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Old 11-07-2018, 02:08 PM   #1
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Coordinating aux fireplace and main heat sources

So i'm installing an electric fireplace in our 265dbh8 Arctic Wolf 5vr tonight. Originally it was just for the ambiance, but figured it would be nice for early and late season days/nights to take the chill out instead of running the propane...especially since i our rig has those goofy little tanks vs. standard grill size or larger ( I can never remember the poundage).

Anyway, i need to use the camper later in the season than normal for deer hunting. Curious how folks coordinate the use of their fireplace heat and primary heat? Keep in mind, we have the arctic package, so our main propane heating system keeps the underbelly warm. I would like to use the fireplace as much as possible to minimize propane use, but i'm not sure that the heater has a "fan" mode to help circulate the air inside the camper as well as the underbelly. Also, the camper thermostat is within 6-7' of the fireplace. It's not the greatest thermostat to start with, but not sure if/how the heat will throw that off.
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Old 11-07-2018, 09:17 PM   #2
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If you are running off s generator I would not recommend using the fireplace at all.

If it is going to be below freezing st any point I would not rec using the fire place.

Most Rv furnaces do not have a recirculate through the heat ducts function. You need the furnace to run As much as possible. To keep the belly warm.

Currently when I’m at deer camp rely on generator and batteries. My furnace gets run as much as possible to stop freezing st night. The issue is my Catalina is well insulated. So I crack a window or two to make the furnace run more.

I have 2 30 lbs tanks and bring another 30 just to be safe. Last deer camp was 25 degrees at night. I went through 20 lbs of propane in 4 nights. But I did have the pump inlet freeze on me the last night.

The fire place in. My unit will heat the whole trailer if it’s above freezing.


I’m in the process of applying heat pads and tape to everything so it will no linger be an issue
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Old 11-08-2018, 09:04 AM   #3
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We live in South Louisiana and last winter my son was staying in our TT. He drives truck, so he was gone a few days when we had freezing weather and I thought I was being smart by using the fire place to keep things warm, NOT. It did keep the TT warm, but didn't keep water lines from freezing. By luck, none of them busted. Did have to run the furnace to thaw them out. Got to keep belly warm.
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Old 11-08-2018, 09:24 AM   #4
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It's kinda important to know the location when asking weather related questions. More so about heating than cooling. And seeing that you're in WI you're going to need to run the furnace a lot to keep the underside warm enough to keep things from freezing.

If you have shore power available it shouldn't be a problem to run the furnace a good bit. As for the LP you can always get a larger cylinder and an Extend-A-Stay to hook it to your existing system and that should take care of the heating needs.
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Old 11-08-2018, 09:26 AM   #5
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If you're electrically handy, you can cut the red lead to the furnace's fan motor and install a switch and a relay that will allow you to turn on the furnace's blower without running the furnace (gas). This will draw in warm air from the RV and blow it into the underbelly.

Here's an electrical diagram of a Suburban furnace:

Click image for larger version

Name:	Furance wiring diagram.png
Views:	279
Size:	59.3 KB
ID:	190960

Here's the red wire to the blower motor cut and a relay installed:

Click image for larger version

Name:	Fan blower relay on Suburban wiring diagram.png
Views:	334
Size:	60.3 KB
ID:	190961
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Old 11-08-2018, 10:15 AM   #6
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Well since i'm already having issues with my water system (http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ml#post1967879) i think i'll forgo using any of the plumbing while hunting next week. That way i can just see how the fireplace works and not worry about keeping lines warm.

I like the idea for a seperate switch for the fan though!
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Old 11-08-2018, 10:32 AM   #7
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Don't put too much stock in that "Arctic package" Many times it isn't much more than a decal. If it gets very cold you will probably end up running both the furnace and electric heater and maybe even wish you had more. Most electric fireplaces have a max out put of 5,280 BTUs. Considerably less than the output of your furnace.
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Old 11-08-2018, 01:25 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by willie1280 View Post
Well since i'm already having issues with my water system (http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ml#post1967879) i think i'll forgo using any of the plumbing while hunting next week. That way i can just see how the fireplace works and not worry about keeping lines warm.

I like the idea for a seperate switch for the fan though!
Make sure you at least drain the piping and blow it out. Add anti-freeze to the drain traps. Many of us pump the anti-freeze into the piping, but many of us don't (I don't).
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Old 11-08-2018, 01:54 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by rockfordroo View Post
If you're electrically handy, you can cut the red lead to the furnace's fan motor and install a switch and a relay that will allow you to turn on the furnace's blower without running the furnace (gas). This will draw in warm air from the RV and blow it into the underbelly.

Here's an electrical diagram of a Suburban furnace:

Attachment 190960

Here's the red wire to the blower motor cut and a relay installed:

Attachment 190961

I have looked into this before. Be aware that the furnace will not ignite if the fan is already running due to sail switches.
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Old 11-08-2018, 02:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockfordroo View Post
If you're electrically handy, you can cut the red lead to the furnace's fan motor and install a switch and a relay that will allow you to turn on the furnace's blower without running the furnace (gas). This will draw in warm air from the RV and blow it into the underbelly.

Here's an electrical diagram of a Suburban furnace:

Attachment 190960

Here's the red wire to the blower motor cut and a relay installed:

Attachment 190961

I have looked into this before. Be aware that the furnace will not ignite if the fan is already running due to sail switches.
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Old 11-08-2018, 02:47 PM   #11
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if you want to "stage" the fireplace and the furnace, and use the fireplace as primary then set the furnace a few degrees below the fireplace, kind of act like a second stage. When the fireplace can't keep up (temp. continues to fall) then the furnace will kick in.


I noticed our fireplace cycles a lot, probably because the sensor is built into it, I'm going to investigate that when I get it back from warranty work. Might try to relocate the sensor if I can find it, will post my findings.


What really chaps my hide is the default sequence of operation of the furnace/A.C. If we have 110 volt power and select "heat" at the thermostat the A/C fan comes on and runs constantly, I guess to help "circulate" the heat but I just want the furnace fan to run so I open the breaker to the A/C but this function should be user select-able.
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Old 11-08-2018, 03:03 PM   #12
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What really chaps my hide is the default sequence of operation of the furnace/A.C. If we have 110 volt power and select "heat" at the thermostat the A/C fan comes on and runs constantly, I guess to help "circulate" the heat but I just want the furnace fan to run so I open the breaker to the A/C but this function should be user select-able.
It is user selectable. If you put the fan in AU instead of Hi or Lo, when you run the furnace the A/C fan won't run.
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Old 11-08-2018, 03:22 PM   #13
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What really chaps my hide is the default sequence of operation of the furnace/A.C. If we have 110 volt power and select "heat" at the thermostat the A/C fan comes on and runs constantly, I guess to help "circulate" the heat but I just want the furnace fan to run so I open the breaker to the A/C but this function should be user select-able.
That’s controllable:
Help! A/C Comes On When Heat Comes On | Learn To RV
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Old 11-08-2018, 03:48 PM   #14
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We just leave the fireplace set to about 68 and then set the furnace to come on at about 65. That way, the fireplace does the best it can, but if it gets too cold, the furnace kicks in.

Depending on the temperature outside, we can only count on about 15 degrees higher from the fireplace. After that, the furnace takes over. The fireplace will keep the temperature from falling as quickly as without it, so the furnace doesn't work quite as much.
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Old 11-08-2018, 06:59 PM   #15
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I turn on the furnace and the electric fireplace, DW says I’m old and cold, I grew up in a house without central heat. Now I like to stay warm, I have two thirty pound LP tanks and two twenty pound tanks, for cooking on my grills and emergency gas
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Old 11-08-2018, 07:18 PM   #16
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I have looked into this before. Be aware that the furnace will not ignite if the fan is already running due to sail switches.
I believe you are incorrect. The sail switch is normally open (when the fan is NOT running), which keeps +12VDC from reaching the module board via the "R" wire. When the thermostat calls for heat, +12VDC is applied from the right hand "BL Thermostat" wire to the left connection on the normally closed limit switch (the "BL" wire), then through the "BR" wire to the coil of the time delay relay, then through the "G" wire to ground. This power closes the time delay relay, which applies +12VDC power from the "R +12VDC" connection via the "R" wire, through the time delay contacts to the fan motor, starting the fan.

Once the fan is running, the sail switch closes and then allows "BL Thermostat" +12VDC power through the normally closed limit switch to the "BR" wire, then through the NOW closed sail switch to the "R" wire to the module board, which then opens the gas valve and lights off the ignitor. (The sail switch is what closes when the fan is running and thus tells the module board that it's safe to light off the gas.)

With the mod I show installed and the new switch closed to run the fan all the time, the sail switch will always be closed (because the fan is always running). If the thermostat calls for heat, it will still apply +12VDC to the NC limit switch and then to the sail switch and module board. It will also be applied to the time delay relay, but it isn't really in the circuit with the new switch closed and new relay energized. So the furnace will still light off when needed. When the T-stat is satisfied, it stops supplying +12VDC to the limit switch and sail switch, and therefore to the module board, so the board closes the gas valve as usual, shutting off the heat input to the furnace, but the fan will continue to run all the time. Kind of like putting your AC fan into manual. The fan runs all the time, but the AC compressor runs as needed.
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Old 11-08-2018, 08:53 PM   #17
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I believe you are incorrect. The sail switch is normally open (when the fan is NOT running), which keeps +12VDC from reaching the module board via the "R" wire. When the thermostat calls for heat, +12VDC is applied from the right hand "BL Thermostat" wire to the left connection on the normally closed limit switch (the "BL" wire), then through the "BR" wire to the coil of the time delay relay, then through the "G" wire to ground. This power closes the time delay relay, which applies +12VDC power from the "R +12VDC" connection via the "R" wire, through the time delay contacts to the fan motor, starting the fan.

Once the fan is running, the sail switch closes and then allows "BL Thermostat" +12VDC power through the normally closed limit switch to the "BR" wire, then through the NOW closed sail switch to the "R" wire to the module board, which then opens the gas valve and lights off the ignitor. (The sail switch is what closes when the fan is running and thus tells the module board that it's safe to light off the gas.)

With the mod I show installed and the new switch closed to run the fan all the time, the sail switch will always be closed (because the fan is always running). If the thermostat calls for heat, it will still apply +12VDC to the NC limit switch and then to the sail switch and module board. It will also be applied to the time delay relay, but it isn't really in the circuit with the new switch closed and new relay energized. So the furnace will still light off when needed. When the T-stat is satisfied, it stops supplying +12VDC to the limit switch and sail switch, and therefore to the module board, so the board closes the gas valve as usual, shutting off the heat input to the furnace, but the fan will continue to run all the time. Kind of like putting your AC fan into manual. The fan runs all the time, but the AC compressor runs as needed.

I’ll see if I can find the thread but the issue is that most Rv furnaces have a single motor for both the blower and combustion blower. So the furnace has issues igniting when the combustion blower is running
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Old 11-09-2018, 09:26 AM   #18
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I’ll see if I can find the thread but the issue is that most Rv furnaces have a single motor for both the blower and combustion blower. So the furnace has issues igniting when the combustion blower is running
The furnace won't start to light unless the fan is running (sail switch closed).

If the the gas lit first, the module board would need to sense that and then send power to the fan; there is clearly no circuit from the module board to the fan to do this.

So I would be very interested in whatever you've found. Makes no sense.
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