How cold is too cold for camping?

[driftinby]

In frantic anticipation of taking delivery of our new Grey Wolf 26dbh any day now, we've been kicking around the idea of making our maiden voyage to a year 'round campground in Breckenridge Colorado for the brew fest on 4/11. Previously, we've camped in our pup with overnight temps down to the low teens and have woke up with snow on the ground. But the water tank in our pup was inside the box under the dinette seat and the waste tank for the cassette toilet was inside the box as well and we never had a problem with the freezing temps.

So it might be an impossible question to answer, but how cold is too cold for a TT? This time of year in Beautiful Breckenridge, we see daytime highs near 50f and overnight lows down to the mid 20's. Is there anything that I should be concerned about camping in a TT in these temps? For a short 2-night trip where we would only be sleeping in the TT and not spending much time in it, we could live without running water if need be.

[Starboard]

If you can live without running water, I say go for it! Just prepare to run the propane heat a lot and have an empty propane tank when you return - you'll probably burn though a 20gal tank in a single weekend trying to keep the heat in.

[driftinby]

Originally Posted by Starboard

If you can live without running water, I say go for it! Just prepare to run the propane heat a lot and have an empty propane tank when you return - you'll probably burn though a 20gal tank in a single weekend trying to keep the heat in.

Good point but I think you mean 20-pound tank. Propane tanks are sized according to how many pounds of propane they can hold and are made in 20, 30, 40 or 100 pound sizes for vertical installations. A 20# bottle holds 4.7 gallons. Therefore a "20gal tank", if one existed, would hold 85 pounds of propane plus the tank itself would probably weight 60 lbs or more. Imagine a couple of those strapped to the tongue!

Nevertheless, I don't burn propane for heat when I've paid to have shore power at a site. YMMV, but I've never understood why people insist to burn money using propane and put wear and tear on an expensive appliance when they can heat electrically with inexpensive space heaters.

[mjones12]

Why worry about running water? Hook it up and use it. If you're heating the inside of the camper your water lines won't freeze. They're inside. Your fresh water hose might freeze. Unless you have a heated one, unhook and drain the hose at bedtime and hook it up again the next morning.

With highs around 50 and overnight lows in the mid-20's, I don't think you have anything at all to worry about. We often camp in those conditions, and even into the teens, and we'll typically use a 30-pound tank of propane in a little under a week. To cut down on that, you can add a small ceramic electric heater.

[Starboard]

Originally Posted by driftinby

Good point but I think you mean 20-pound tank.

Correct, thats what I meant.


Just be careful with electric space heaters, they can be dangerous (as I am sure other things can be dangerous as well) if not used properly.

[driftinby]

Originally Posted by mjones12

Why worry about running water? Hook it up and use it. If you're heating the inside of the camper your water lines won't freeze. They're inside. Your fresh water hose might freeze. Unless you have a heated one, unhook and drain the hose at bedtime and hook it up again the next morning.

Thanks for the feedback... that is what I'm looking for! I didn't think about that- using city water and just disconnecting it at night. I suppose anything in the grey and black tanks would defrost before dumping... assuming you could freeze a turd? I've heard of people polishing them! I think the key is that it's not a hard freeze this time of year... dipping below freezing for a couple hours at night probably isn't enough to cause any damage even if the coach isn't heated.

[brer_rabbit10]

I second the post on electric heaters. Most today are "turn off when tipped over", but the wiring of the trailer circuit may not be sufficient to carry the load. And breakers don't always break. Consider an electric blanket and sweaters. Seriously. I lived on a boat for a couple of years just outside of D.C., and it was fine.

[aerohead34]

I have been living in my 284BH since August. It has the cold weather package with the floor insulated. I have a small radiator style electric heater with a timer set to come on around 4PM and turn off around 10. I went to a RV show in January and picked up a heated water hose (electric) rated to -40. The $100 investment was worth every penny. I am working in South Carolina but near the mountains so it was always windy and got down close to single digits a few times over the winter. My propane heater had vents through the floor so it kept the floor and internal piping from freezing. I still opened all the cabinet doors where the water lines ran to the sinks. My camper has a switch to turn on the propane side of the electric water heater. It makes a big difference warming up the hot water. I was fortunate the land owner for the lot I am renting had a 100lb propane tank. It lasts close to a month where the 20 lb tank (the 284BH has two) would last a week with auxiliary electric heat and a few days without it. My electric heater had three settings on it. I typically kept it on the lowest setting except when it was single digits. Hope this helps.

[DXSMac]

I've been down to MINUS TEN with my Arctic Pak. You wouldn't want to do this without an Arctic Pak. Need to keep your holding tanks warm.

If you are 30 amp, you can run your water heater on Propane and then run two space heaters inside the coach. That's what I do. But as said before, expect to run out of propane in two days.

[brer_rabbit10]

I'd be very careful about running two space heaters on the same circuit. Check the load on the circuit and then how much max load the two heaters would add.

[aerohead34]

One thing I forgot. I keep the grey tank butterfly valve open. I learned the hard way that since the valve is exposed to the air, it freezes and you cant open it to drain the gray tank. You should be able to keep your 26 foot warm with a single electric heater to augment the propane heater. I kept my thermostat on 68 and had a comforter on each bed. You will be fine.

[mjones12]

Yeah, I had the dump valve on gray tank freeze shut in the teens, but 10 seconds with a hair dryer fixed it.

[Ryno22980]

We bow hunt in our TT late in October here in WI. Highs are commonly in the mid 40s and lows in the 20s at night. We have gun hunted in late November a few times as well and dealt with lows in the single digits. This was boondocking and using the water system.

I had one fresh water line going to the shower freeze up on me, because it ran through a unheated storage area. Unheated supply lines will always be the first to freeze in extreme temps. Fresh water holding tanks take a long time to freeze and just being in close proximity to the heated coach and intermittent cycling of the water pump will likely prolong any freezing. If you have any fresh water supply lines that run in the open air. Heat tracing cable can be taped to it and foam pipe insulation over the top of that can do the trick. I even found 12V DC powered heat trace that you can order with it's own thermostat so it automatically turns on and off at predetermined temps to save battery power.

We have done these cold trips for 3-4 night stints. The biggest problem for us wasn't the water freezing up or running out of propane, it was conserving battery power. 2 6V golf cart batteries could get the job done for about 3-4 nights with October temps, but not late November temps.

My new plan this year is to purchase one of the quiet 2000 watt inverter generators and use a baffling box that I have built to get it even quieter. I will probably run this set up overnight, each night to power the space heaters and recharge the house battery. I hate noise, especially when I hunt locations that are only 100 yards or so away from my TT.

Sorry for the long story, but I know a few years back when I was learning how to pull this off, this type of info would have been helpful to me. Good Luck.

[Ryno22980]

Also forgot to mention, if you start with totally empty waste holding tanks, you can pour some RV antifreeze into the grey and black tanks. The antifreeze should settle into the waste gate valves and should prevent those from totally freezing up before you dump.

[mjones12]

Originally Posted by Ryno22980

Also forgot to mention, if you start with totally empty waste holding tanks, you can pour some RV antifreeze into the grey and black tanks. The antifreeze should settle into the waste gate valves and should prevent those from totally freezing up before you dump.

That's a good point.

[frozen]

In addition to consuming a lot of propane, the furnace is likely to deplete a single battery in one night if not on AC power. Several years ago we purchased a Big Buddy Heater made by Mr. Heater. They can run on two-one pound propane bottles, or can be connected to 20 or 30 lb. tanks using the built-in quick-attach fitting. Since we don't use our outside grill, I routed the grill's gas line inside, found the correct fitting at the hardware store and attached to the Big Buddy. It has 3 heat outputs, 4000, 9000, 18,000 BTU, is said to be 99% efficient (unvented), safe for enclosed spaces as long as a window is cracked for replacement oxygen (it has an oxygen depletion sensor and will shut off), uses no electricity unless the built-in fan is used (we don't). It's about half the size of a carry-on suitcase, completely portable, uses very little propane compared to your furnace. We've been using ours for several years with no problem. We bought ours for around $100 at a fleet farm store. We also carry an electric space heater. Do a search on Big Buddy Portable Heater. They also sell a smaller unit with 4000-9000 BTU outputs, but the price difference isn't substantial and it would be insufficient for serious cold.

[Ryno22980]

Good point Frozen, I forgot about that. We also have used a "Little Buddy" heater with the window cracked with great success during cold weather camping. Definitely prevents the furnace fan from toasting the house batteries.

[driftinby]

Wahoo! Was contacted by the dealer this morning and our coach has arrived however, the soonest we can get in for delivery is Monday at 3p.

All good tips, thanks! For a very long time, the use of space heaters have come under much debate... I won't question your political views if you don't question my choice to use a space heater although I appreciate the steadfast warnings. I'm not concerned with wiring or circuitry of a TT that was manufactured in the last 30 years... Much like a house built in the same period that follow NEC codes required for human habitats.

I agree, the radiator style of heaters are fantastic and we have 2 and now with more space in our TT it will most likely replace the stinky ceramic ones. I've used them in my garage in the winter when working on projects and 2 together, on high will trip a 15 amp circuit.

I've heard about the Buddy Heaters and they seem like a good option. I'll have to look into that and the heated city water hose if we find ourselves doing much winter camping. Luckily, we're hearty folks and have good equipment having tent camped for a number of years so bundling up when it's cold won't be a problem.

Putting antifreeze in the tanks to keep the valve from freezing- very smart.

Thanks for all the first tips... I think we going to give it a try with city water.

[Life Without Whine]

Did you get the heated mattress option? I just pulled mine out for a more comfortable bed with living / camping here in FL I don't need it ...if you want it, it's yours (short queen)

[B and B]

Safety Alert. Burning a Propane heater inside the camper creates carbon monoxide. Unless a window and vent is open you could have a build up of CO and loose Oxygen for sustaining life.