulum swings
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Old 03-16-2019, 08:42 AM   #34
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The next devastating invasive species is on the move, Spotted Lanternfly. This one moves on just about anything. It has been found they seem to have a thing for traveling on rusted metal. They feed on soft tissue. A grape farm in eastern PA lost 90% of their crop last year to Spotted Lanternfly.

https://www.agriculture.pa.gov/Plant...s/default.aspx
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Old 03-16-2019, 09:07 AM   #35
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The next devastating invasive species is on the move, Spotted Lanternfly. This one moves on just about anything. It has been found they seem to have a thing for traveling on rusted metal. They feed on soft tissue. A grape farm in eastern PA lost 90% of their crop last year to Spotted Lanternfly.

https://www.agriculture.pa.gov/Plant...s/default.aspx

Photo for reference.
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Old 03-16-2019, 09:13 AM   #36
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Another good article with pics.

https://entomologytoday.org/2018/02/...ct-hitchhiker/
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Old 03-16-2019, 09:51 AM   #37
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hard to stop whats all ready here . but the best thing is to stop all imports and exports . Illegal aliens hitch hikers cause lots of issues . the zebra mussel has spread to many western waters and is killing entire ecosystems came from boat ballast Tanks . The asian carp . taking over the Mississippi, Missouri, Illinois rivers are just a few of the spread . released by asians wanting to have the same food here as at home . Killer bees created by dumb scientists in effort to have bees that make more honey got the opposite result . pythons in the everglades , along with many other reptiles , the nutria a large rat , starlings because the English wanted to feel at home here .
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:20 AM   #38
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The next devastating invasive species is on the move...
Yes...they are on the move, alright...they are called...

RV'ers...

Invading the woods everywhere!

And they look like this (for reference) and the woods look like this when they are finished with their invasion:
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:35 AM   #39
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I take 2x4’s to burn. Construction sites will give you all the scraps you want. Just cut them to whatever you want. I have had some campgrounds tell me I can’t bring it in until I ask them what their offices are built from and that kiln dried lumber is moved all over the country.
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:53 AM   #40
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I have an old deck that currently supplies my fire needs. No limitations on my firewood most places I go. If there is we follow the rules. The rule that kills me is the no collecting of firewood in Texas State Parks. I am sure they have reason for the rule, but all I see is the dead wood adding fuel to a forest fire and not my fire. Allowing to gather the downed trees or wood also improves the looks of the park.
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