Do the Manufacturers really have a quality Problem?

X96mnn · 03-11-2015, 07:08 PM

Very interesting observation I had the pleasure of making during a 10hr round trip of driving I completed over the last few days.

On my way I met quite a few RVs being hauled by trucks in mid winter and tons of salt. These trailers are on their way to the dealers and in some cases being transferred between dealers. All well and good, most Canadian drivers are aware of this and it is part of the the general knowledge your rig most likely shipped in the winter months to be there first season. Some prefer to order mid season so they do not deal with this, good dealers wash them well.

The second part is what got me, I was driving 75MPH which was speeding by roughly 10MPH, (Not Hauling). These trucks were catching me and going by me, not as if I was standing still but by me quickly, My guess is 90MPH, on roads after a Canadian winter which are very very bad from the salt waking the asphalt and the low places tearing it up. I watched these campers in the brief time they were in my line of site hitting many pot hols and bumps that made them come clear off the ground. The jolts and shapes these things were going through were unreal. There is no way those campers are making it to the destination without issues of trim and things being clear torn apart.

I often see post where the integrity of the manufacturer is put into question and it is asked how can they let it leave this way. My question is, would what I saw today be common practise? Is this back to the dealer PDI lacking as the main problem and not a Quality issue at the manufacturer?

This would not cover some of the things we get, bad back flow valves, fading paint, staples through a pipe and such. But much of the broken items my bet could be in how they are hauled before their forever home.

trbomax · 03-11-2015, 07:59 PM

Those haulers are paid by the mile,less time = more time to pick up and delive a back haul,and it pays the same.When I was in the marina business our new boats would be delivered in the same manner (contract haulers).When they picked up the boat or boats from the factory they would have to fill out 3 different sheets that would note size,location,and severity of any defects,The mfg would keep one copy.After they got here they would turn in one copy to us,then we would go out and re- survey the boat/trailer to check the acuracy of thier first evaluation,and note any new damage, The driver would have to sign off on it and as part of his contract agreement,was financeuly responceable for any damage that occured on his haul.The factory would only authorize warranty repair on the items marked on the first sheet,anything else was on the drivers insurance.They were way more acountable for the haul knowing that they were responcable for damage.broken or missing items.

lgray · 03-11-2015, 08:25 PM

The manufacturer needs to own the whole process for quality and service. At the end of the day, any issues with the RV will be tied back to the manufacturer, directly or vicariously by way of lousy dealers or middlemen. Pull contracts from bad dealers and hire your own drivers, if that is what it takes.

You don’t see nearly the number or severity of these types of issues from other manufacturers.
Quality of craftsmanship and materials is a whole different story.
Not all RV manufacturers are created equal and in most cases, you really do get what you pay for.

caper · 03-11-2015, 08:33 PM

After reading the first post and the speeds that the trailers were being hauled and the abuse from pot holes it is any wonder why the "china bombs" do not hold up. If the trailers were supplied with higher brand tires they would still be bombs just waiting to blow. So many of the tire problems might not be the brand but the delivery driver who does not care about the trailer but just getting it to the dealer.

trbomax · 03-11-2015, 08:40 PM

There is probably some truth in the above post. When our 315 came in the rr tire was half flat,and the lf was down enough that it was noticeable.It only was hauled 60 miles or so,but thats enough to damage any tire.Really didnt matter because we replaced them with marathons before it left the lot.

SkipnTerri · 03-11-2015, 08:48 PM

Uff-dah!!

DDC · 03-11-2015, 09:27 PM

The answer to the OP is yes they do, they lack a system of true and consistent quality control, the process that is used to deliver units is also part of their problem, I got a good unit on my last purchase but this is not the first one.

KMP44 · 03-11-2015, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lgray

You don’t see nearly the number or severity of these types of issues from other manufacturers.

Do you have any source data to back that up?

Between Thor (Dutchmen, Heartland, Keystone...) and FR, plus Jayco that has to be the majority of the light weight towables and my perception would be they are all about equal in price and quality from their entry level lines to their higher end brands. And all could improve, but I've never seen any data to say one way or the other.

And to the original topic - maybe they can add "black boxes" to trailers so the future owners can see what kind of abuse the delivery driver put their brand new RV through. Delivering trailers has to be a tough way to earn a living, but they still need to take it easy.

sfsgm · 03-12-2015, 11:56 AM

Something that has probably popped up in everyone's mind at least once is where to find reliable and objective data on manufacturers and their products. Unlike cars or trucks, finding information on the quality of fifth wheel and travel trailers is next to impossible. Anybody have any suggestions other than "you get what you pay for", which isn't always the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMP44

Do you have any source data to back that up?

Between Thor (Dutchmen, Heartland, Keystone...) and FR, plus Jayco that has to be the majority of the light weight towables and my perception would be they are all about equal in price and quality from their entry level lines to their higher end brands. And all could improve, but I've never seen any data to say one way or the other.

And to the original topic - maybe they can add "black boxes" to trailers so the future owners can see what kind of abuse the delivery driver put their brand new RV through. Delivering trailers has to be a tough way to earn a living, but they still need to take it easy.

Happy Vibe · 03-12-2015, 12:12 PM

If you go on the forums for the other manufactures I would say they all have there problems.

sfsgm · 03-12-2015, 12:20 PM

Thanks for the information. Actually, I've tried that but I wondered if somewhere there is something like Consumer Reports. I know there is a company up here in Washington that produces a magazine but I also heard that they have manufacturers that contribute or advertise so I have to wonder about the objectivity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Vibe

If you go on the forums for the other manufactures I would say they all have there problems.

firstclark · 03-12-2015, 12:22 PM

My thoughts. Quality control would definitely be on the low side. I have relatives that work in some rv plants. They claim that most of the time under staffed and sometimes even under supplied especially when RV sales rise 8-12% annually. When demand is high employees need to work much faster and after all we are all humans. Details take the most time! I own a 5th wheel myself. I find it very hard to believe that all the RV companies do not have any in house transportation of RV's to there dealerships . Instead they auction transportation to the lowest bidder with a drivers license and towing background.

vinmaker · 03-12-2015, 12:45 PM

Wow. Reading this post is really scary. I own a pop up and many times I see them delivered on flat bed trucks. I own a pretty large pop up and am curious if it too was towed from Indiana for delivery.

Scary stuff.

Vin.

Evereddie · 03-12-2015, 01:23 PM

For some strange reason RV manufacturers think that as soon as the unit leaves their parking lot at the factory they assume NO responsibility for it. They don't establish guidelines for how it gets to the dealers, no guidelines for how a dealer treats the buyers of the manufacturers products, no service rules by the dealers, no responsibility for when they stamp out a lemon and the customer should get a new one, Don't know how they stay in business.

I personally had major issues with my dealer who lied and cheated when a repair was needed after a tree limb went through our roof. They lied and cheated us and the insurance company.

karrun · 03-12-2015, 01:33 PM

We're buying our first TT in the next month or so,. We are paying roughly equal to what our last automobile cost us. I have had zero complaints with my Hyundai after nearly 2 years. Spending a lot of time reading these forums in preparation for our new rig, I'd say there is zero chance we are not going to have at least one issue either when we pick the TT up, or shortly thereafter. This makes me feel that the quality control process for RVs is much less robust than for autos these days.

**Terier** · 03-12-2015, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karrun

We're buying our first TT in the next month or so,. We are paying roughly equal to what our last automobile cost us. I have had zero complaints with my Hyundai after nearly 2 years. Spending a lot of time reading these forums in preparation for our new rig, I'd say there is zero chance we are not going to have at least one issue either when we pick the TT up, or shortly thereafter. This makes me feel that the quality control process for RVs is much less robust than for autos these days.

I would say that you have more than a zero percent of not having any issues. Your dealership service department can play a role in the outcome too. I'm surprised on how many inspections are not done prior to the customer arriving to take delivery. My dealership had checked and verified that everything in my TT was in working order before I arrived.

X96mnn · 03-12-2015, 04:10 PM

It would be very safe to say, if your Hyundai or any other car was being transfered in the fashion I witnessed, there would be problems.

Personally I think there is an industry problem which causes most of the complaints that are out there. Dealers are not doing what they are supposed to be doing a large majority of the time and no one at the manufacturing level is holding them responsible for it.

Until Thor and Forrest River make the dealers change, and they would need to do it together we will always have issues. They control 70% of the market, the rest just play the game that is being played. Today if a dealer stinks and thor was to have issue with them they will replace their three lines with forrest River tomorrow.

trbomax · 03-12-2015, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terier

I'm surprised on how many inspections are not done prior to the customer arriving to take delivery. My dealership had checked and verified that everything in my TT was in working order before I arrived.

Ours wasn't.It didnt even have any propane or even tanks or a battery in it untill we got there,I watched them install them.It was to my knowledge,ever plugged in.They had to put the TV in while we waited.The floors were all tracked up,and there was a lot of mouse turds in the fwd storage bay.I snidly ask if we paid extra for the mouse turds,the guy thought it was funny and said that they all come with those,no upcharge.There are/were no shelves in the freezer compartment either because "nobody uses them anyway,they just stack stuff in there".On the way home with it(250 miles) the garage side door kept comming open.I looked at it in a rest stop and there are 3 washers under each screw holding the striker plate on and it still was only grabbing by about 1/8". Good thing I had duct tape.When we got home,I checked the winterizeing job.Everything pushe red pop except the outside shower which pushed out about a cup of clear water.

L2R · 03-12-2015, 05:45 PM

There are too many obvious things that people on RV forums repeat over and over. It is obvious that they are years behind on the quality front.

A companies first attempt would be to look at the finished product and list all the items and the frequency of these defects. This is too late, it is a start but it re-active.

The way to make a better product is to build quality into the process, in other words not make a bad product at all.

All this to say that since they don't pay attention to obvious flaws found in a walk thru, they have no interest in improving and so far, no one has made them to it better.

It is a painful, expensive process and difficult to grasp but quality is free when you do it right the first time.

**Platokidd** · 03-12-2015, 06:23 PM

Do the Manufacturers really have a quality Problem?
Yes

If you go into knowing there's gonna be some problems and issues you wont be to disappointed. Hopefully nothing major will be wrong. If ya dont have any problems, your one of the lucky ones.
Think the first year of owning a new rv is worst for issues. And more then likely it will take a year to work them all out.
Im speaking from my own personal experiences , friends and family.
I purchased a new 2013, then traded for a new 2014 so I know.

I find the experience of buying a new truck comes with a huge thrill, the feel good ,they have always been good for me!
Buying a new rv , well .. if you willing to roll the dice.. deal with disappointment in workmanship , things that dont work right, long waits to resolve issues fully and not quite to your full satisfaction the first time or maybe even the second time, then go for it! Gotta keep your cool and work thru it!

Now the 2nd year can be much more enjoyable, didn't say problem free..
Here's to knocking on wood for a good 3rd season for me!!

GOOD LUCK to all the new rv buyers this season!!

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