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03-15-2019, 11:46 AM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 1,075
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The campgrounds are merely trying to enforce state laws. Unless the private cg owners have a huge lobby in each state, I doubt the intent is making money.
__________________
Lee and Anne
2016 F250 2WD CC SB XLT 6.2 3,295 lb payload cap.
2014 Salem Hemisphere 282RK 8k lbs loaded, Equal-i-zer WDH, TST 507 TPMS
2021: 35 nights already booked so far
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03-15-2019, 11:58 AM
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#22
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Just as confused as you
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: south central Wisconsin
Posts: 5,108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnD10
I personally believe that these bug infestations are just part of the earth's natural evolution...
And humans have taken it upon themselves to believe that they can actually stop it from happening.
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You are not taking into account the thousands of pallets and shipping crates from oversea that get shipped every day all over the American continent that the non-native beetles, worms, fungus, and diseases are coming in with. And these pallets and crates are not kiln dried or treated to eliminate the pests.
You may ask how do I know? The company I worked for imported tons of machinery parts by the semi load from China and large bearings from Germany. Many of the parts were made to order and placed 6 months in advanced. The company would order 300-400 hammers at a time for our car shredder from China. The company did not want to pay an extra $50 per hammer from a Canadian manufacturer or $60 more from a US manufacturer.
The new shredder we installed in 2014 was cast in China, sold by a long time US company bought 5 years earlier by a German corporation.
__________________
Richard & Jill
2014 Flagstaff 832IKBS Classic Super Lite
2018 Silverado 1500 Crew Cab Z71 4WD All Star Edition
Camping since 1989, Seasonal since 2000.
Car Shredder Op/Tech, Scrap Metal Recycling - retired
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03-15-2019, 12:00 PM
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#23
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Commercial Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 1,889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flybob
It is a very real problem. Check out the link below by scrolling through the timeline. Although the insects do move on their own, the majority of the movement is caused by transporting wood. Unfortunately many jurisdictions use state or county lines to implement movement controls for lack of a better solution.
Emerald Ash Borer | Timelines
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FlyBob you are definitely correct that we have and are contributing to a number of different problems such as contributing by moving contaminated wood (wood pallets had the Ash Borer) or with the change in climate (not cold enough to kill the Pine Bark Beetle) or artificial waterways (Carp in Lake Michigan) And dumping bilge water which brought Zebra Mussels to Lake Erie. Or children suffering from Measles or Tetanus.
Too many think that a few cord of wood or a couple of carp or few hundred gals of contaminated water to a few dozen ppm of CO2 can't make a difference but each bit of contamination does contribute.
Some can choose to try and ignore facts and Science but the facts and reality will eventually win.
The Earth will continue but we may no longer be able to feed a population of 7.5 Billion. We already have Millions starving every year now with 800 Million not getting enough to eat to have a healthy life. I do wonder what is considered the acceptable number of starvation deaths a year.
Some seem to think they are special and should be allowed to do whatever they want, even when others may suffer as a result.
__________________
.Write a blog on RV tire application RV Tire Safety. 48 years experience as tire design & forensic engineer. My RV Freelander 23QB on Chevy 4500 chassis. Giving seminars on RV Tire applications (not selling)@ FMCA Conventions. Mar 20-22 Tucson AZ
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03-15-2019, 12:08 PM
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#24
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Denver To Yuma In 90 Days
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Yuma, Arizona
Posts: 3,882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper
You are not taking into account the thousands of pallets and shipping crates from oversea that get shipped every day all over the American continent that the non-native beetles, worms, fungus, and diseases are coming in with.
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Of course I am...
After all...aren't humans also a part of the natural evolution of the planet?
When the earth has had enough of us...it will get rid of us!
For the record...I don't do campfires anymore...
And I don't believe that they are a "right of camping passage", either.
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03-15-2019, 01:05 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 4,043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnD10
I personally believe that these bug infestations are just part of the earth's natural evolution...
And humans have taken it upon themselves to believe that they can actually stop it from happening.
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Absolutely a part of natural process However the lack of good management has made it go from problem to full blown infestations . you'r from Colorado you should know about the millions of dead firs from the pine beetle the the forest service knew about long before it was noticed by the public or by the millions of dead trees .,There policies have made it worse by stopping logging were it needed to be done before the massive spread and now stopping the logging of the dead trees to a degree that is making huge fire hazards . it's just a matter of when not if these whole forests go because of the lack of insight and poor management from the forest service .
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03-15-2019, 01:10 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnD10
Of course I am...
After all...aren't humans also a part of the natural evolution of the planet?
When the earth has had enough of us...it will get rid of us!
For the record...I don't do campfires anymore...
And I don't believe that they are a "right of camping passage", either.
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I agree, camp fires should not be used as " rite of camping passage", since camp fires are not normally used for ceremonies nor initiations.... though they do make long lasting good memories with the kids and some great memories with the adults
__________________
2018 Shasta Oasis 18BH
2005 Mercury Mountaineer V8 w/ tow package
Husky Center Line Towing System
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03-15-2019, 03:48 PM
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#27
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Commercial Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 1,889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR.M
Absolutely a part of natural process However the lack of good management has made it go from problem to full blown infestations . you'r from Colorado you should know about the millions of dead firs from the pine beetle the the forest service knew about long before it was noticed by the public or by the millions of dead trees .,There policies have made it worse by stopping logging were it needed to be done before the massive spread and now stopping the logging of the dead trees to a degree that is making huge fire hazards . it's just a matter of when not if these whole forests go because of the lack of insight and poor management from the forest service .
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having visited BC in 2014 and seen the results of Pine Bark beetle I also learned and saw first hand the problem with trying to "harvest" the deat trees. Yes you can cut them down but they are extremely flammible and have the strength of rotten balsa wood. If logging were permitted some would then sell this punk wood to unsuspecting consumers who would then see houses fall down and or burn like kindling. Info here http://www.uwyo.edu/barnbackyard/_fi...r-2008-web.pdf
Also "Reductions of 30 to 40 percent in toughness values at 12 months since foliage were reported."
__________________
.Write a blog on RV tire application RV Tire Safety. 48 years experience as tire design & forensic engineer. My RV Freelander 23QB on Chevy 4500 chassis. Giving seminars on RV Tire applications (not selling)@ FMCA Conventions. Mar 20-22 Tucson AZ
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03-15-2019, 05:50 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,301
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Banning outside firewood
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR.M
Ash borers , pine Beatles . al, are mostly because of poor management by the forest service . Now because they have done such a bum job of managing the forests we need to be extra careful not to make it worse . local wood is always to way to go . Have never been in a campground that banned firewood or required you to buy theirs . when i yellowstone i cut my own out side the park. plenty of places for that . though the gas unit is looking better all the time as i hate the smoke smell also
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Not necessarily. Many forest pests have been imported in nursery stock. The Ash Emerald Borer is a prime example, as in Chestnut Blight, Elm Leaf Beetle. Forest Management has been driven by law suits and threats thereof for several decades, not the science that professional Foresters are trained in. Much of the once thriving Forest industry (particularly in the West) has disappeared due to "environmentalist activism" which in turn has resulted in overly dense stands which has lead to rapid spread of endemic forest disease, and higher resistance to fire suppression efforts etc. In short "the real answer isn't as simple as you think".
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03-15-2019, 07:14 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 4,043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9
having visited BC in 2014 and seen the results of Pine Bark beetle I also learned and saw first hand the problem with trying to "harvest" the deat trees. Yes you can cut them down but they are extremely flammible and have the strength of rotten balsa wood. If logging were permitted some would then sell this punk wood to unsuspecting consumers who would then see houses fall down and or burn like kindling. Info here http://www.uwyo.edu/barnbackyard/_fi...r-2008-web.pdf
Also "Reductions of 30 to 40 percent in toughness values at 12 months since foliage were reported."
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That's not true . when they leave them for years they rot . but harvested with in a reasonable time frame the wood is very beautiful with blue hues , and sought after . there is a great market for it if they would allow the logging as needed , and also the logging to thin out some areas before the pine beetle gets a foot hold . the thicker the forest the more devastating the pine beetle. https://www.marketplace.org/2015/04/...ould-soon-bust THE PROBLEM is they waited to long this should have started 20 years ago poor management https://www.pinterest.com/pin/536069161890866726/ . Forest service is to slow to act and when it does it does it backwards .typical government agency . I've lived in Colorado for the last 36 yrs i watched it all happen
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03-15-2019, 07:21 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: South East
Posts: 996
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Over all these many years of camping I've bought a ton of camping equipment. Most of it junk. Now residing in a pile in the barn ready for the dumpster. But one of the best things I've acquired was my gas fire pit. No smoke, the camper and cloths don't stink and it's better for the environment and I don't choke out my neighbors. Woods fine if that's what one just has to do. But these gas fire pits are so much easier to deal with.
__________________
Retired Fire Dept Battalion Chief
2016 Ever-Lite 232RBS
2012 F150 FX4 W/Max tow & Ecoboost (Best tv ever)
2018 F250 Lariat (ok but I miss my F150)
Getting old ain't for wimps!!!
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03-15-2019, 07:24 PM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 4,043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormrider151
Over all these many years of camping I've bought a ton of camping equipment. Most of it junk. Now residing in a pile in the barn ready for the dumpster. But one of the best things I've acquired was my gas fire pit. No smoke, the camper and cloths don't stink and it's better for the environment and I don't choke out my neighbors. Woods fine if that's what one just has to do. But these gas fire pits are so much easier to deal with.
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wood is good and has it place but i like the idea of Gas also . there is also an attack on GAS plenty of don't drill out there and many who oppose all drilling .
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03-16-2019, 07:17 AM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: South East
Posts: 996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR.M
wood is good and has it place but i like the idea of Gas also . there is also an attack on GAS plenty of don't drill out there and many who oppose all drilling .
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Very true. But until they figure out how to perfect the electric truck that can tow 15+ thousands pounds of 5th wheel. No drill, No tow. Or there's always hydrogen based fuel from sea water
__________________
Retired Fire Dept Battalion Chief
2016 Ever-Lite 232RBS
2012 F150 FX4 W/Max tow & Ecoboost (Best tv ever)
2018 F250 Lariat (ok but I miss my F150)
Getting old ain't for wimps!!!
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03-16-2019, 08:06 AM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 4,043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9
FlyBob you are definitely correct that we have and are contributing to a number of different problems such as contributing by moving contaminated wood (wood pallets had the Ash Borer) or with the change in climate (not cold enough to kill the Pine Bark Beetle) or artificial waterways (Carp in Lake Michigan) And dumping bilge water which brought Zebra Mussels to Lake Erie. Or children suffering from Measles or Tetanus.
Too many think that a few cord of wood or a couple of carp or few hundred gals of contaminated water to a few dozen ppm of CO2 can't make a difference but each bit of contamination does contribute.
Some can choose to try and ignore facts and Science but the facts and reality will eventually win.
The Earth will continue but we may no longer be able to feed a population of 7.5 Billion. We already have Millions starving every year now with 800 Million not getting enough to eat to have a healthy life. I do wonder what is considered the acceptable number of starvation deaths a year.
Some seem to think they are special and should be allowed to do whatever they want, even when others may suffer as a result.
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That's not because we can't grow enough food it's because it's not profitable . capitalism has it down side to . Climate change is a normal thing and the pendulum swings
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03-16-2019, 08:42 AM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Summit Township
Posts: 872
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The next devastating invasive species is on the move, Spotted Lanternfly. This one moves on just about anything. It has been found they seem to have a thing for traveling on rusted metal. They feed on soft tissue. A grape farm in eastern PA lost 90% of their crop last year to Spotted Lanternfly.
https://www.agriculture.pa.gov/Plant...s/default.aspx
__________________
2019 Hemisphere 272RL
2015 Ford F250 6.2L
2005 Jayco Bantam Flier
Hensley Hitch
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03-16-2019, 09:07 AM
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#35
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 15,266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabinfever97
The next devastating invasive species is on the move, Spotted Lanternfly. This one moves on just about anything. It has been found they seem to have a thing for traveling on rusted metal. They feed on soft tissue. A grape farm in eastern PA lost 90% of their crop last year to Spotted Lanternfly.
https://www.agriculture.pa.gov/Plant...s/default.aspx
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Photo for reference.
__________________
2015 Freedom Express 248RBS
TV 2015 Silverado HD2500 Duramax
TST Tire Monitors
Honda 2000I + Companion
2 100W solar panels
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03-16-2019, 09:13 AM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Summit Township
Posts: 872
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__________________
2019 Hemisphere 272RL
2015 Ford F250 6.2L
2005 Jayco Bantam Flier
Hensley Hitch
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03-16-2019, 09:51 AM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 4,043
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hard to stop whats all ready here . but the best thing is to stop all imports and exports . Illegal aliens hitch hikers cause lots of issues . the zebra mussel has spread to many western waters and is killing entire ecosystems came from boat ballast Tanks . The asian carp . taking over the Mississippi, Missouri, Illinois rivers are just a few of the spread . released by asians wanting to have the same food here as at home . Killer bees created by dumb scientists in effort to have bees that make more honey got the opposite result . pythons in the everglades , along with many other reptiles , the nutria a large rat , starlings because the English wanted to feel at home here .
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03-16-2019, 10:20 AM
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#38
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Denver To Yuma In 90 Days
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Yuma, Arizona
Posts: 3,882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabinfever97
The next devastating invasive species is on the move...
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Yes...they are on the move, alright...they are called...
RV'ers...
Invading the woods everywhere!
And they look like this (for reference) and the woods look like this when they are finished with their invasion:
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03-16-2019, 10:35 AM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 724
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I take 2x4’s to burn. Construction sites will give you all the scraps you want. Just cut them to whatever you want. I have had some campgrounds tell me I can’t bring it in until I ask them what their offices are built from and that kiln dried lumber is moved all over the country.
__________________
2019.5 Rockwood 2509S
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03-16-2019, 10:53 AM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,515
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I have an old deck that currently supplies my fire needs. No limitations on my firewood most places I go. If there is we follow the rules. The rule that kills me is the no collecting of firewood in Texas State Parks. I am sure they have reason for the rule, but all I see is the dead wood adding fuel to a forest fire and not my fire. Allowing to gather the downed trees or wood also improves the looks of the park.
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2022 Chevy 3500 Diesel SWD
2022 Columbus 329 DVC
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