GMRS FCC License - Do You Need one? Depends

[lemieuxray]

Thought I'd spreed some information I learned.

Just bought a pair of Cobra ACXT1035R FLT Walkie Talkies. I bought them because when we drove from Green Bay, WI to Dayton, OR at times we had no cell service to communicate between my wife and I. Thus I wanted ensure that does not happen again as we drive from Dayton, OR to Mesa, AZ over the Sierra range and other possible spotty areas.

The Cobra ACXT1035R FLT Walkie Talkies are General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) compatible and I was wondering if I needed a license to operate them in the upper range. The lower range/mode is referred to as Family Radio Service (FRS).

I had read several stories/reviews/mini blogs about whether you need a FCC license to operate in General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS). The FCC page linked describes the actual radio frequencies but as I understood in my research it actually depends on your radio output wattage.

After some investigation I discovered that because these are 2W we do not require a license. Bottom line is if your W/T or radio is 2W or under you do not need a FCC license. Anything over 2W requires a FCC license.

Of course this could change because there is a proposal in the FCC to stop issuing these licenses altogether. But that has been in the works since 2010.

[mroutlaw]

FRS (family radio service) requires no license, but GMRS ( General mobile radio service) does require a license. The license is $70 and is good for 10 years, it includes all immediate family members to use.

[lemieuxray]

Talking abut the Cobra model I bought - As an unlicensed operator, you may use channels 1-7 in "low power mode", which puts out about half a watt of power. As an unlicensed operator, you are also free to use channels 8-14, which are FRS only. The higher channels of 15-22 are GMRS only and channels 1-7 in high power mode (these radios put out about 2.5 watts) are also GMRS. If you want to use the high channels or the lower channels in HIGH POWER mode, you will need an FCC license to do so legally. THUS if you are 2W or under you do not need a license.

[TheGerman]

These hybrid FRS/GMRS radios have been a cluster from day one. Until last year channels 8-14 and low power (0.5W) were classified as FRS and didn't require a license. Using other channels at 2W was GMRS and required a license. Obviously nobody understood this and everybody was using high power on whatever channel worked for them.
The changes last year now classify the channels 1-22 when used under 2W as FRS (8-14 are still limited to 0.5W). More than 2W is GMRS. Not much better because now licensed users running up to 50W and consumer handhelds share some of the higher channels, running at different bandwidth to boot.

[lemieuxray]

Originally Posted by TheGerman

These hybrid FRS/GMRS radios have been a cluster from day one. Until last year channels 8-14 and low power (0.5W) were classified as FRS and didn't require a license. Using other channels at 2W was GMRS and required a license. Obviously nobody understood this and everybody was using high power on whatever channel worked for them.
The changes last year now classify the channels 1-22 when used under 2W as FRS (8-14 are still limited to 0.5W). More than 2W is GMRS. Not much better because now licensed users running up to 50W and consumer handhelds share some of the higher channels, running at different bandwidth to boot.

So, basically I have it right that over 2W requires a license. I understand people will/do abuse this. Especially if the unit has a boost mode/function. I was hoping by adding this thread I could shed some light on a frequently encountered question that has numerous conflicting answers throughout their threaded responses. I also read somewhere where throttling back was happening as well.

[Teamfour]

Originally Posted by lemieuxray

So, basically I have it right that over 2W requires a license.

Law says “up to two watts”. In law that means just short of two watts. If it included 2 watts, the law would say “up to and including “.

[Chuck_S]

Anything you can buy without a license will be used without a license! Expecting anything else is naive.

Amazon and others sell boxcar loads of PRC produced Baofeng (and other) transceivers weekly. These will receive (and transmit!) on FRS, GMRS, Marine VHF, 2 Meter Ham and countless other bands. Here's the description of my lil BF-F8HP hand held.

Upgrades from our Previous Generation UV-5R: Twice the Output Power (8 watts up from 4 watts output), New Hardened Durable Radio Shell, 30% Larger Battery, V-85 High Gain Antenna (Twice the Antenna Performance), USA Support + In-depth User Guide Included

High / Med / Low Power Settings (8W, 4W, 1W); Frequency Range: 65-108 MHz(Only commercial FM radio reception) VHF: 136-174 MHz(Rx/Tx). UHF: 400-520 MHz(Rx/Tx); Broad (Wide) / Narrowband (Narrow) Selectable.

Getting an amateur license to legally use the 2M band license is easy if anyone wants to bother. Advantage of a license is zoning or a HOA can't prevent you putting up an antenna.

About 4" tall less the antenna.



-- Chuck

[Velosprout]

I did get the GMRS license.

What makes me feel old is that I still recall my memorized CB license number back from the days that a CB radio required licensing (a requirement eliminated by Congress and President Reagan in 1982). I still use CBs in both of my trucks.

[Chuck_S]

The CB license was eliminated because you and I were two of the three people who bothered to get one.

License requirement is covered under various international treaties. Enforcement on these bands has little emphasis.

Listened on CB recently? Heard anything or any body? My scanner rarely detects anything even when set to concentrate on the band.

-- Chuck

[Velosprout]

Originally Posted by Chuck_S

The CB license was eliminated because you and I were two of the three people who bothered to get one.

License requirement is covered under various international treaties. Enforcement on these bands has little emphasis.

Listened on CB recently? Heard anything or any body? My scanner rarely detects anything even when set to concentrate on the band.

-- Chuck

A lot of farm semi trucks out now with harvest and some grain elevators use, so there is some rural use now along with the regular highway driver use mainly at traffic, accident sites, and road construction and when just bored. But if you get off of channel 19 I don’t find a soul. In the late 70’s each rural berg had its own channel and you couldn’t get hardly break in at all. The CB was the Facebook of the 1970s and 1980s.

I speculate that 20 years from now Facebook will be looked back on in the same way..a craze that will soon disappear.

That being said and back to the original post, handheld CBs may get a better range than GMRS, can communicate back to a vehicle based CB, and definitely doesn’t need a license. Another alternative to consider.

[NJKris]

The whole GMRS license thing is silly. FCC has been talking about getting rid of the license requirement for YEARS. Most users of these things are referred to as "bubble pack pirates" because these things are widely available in bubble packs from just about any electronics retailer. FCC does not bother enforcing anything regarding these except for egregious high power violations. Requiring a license for these things, which are rarely used by the general public (everyone uses a cell phone where ever they can get a signal)is about as silly as requiring model aircraft users to register as aircraft with the FAA (another knee-jerk feel-good piece of legislation, don't get me started on THAT).

[Adrian Gordon]

Originally Posted by Teamfour

Law says “up to two watts”. In law that means just short of two watts. If it included 2 watts, the law would say “up to and including “.

Where did you go to law school?

[Teamfour]

Why? I write and review legislation on the Hill daily.

[Iwannacamp]

Y'all kill me..... there is a PROFESSIONAL everything...

[jkoenig24]

Did Baofeng EVER improve the programming for their radios? Baofeng bad "Chinglish" instructions were a joke. The Baofeng "patch cord" I bought would NOT work in either Windows OR Mac computers. My experience is that Baofeng = JUNK.

Originally Posted by Chuck_S

Anything you can buy without a license will be used without a license! Expecting anything else is naive.
Amazon and others sell boxcar loads of PRC produced Baofeng (and other) transceivers weekly. These will receive (and transmit!) on FRS, GMRS, Marine VHF, 2 Meter Ham and countless other bands. Here's the description of my lil BF-F8HP hand held. Getting an amateur license to legally use the 2M band license is easy if anyone wants to bother. Advantage of a license is zoning or a HOA can't prevent you putting up an antenna.

About 4" tall less the antenna.



-- Chuck

[Adrian Gordon]

Originally Posted by Teamfour

Why? I write and review legislation on the Hill daily.

Never mind. I'll withdraw the question and keep on topic.

[lemieuxray]

This maybe part of what was previously mentioned but thought I'd insert the article link and a more extensive excerpt.

Just found this updated (04/28/2017) FCC Personal Radio Service Revisions Will Affect GMRS, FRS, CB, Other Part 95 Devices article at ARRL.

EXCERPT:
The amended rules eventually will eliminate combination FRS/GMRS radios for the most part, but allow up to 2 W PEP output for FRS transceivers. “[M]any current users of GMRS/FRS combination radios do not obtain licenses to operate over the GMRS frequencies in those radios,” the FCC said. “Much of this problem likely arises as a result of the mass consumer marketing of combination devices for sale to the public in large quantities to users who do not know about or do not understand the licensing requirements attached to such radios and obligations associated with operating in the GMRS.”

The FCC said it no longer will certify FRS devices that incorporate GMRS capabilities or capabilities of other services. Existing GMRS/FRS combination radios that operate at power levels of less than 2 W ERP will be reclassified as FRS devices; existing GMRS/FRS radios that operate above that power level will be reclassified as GMRS devices, requiring an individual license. Radios that can transmit on GMRS repeater input channels will continue to be licensed individually and not by rule.

“We believe the 2 W limit for FRS is appropriate, because many of the existing combination GMRS/FRS radios already operate under that level with no significant complaints about interference or other problems, and it provides a reasonable balance between the desire for increased range over the prior FRS power levels and battery life,” the FCC said.

[NJKris]

Good. My Midland GXT1000 portables can be switched to medium power, 2W. Still legal.

[Scheinin]

I have a GMRS radio and use the 5 W frequency. Never heard of anyone being cited for doing this. Is there really anyone policing this?

[Ohinaz1970]

Regards "Chucks" comment about HOA and Zoning not being able to prevent a licensed ham operator from erecting an antenna is technically correct, reality of that is you must be willing to put up enough money to fight their high-handed enforcement of "their" covenants and restrictions.