Electric or Propane Heat for the winter

[Dobbs]

Originally Posted by dentyjeff

We decided to not winterize our new Sun Seeker motor-home as we plan to take a few trips in the next couple of months. I know I need to heat my home on wheels to prevent freezing. It looks like everything is well insulated underneath. I usually leave it plugged into electric on my driveway, this insures everything is peaked up if I should need the generator.
Any suggestions on this subject?
Should I use the propane furnace or an electric space heater?
If electric, what type works best?
When should I turn on the Polar tank heaters?

Any comments would be welcome.

Jeff

I personally would think that the cost in pink and time would be much lower than either electric or propane. Plus if on one of your few trips you don't use the plumbing you obviously wouldn't have to re-winterize.
Remember that if using the propane option you still need to be connected to electric or your batteries will go dead quite quickly.
I also believe that the Polar tank heaters turn on automatically when the temperature gets cold enough if the switch is on. Could be wrong on that one. I don't have that option.

[jimmoore13]

Columbus, OH?
To answer your question, use the propane furnace. It's probably ducted to add heat below the floor and distribute heat evenly. A space heater can't do that.

The real answer? Neither except for very short periods.
If you don't want to be outside at 9 PM scrambling to really winterize when a cold front moves through, I'll join the chorus suggesting winterization using an air compressor, tank dumps (including hot water), and RV antifreeze in the traps and black/grey tanks.

Get a decent air compressor. For less than $400 you can get a high-pressure, high-volume compressor meant for homeowner use. My Husky is just an example, but it's up to the task. Get plenty of air hose so you can leave the thing in your garage and just drag hose to the RV.

Set the output to about 40 PSI...to match the pressure of water through a pressure reducer for city water. This way, you can safely close all the water valves on the RV while the air is applied, and the pressure won't blow up your rig's plumbing.

Don't bother to bypass the hot water heater. Just pull the plug and hit it with air after it has drained. That will blow out lots of extra water. Then plug it up and let the air do its work...a 30 gallon compressor can "pressurize" a 6 to 10 gallon hot water tank to 40 PSI with ease.

Don't forget the low-point drains and the water filter housing. One other essential trick is to run the water pump dry with a sink valve open for about 60 seconds -"sucking air". This will dry out the pump body well enough to prevent freeze damage. And no, it won't damage the pump.

Go from valve to valve opening and blowing out one at a time about 3 times per valve...including the toilet flush. Don't forget the outdoor shower.

When you're done, close up ALL the valves and leave everything ready to roll out on your next trip. No sanitizing...no RV antifreeze in the potable water system.

The first time you do this, it will take a bit of time, but guess what. Winterize with air and you're done. You're winterized. That's it, that's all. No heat required...and that will save you a ton on heating...especially with electricity.

Quick math: a 1500 watt space heater - all you can run on a 20 amp home circuit, especially if you're running the tank heaters - is 1.5 kilowatts per hour. For ease of calculation, let's say it's running 24/7. That's $162/month at 15 cents per kilowatt hour. You won't use all of that, but let's assume $100/month for about 5 months.

The flip side is that all you need to do is fill your fresh tank or connect to "city water", open the valves on your sinks, showers, and toilet...briefly to fill the hot water tank and purge the air...and roll.

The ONLY place I put RV antifreeze in my rig is in the drains. Here in the mountains of CO, I winterize with air...always. If a warm weekend comes up, as it often does, we can be ready to roll in the time it takes to fill the fresh tank and hot water heater...and pack.

Winterizing with air is quick and CLEAN. I sanitized my rig once, when I bought it. I don't need to sanitize again, because I never introduce any "contaminants" into our potable water system.

Why is winterizing with air the right answer? No amount of heat inside the RV is likely to protect your outside shower...and that's just one of several risks of freezing in many RVs.

[A32Deuce]

X2!

[Witch Doctor]

Some of what you say is very true on a tag a long or a 5th wheel
But on on a class C it's different at least on mine. There is no propane heat used to condition the area of the water pump or lines. Its all above the chassis. There are removable panels to access the lines and pump area. The 2 week areas are the outdoor shower and the water inlet, just cut insulation and put it behind the door. Open all your access panels and let the warm air circulate in the enclosed area. Now saying that I live in Virginia the weather is different then northern Ohio. Even when I owned every design trailer I have really never winterized , but twice in 15 years. I'm also plugged in 24/7 and don't care of my electrical use. I always keep my stat at the lowest setting and my electric heater above that. If the power go's off the propane will kick in. Knock on wood I never had a problem. Plus I leave my tank heaters on with 5 gals of liquid in each and let the stat take care of that. Jeez I hate winter.

Originally Posted by jimmoore13

Columbus, OH?
To answer your question, use the propane furnace. It's probably ducted to add heat below the floor and distribute heat evenly. A space heater can't do that.

The real answer? Neither except for very short periods.
If you don't want to be outside at 9 PM scrambling to really winterize when a cold front moves through, I'll join the chorus suggesting winterization using an air compressor, tank dumps (including hot water), and RV antifreeze in the traps and black/grey tanks.

Get a decent air compressor. For less than $400 you can get a high-pressure, high-volume compressor meant for homeowner use. My Husky is just an example, but it's up to the task. Get plenty of air hose so you can leave the thing in your garage and just drag hose to the RV.

Set the output to about 40 PSI...to match the pressure of water through a pressure reducer for city water. This way, you can safely close all the water valves on the RV while the air is applied, and the pressure won't blow up your rig's plumbing.

Don't bother to bypass the hot water heater. Just pull the plug and hit it with air after it has drained. That will blow out lots of extra water. Then plug it up and let the air do its work...a 30 gallon compressor can "pressurize" a 6 to 10 gallon hot water tank to 40 PSI with ease.

Don't forget the low-point drains and the water filter housing. One other essential trick is to run the water pump dry with a sink valve open for about 60 seconds -"sucking air". This will dry out the pump body well enough to prevent freeze damage. And no, it won't damage the pump.

Go from valve to valve opening and blowing out one at a time about 3 times per valve...including the toilet flush. Don't forget the outdoor shower.

When you're done, close up ALL the valves and leave everything ready to roll out on your next trip. No sanitizing...no RV antifreeze in the potable water system.

The first time you do this, it will take a bit of time, but guess what. Winterize with air and you're done. You're winterized. That's it, that's all. No heat required...and that will save you a ton on heating...especially with electricity.

Quick math: a 1500 watt space heater - all you can run on a 20 amp home circuit, especially if you're running the tank heaters - is 1.5 kilowatts per hour. For ease of calculation, let's say it's running 24/7. That's $162/month at 15 cents per kilowatt hour. You won't use all of that, but let's assume $100/month for about 5 months.

The flip side is that all you need to do is fill your fresh tank or connect to "city water", open the valves on your sinks, showers, and toilet...briefly to fill the hot water tank and purge the air...and roll.

The ONLY place I put RV antifreeze in my rig is in the drains. Here in the mountains of CO, I winterize with air...always. If a warm weekend comes up, as it often does, we can be ready to roll in the time it takes to fill the fresh tank and hot water heater...and pack.

Winterizing with air is quick and CLEAN. I sanitized my rig once, when I bought it. I don't need to sanitize again, because I never introduce any "contaminants" into our potable water system.

Why is winterizing with air the right answer? No amount of heat inside the RV is likely to protect your outside shower...and that's just one of several risks of freezing in many RVs.

[Witch Doctor]

Oh yes I should mention I used a space heater in the basement of my 5er had a remote thermostat in the basement and never seen it drop below 40 degrees. No Need for that in a Class C that the OP is talking about

[A32Deuce]

WD my C has wet bin heat and tank attic Pac. I had the false walls off to find the blown fuse for the water pump and found the silver heat hose in there. Yours might have the same. I would check.

[Witch Doctor]

I have checked and there is nothing, just 3-2" flex ducts, mine is a Coachmen not a Sunseeker, seems there is is a lot of difference. I have had everything apart and inspected it all. That's just what I have always done. I'm very impressed with Coachmen, all the way to the battery system , they installed true deep cycle batteries not what FR puts in. Just read a post on what they used, also love the anzel wall system not the cheap laminated sides used by FR. No lamination problems down the line. I'm not worried at all about not winterizing.

[Witch Doctor]

Also as I stated all plumbing is above the chassis including pee-traps , I keep my interior at 45 degrees with access open and cabinets. But thanks for the heads up.

[A32Deuce]

I found with ours, if between trips in the winter, with the solar on the roof. As long as the overnight temps don't go below 28 degrees all night, setting the on board heat at 40, a propane tank will last about 28 days. I don't blow out then since everything is protected by heat.

[Witch Doctor]

Well Deuce, I gave it some thought about what you said about the furnace blowing hot air on the water pump and plumbing. I said maybe I do have that, it would make sense to me, so I took off all the access panels and turned the furnace on, I couldn't feel any heat being blown in any area. I don't know why they didn't install that, every trailer I owned always had that. So I guess I'm back to just keeping the access panels open and let the heat get in that way. My last trailer I had a pee trap located in the basement for the shower, but now I have a raised floor and the per trap is above the chassis maybe that is why. But I really don't like the raised floor in the shower, but all my plumbing is located under it also. Very hard space wise to work on anything, but thanks again.

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by Witch Doctor

I have checked and there is nothing, just 3-2" flex ducts, mine is a Coachmen not a Sunseeker, seems there is is a lot of difference. I have had everything apart and inspected it all. That's just what I have always done. I'm very impressed with Coachmen, all the way to the battery system , they installed true deep cycle batteries not what FR puts in. Just read a post on what they used, also love the anzel wall system not the cheap laminated sides used by FR. No lamination problems down the line. I'm not worried at all about not winterizing.

Couple of quick points:

The water pump and associated piping are in the air return area to the furnace, if the furnace is running it is pulling warmed air across them.

If your Concord plumbing is like mine we have Hepvo waterless P-traps. Supposedly they won't freeze, however I do dump a bit of RV anti-freeze down the drains just to make sure.

Aaron

[Witch Doctor]

Thanks Aaron, my water pump is located maybe a foot or 2 from the return air vent towards the entry door. The total volume of that area is really not much, I never knew that about the traps, I have never smelled anything from the holding tanks , I'll have to read up on that design. Thanks for letting me know.[emoji106]

[Ben-Shalom]

I hunt and notice people are asking questions about propane use. Can anyone tell me how long an on-board 60 lb tank will last if I use the furnace for about 6 hours a day set at 65? I hunt and would like to be a little warm at night. The SunSeeker (30 ft) has been winterized.

[A32Deuce]

What model SunSeeker has a tank that size? Mine is only 9 gallon.

[ben31]

Originally Posted by Ben-Shalom

I hunt and notice people are asking questions about propane use. Can anyone tell me how long an on-board 60 lb tank will last if I use the furnace for about 6 hours a day set at 65? I hunt and would like to be a little warm at night. The SunSeeker (30 ft) has been winterized.

It depends on how insulated it is, how cold out it is, how often you go in and out, etc.

You can do things like: placing reflectix in the windows, placing one of those vent pillows in the overhead vents, hang a blanket behind the cab area to keep out the cold, etc. These will help extend your propane use.

If you use a generator, bring along an electrical heater and supplement the furnace by using that.

I know I didn't answer your specific question, but you'll need to experiment yourself, because no one can tell you exactly how long it will last.

[A32Deuce]

If you have a second vehicle with you, get an Extend A Stay Kit. Taps in before the unit regulator and you use 20 lb tanks that full only weight 37lbs. I use 2 rather then drive the RV to get the onboard tank refilled. One hooked up till empty the swap out with the full one and go get the empty refilled. No rushing around or disconnecting needed to refill the RV. Been doing this since 2012.

[Ben-Shalom]

[QUOTE=A32Deuce;1965632]What model SunSeeker has a tank that size? Mine is only 9 gallon.

I have a 2015 30 foot SunSeeker motorhome and I do know it is a 60 LB tank

[Witch Doctor]

Originally Posted by Ben-Shalom

I hunt and notice people are asking questions about propane use. Can anyone tell me how long an on-board 60 lb tank will last if I use the furnace for about 6 hours a day set at 65? I hunt and would like to be a little warm at night. The SunSeeker (30 ft) has been winterized.

Very hard to tell, it will depend on a lot of factors. My tank is 85 # which equals 20 gals. You can figure the BTU of the furnace per hour and then the BTU in a gal of propane and get close that way, but it will still depend on how cold it is and how long it has to be on to keep your unit at 65 degrees. There is no real hard answer to your question. Also are you going to run your W/H and refer on propane? You have to add all that in to. Only way to tell is use your unit and see when you run out.