How hot is normal?

[DavidBo]

Originally Posted by KatanaPilot

Guess we would be best served by bringing home our new MH/TT, completely disassembling it and then putting it back together making sure it's done properly. Sure can't depend on the QC folks on the assembly line.

But then again, I'm supposed to enjoy rebuilding what I paid all those dollars to buy.

Maybe not in a perfect world, but sometimes you have to take safety issues into your own hands, especially critical systems like electricity. The simple fact that people have discovered problems that can jeopardize your well being in the long term means that a little investigation on your own is time well spent.

[JCamper]

Just wanted to get back and thank everyone for their feedback and comments. Day 3 now and we are plugging along fine. I'm keeping an eye on the wires and wire nuts and they are cool with AC and fridge running on the 110.
I point the finger at General RV for this one. Someone commented why the trailer is 3 years old and it's just now happening. It's because this happened after General replaced our shore cord last year and obviously left wire nuts loose. The combination of that and the heat from the AC unit issue we had earlier on the trip (compressor constantly trying to fire pulling tons of amps) melted everything is my guess.
Last year the other end of the shore cord melted from pulling 30amps in 114 degrees for 4 days straight.
Anyway, I guess this is another one of those we got lucky situations, having found this before we left the trailer for the day. Or we might have come back to the fire dept toasting smores over the coals.

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by JCamper

I point the finger at General RV for this one. Someone commented why the trailer is 3 years old and it's just now happening. It's because this happened after General replaced our shore cord last year and obviously left wire nuts loose. The combination of that and the heat from the AC unit issue we had earlier on the trip (compressor constantly trying to fire pulling tons of amps) melted everything is my guess.
Last year the other end of the shore cord melted from pulling 30amps in 114 degrees for 4 days straight.

Thank You JCamper for reporting back on this thread, and letting everyone know that this problem was not due to the manufacturer. [emoji106]

[Mainframe]

I don't like the way an RV wire nut is designed, I don't think the traditional wire nut is designed to bounce down the road, here is how I think they should be designed, and should at least be used on high amp draw items like A/C and hot water heaters etc.

Just my thoughts

[Joe_GA]

Originally Posted by Mainframe

I don't think the traditional wire nut is designed to bounce down the road,
Just my thoughts

Here is something to consider...bouncing down the road. It can cause problems. As a former electrician and electronics engineer, I don't trust a connection to just a twist of a wire nut. ALL of my wire splices are made by twisting the clean bare wires tightly together with a pair of pliers. Then, I trim the end so it is blunt (wire ends are together). Next the wire nut is twisted on and I add a bit more twist with the pliers for a good tight connection. As wires carry current, they will heat. Heat causes expansion, cooling causes contraction. A pair of wires side by side in a wire nut will do a lot of wiggling over time and can loosen. Screw terminals experience the same expansion and contraction plus the vibration of road travel. Things can loosen over time, but proper connections can help prevent or minimize that effect. While working as a contractor for the US Navy, I saw their preventative maintenance program in action. Once a year, they shut down buildings for PM. The electricians would remove breaker box covers and inspect for burnt wires and put a screwdriver on every screw to ensure they were all tight. And, this is on a building that does not travel down the road! I periodically do this on my own breaker panels in the house and the camper.

[Mr Havercamp]

The question I have for the OP is was the wire nut connection there from the factory, and General RV left the connection loose when they replaced the cord?.......Or was some other type of connection there before and General RV replaced it with the wire nut connection? The third question is could you tell if the conductors were twisted together or were they relying on the wire nut to be the connection?

Its still a good idea to go over, or have someone who knows electrical if you do not, go over your electrical system. What was done to ours when it was installed by over tightening and stripping all the screws on the breakers and ground / neutral bars was an absolute joke.

[clr]

Just curious here. I have been all around in and under my 2015 Prime Time Sanibel 5th wheel and there is not a wire nut any were to be found. All of the connections inside are covered crimp on type connectors, all most the same type as used by some electricians in homes. All of the outside connectors are Scot lock type with a grease type filling so as to limit corrosion. Of course not every part of Forest River may use the same type of connector. Also and maybe more important I have never seen a wire nut on the main AC power cable connection. That wire should run directly from the outside main AC power cable connector to the main fuse box (converter) with no splices. My way of saying that if the dealer used wire nuts to connect the cable this was a major error and they should be told about this. Just my two cents worth here.

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by clr

J That wire should run directly from the outside main AC power cable connector to the main fuse box (converter) with no splices.

Not all trailers have a connectable/ removable shore power cord. What some have is a cable hatch that you pop open and pull the cord out. The cord stores inside a cavity on the inside of the wall and in a lot of cases they build a plywood box the cord piles into in a storage area. The correct way to make those connections from the flexible cord to the Romex is in inside a metal or plastic junction box with the conductors twisted. Then a crimp cap is used followed by a wire nut only for its insulation value, then they should also be taped.

But they should be done in a j box with box connectors so pulling the cable in and out does not put strain on or move the connection.

I hope you do not have 3M crimp connectors on your 120V AC wiring in your Sanibel? Rockwood has them everywhere on the 12V DC connections but all the 120V AC connections connect at devices. I don't even trust those crimp connectors for the 12VDC including the "supposed" weather proof ones used under the trailer. I replaced every one I could get to.

[RVPP]

Might just be the answer to whatever the question was :-)

30 AMP Product -

[clr]

You are correct the 120v wiring is a direct run with no connections per the code. The crimp type connections are only used in the 12V circuits. The 3M scot lock connections are used by telephone companies now for many years with very good results so I have no problem with there use in a camper. Just wondering what you replaced your 12V connectors with? Short of soldering and heat shrinking each connection point I know of no better connection method.

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by clr

Y Just wondering what you replaced your 12V connectors with? Short of soldering and heat shrinking each connection point I know of no better connection method.

In the space behind the converter and behind the control panel near the door, I used distribution terminal blocks for the most part where I could fit and access them. Everywhere else I soldered and used heat shrink. The ones underneath were done with 3M adhesive lined waterproof tubing.

We had a Keystone Hybrid and one of the few problems we ever had with it was some of those damn crimp connectors.

A lot of times its probably the idiot doing the crimping, but once they're done you have no way to tell. On this Rockwood, I was able to pull a few wires out of some of them easily, so I know it would be a future issue.

Underneath was generally a joke. All the 12VDC wires run from A frame to rear including the brake wiring was attached to the frame with maybe 3 zip ties. There were wires not attached and hanging down for 6' at least. One tree branch or something on the road and there go's the lights, the brakes, and who knows what else.

[Leonandpandora]

I work in industrial construction and we regularly install a.c. and dc. Wiring on conveyor. To make connections we no longer use wire nuts. We use wego connections. Strip insert and snap. Much safer. Use on both a.c. and dc. When I find wire nuts in my trailer they are immediately replaced with a wego. You can find them at HD and Lowe's.

[emm-dee]

Originally Posted by Leonandpandora

I work in industrial construction and we regularly install a.c. and dc. Wiring on conveyor. To make connections we no longer use wire nuts. We use wego connections. Strip insert and snap. Much safer. Use on both a.c. and dc. When I find wire nuts in my trailer they are immediately replaced with a wego. You can find them at HD and Lowe's.

Thanks for that information. I've been wondering what those little things are called. I couldn't find wego but did find wago.

What is the difference in the five colors they come in? I assume it has a relation to the wire size?

[Leonandpandora]

Yep wago. Different colors are used in junction boxes or panels,Push ins. Mostly what I use are the lever lock gray and orange for replacing wire nuts.Much more secure.

[thandel]

The AC works really hard to cool things down after setting up on a real hot day. We find that running the Fantastic ceiling exhaust fan helps a lot by pushing out hot air near the ceiling while the cool air from the AC drops to the floor. After about 5-10 minutes of running both, we turn off the exhaust fan and turn on the regular ceiling fan to mix the room air up a bit. This works well for us and it takes a lot less time to cool the unit down.

[OldCoot]

Best way is to twist the bare wires together, solder and then twist on the wire nut and tape.

[Jim in Halifax]

I did away with all the wire nuts in my unit......I soldered all the connections and then taped them up........The 7 wire connector from the TV is a prime example of this needed mod...check the white wires!!!! j

[Iwannacamp]

Originally Posted by clr

Just curious here. I have been all around in and under my 2015 Prime Time Sanibel 5th wheel and there is not a wire nut any were to be found. All of the connections inside are covered crimp on type connectors, all most the same type as used by some electricians in homes. All of the outside connectors are Scot lock type with a grease type filling so as to limit corrosion. Of course not every part of Forest River may use the same type of connector. Also and maybe more important I have never seen a wire nut on the main AC power cable connection. That wire should run directly from the outside main AC power cable connector to the main fuse box (converter) with no splices. My way of saying that if the dealer used wire nuts to connect the cable this was a major error and they should be told about this. Just my two cents worth here.

X2. I was thinking the same....but this was prolly more work.


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[jcarlilesiu]

Originally Posted by Mr Havercamp

Loose connection from factory...you're extremely lucky. Another fine example of fine craftsmanship and quality control. I was reading another thread recently where the trailer side Furrion connection melted down on a new Coachmen TT due to loose connections at its screw terminals.

I hope you reported this properly to the NHTSA? Eventually someone is going to be killed because they are evidently using workers who are either unqualified or just don't care, then the units are pushed out the door with no inspections / quality control. This is not an example of a bad component supplied by some vendor which is inconsequential regardless.

A unit getting shipped with plumbing leaks is one thing as I don't think anyone has ever drowned from one. Sending it out with loose or improper electrical connections is something entirely different. This kind of stuff is downright life threatening.

On our 2017 Roo I changed my converter guts to a Powermax Boondocker. While doing so I discovered all the 12V main connections and grounds were loose including the large gauge feeds from the battery. 12V DC can overheat or arc and cause fires also. The 120V AC connections at the circuit breakers were all over tightened to the point that they smashed the actual conductors flat. They used a square drive bit in a screw-gun to tighten the breaker lugs, and tightened the lugs to the point of stripping the square recess on the screw out. Now you can't get them loose should a breaker go bad but when they smashed the wire flatter than paper, all you have to do is move it a little and it will break right off. I had to redress the entire power center, both the AC and DC sides.

Since the same line worker usually does the same job over and over, day after day, you can bet the farm if one is done wrong, so is every other one.

I noticed the same thing when adding a transfer switch to my 2017 roo. All the bus bar screws were so over tightened, I couldn't get them out. Except for that one on the metal neutral bus that want tighten at all and just fell out. [emoji35]

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[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by jcarlilesiu

I noticed the same thing when adding a transfer switch to my 2017 roo. All the bus bar screws were so over tightened, I couldn't get them out. Except for that one on the metal neutral bus that want tighten at all and just fell out. [emoji35]

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

Since I discovered the issue on our 2017 I have taken a look at the power center in half a dozen different Rockwood products, ranging from 2015 models to 2017, and every one had over tightened and stripped screws/lugs at breakers and ground/neutral bars to some extent.

I replaced both the ground and neutral bars along with all the breakers in ours....every single one was stripped but one breaker. It was about $25 total in parts as I had a few compatible breakers laying around.