Do the Manufacturers really have a quality Problem?

[lgray]

Originally Posted by KMP44

Do you have any source data to back that up?

Between Thor (Dutchmen, Heartland, Keystone...) and FR, plus Jayco that has to be the majority of the light weight towables and my perception would be they are all about equal in price and quality from their entry level lines to their higher end brands. And all could improve, but I've never seen any data to say one way or the other.

And to the original topic - maybe they can add "black boxes" to trailers so the future owners can see what kind of abuse the delivery driver put their brand new RV through. Delivering trailers has to be a tough way to earn a living, but they still need to take it easy.

Impossible to completely and objectively quantify the numbers when the industry lacks regulation and more importantly transparency.
However, spend some time on some of the other manufacturers sites, I have.
I have owned a Flagstaff (TT), Columbus (fifth wheel) and still own a 2013 Trilogy (fifth wheel). In November bought a 2014 Winnebago Aspect. Huge difference in quality and especially service.
Look closely at a similar entry or mid-level from Jayco, Thor, Winnebago, etc. and you will see the differences in quality.

[X96mnn]

I guess my point, regardless what the is checked and balanced at the factory is not going to be the same product that arrives at the dealer. From what I witnessed the longevity of the beloved quality automobiles we drive would be called into question if the delivery method was the same. Just imagine if every new car lot was filled with rent a car quality vehicals!

As I understand it, from what two of the three dealers I bought from explained to me, when the rig arrives the dealer is paid a flat fee to wash, inspect and fix any damage during transportation. Many of the items we call out are trim, missing part, doors falling off, cracks and tears. All of these things are going to happen with abuse which can very well take place over 4000 miles at 90mph. Parts missing again back to the dealer who often robs parts from Peter to fix Paul.

What do the manufactures do? is the logic they should be following, spend an extra 1000 on delivery, eat the cost and it will be made up on the back end with less warranty work and better review? Personally I do not think that will work as they are already paying a lot to people who are ripping them off, now they will just pay more with the same problem.

Keystone called me after the sale and asked me about my PDI. The dealer made me very aware that this call was coming and to please address any issues that came up with them and not on the call. Thought this was awesome, I did not get a call from Forrest River but can state the thor board is just as full of complaints as this board so that is not a fix either.

I still think there is a larger issue driving the overall poor quality some experiance in the transportation and dealer areas then the actual build. Not saying there could not be better build practices and quality of some equipment improved.

[SkipnTerri]

Originally Posted by lgray

Impossible to completely and objectively quantify the numbers when the industry lacks regulation and more importantly transparency.
However, spend some time on some of the other manufacturers sites, I have.
I have owned a Flagstaff (TT), Columbus (fifth wheel) and still own a 2013 Trilogy (fifth wheel). In November bought a 2014 Winnebago Aspect. Huge difference in quality and especially service.
Look closely at a similar entry or mid-level from Jayco, Thor, Winnebago, etc. and you will see the differences in quality.

Lucky YOU

[MillerTime]

I think everyone is just jaded or crazy if they think that this is only on the rv side of stuff.
I've worked for auto dealerships for years and there are issues (albeit sometimes rather small) with almost every one of them (cars) on the lot regardless of the make . We are getting alot of the new f150s running thru our dealer body shops and the fit and finish is awful, almost makes rvs look good!

And its been this way for years....give me a make and i can tell you the most prevelant problems with them. Some its paint not matching, others its the paint oxidizing after a couple years (oh wait, thats the same manufacturer) rust extremely quick compared to other, electrical accessories early failure, bad panel fitment consistently, etc... AND the foreign manufacturers are some of the worst (even though people think they set the bar and wonder what they would do to the rv market if they produced them).

They key answer or solution......the dealers! We prioritize our customers, and some rv dealers do too! And sometimes the customers have to help to point stuff out to us too. With several thousand cars on our lots and only a few hundred employees, we can't catch it all either. But we will do our darndest to make it right, even if we have to buy it back sometimes.
Research your dealers, ask around, go to campgrounds and look for campers of the make you like and stop and ask about their dealer....us campers usually dont mind chatting!!
Rvs or cars....dealers can really make all the difference!!!!


Edit ps.- and Yes we see transport damaged vehicles as well as service damaged vehicles, it's not a perfect world, unfortunately.

[tone100]

I talked to a driver last week that was pulling a new open range 5th wheel. He told me he drives 80-85mph. Said its not his trailer so he doesn't care. No wonder they don't hold up and seem to have problems when new.

[sfsgm]

If you've ever been back behind the drawers of the kitchen cabinets and found the absolutely shoddy way holes are drilled and wire is run you probably cringed thinking how much you paid for your RV.

Or perhaps climbed on the roof and checked out the roof seal laps and the caulking around the air conditioner and vents.

Or maybe just looked to see whether the screws are set flush or not at an angle where metal is attached to met.

These things are mostly thrown together at the factory with little to no regard for quality.

Originally Posted by X96mnn

I guess my point, regardless what the is checked and balanced at the factory is not going to be the same product that arrives at the dealer. From what I witnessed the longevity of the beloved quality automobiles we drive would be called into question if the delivery method was the same. Just imagine if every new car lot was filled with rent a car quality vehicals!

As I understand it, from what two of the three dealers I bought from explained to me, when the rig arrives the dealer is paid a flat fee to wash, inspect and fix any damage during transportation. Many of the items we call out are trim, missing part, doors falling off, cracks and tears. All of these things are going to happen with abuse which can very well take place over 4000 miles at 90mph. Parts missing again back to the dealer who often robs parts from Peter to fix Paul.

What do the manufactures do? is the logic they should be following, spend an extra 1000 on delivery, eat the cost and it will be made up on the back end with less warranty work and better review? Personally I do not think that will work as they are already paying a lot to people who are ripping them off, now they will just pay more with the same problem.

Keystone called me after the sale and asked me about my PDI. The dealer made me very aware that this call was coming and to please address any issues that came up with them and not on the call. Thought this was awesome, I did not get a call from Forrest River but can state the thor board is just as full of complaints as this board so that is not a fix either.

I still think there is a larger issue driving the overall poor quality some experiance in the transportation and dealer areas then the actual build. Not saying there could not be better build practices and quality of some equipment improved.

[5 hole]

Originally Posted by lgray

Impossible to completely and objectively quantify the numbers when the industry lacks regulation and more importantly transparency.
However, spend some time on some of the other manufacturers sites, I have.
I have owned a Flagstaff (TT), Columbus (fifth wheel) and still own a 2013 Trilogy (fifth wheel). In November bought a 2014 Winnebago Aspect. Huge difference in quality and especially service.
Look closely at a similar entry or mid-level from Jayco, Thor, Winnebago, etc. and you will see the differences in quality.

I agree 100%!! Comparing quality of a Jayco, to a Thor Product is laughable. Sorry but Thor quality is poor. Not sure how much of this is factory to factory based for their lines... But Dutchman... yikes!

[ridersfan]

Originally Posted by sfsgm

Thanks for the information. Actually, I've tried that but I wondered if somewhere there is something like Consumer Reports. I know there is a company up here in Washington that produces a magazine but I also heard that they have manufacturers that contribute or advertise so I have to wonder about the objectivity.

I'm in the car business, and frankly... my opinion of consumer reports is that they are still heavily biased. They have auto manufacturers advertising in them also... and they are definitely biased towards Japanese manufacturers over domestics.

[elkabong]

I am one of those drivers. My circumstances are a little different, as I contract only to a single dealer in my home town. I'm retired from a totally different occupation and do this to supplement my income and pay for my vacations every year. I take these vacations in my own fifth wheel that I bought through this dealer.
Unless passing, I drive consistently at 60-65. Even so, I had one tire de-laminate on a trip less than 200 miles from the factory and heavily damage the side of a 5th wheel. In four years it is the only unit I have ever damaged. And, in spite of what has been posted, I seldom see units being towed by transport company drivers passing me on the highways. I am far more often being passed by the owners of these trailers.
Quality control? I had the advantage of a dealer who told me which brand they carried with the fewest complaints and best customer service. I was also able to tour the factories. That's where the main problem lies! What I saw were workers moving at a break-neck pace, often running. Turns out, once the days quota of units off-the-line is met, the day is over and everybody goes home with a full day's pay. This does not lend itself to good workmanship. Quality control is not popular as it slows down the process.
I can not offer an answer, only my own observations.