I don't get it.

NWJeeper · 06-10-2010, 12:04 PM

-Rant on-

So it seems to come up at least once a week here. Someone avails to the friendly and knowledgeable folks here on this forum for advice on whether they should or can pull "X" trailer with "X" tow vehicle. Once they get the answer they were so obviously not wanting "no you shouldn't" they add the caveat: "but I am only traveling between 2 or 3 hours from home"

Am I missing something or do people actually think that they can disregard the safety of themselves, their family and others on the road because they are only traveling 2 or 3 hours from home?

Is there some unwritten rule that an accident will only occur after one has travelled more than 3 hours from home? Do hopped up metheads only cut you off or pull out in front of you after you have travelled for more than 3 hours? Does the need to be able to take safe evasive actions because the idiot in front of you wasn't paying attention to traffic and just caused an accident never happen on flat an level ground where you "will only be pulling this trailer"?

I know dealers spread a lot of bad information while trying to sell a trailer to those that don't know any better. The maximum towing capacity of vehicles also isn't well explained or understood by many either. Engine size isn't the be all end all determining factor in choosing to pull a 35' 5er with a Yugo fitted with a Ford 460 engine!

People. SAFETY STARTS IN THE DRIVEWAY! Not just 3 hours away from home. There are a lot of very knowledgeable and experienced RV owners here so if they say your TV will not pull "X" trailer SAFELY then their advice should be well heeded! Just because you are travelling only "2 or 3 hours from home" is no excuse to not do it safely.

-Rant Off-

MtnGuy · 06-10-2010, 12:35 PM

Well said.

acadianbob · 06-10-2010, 12:45 PM

Or the responses that are something like "I made it alive doing that once so it must be OK"

ilovecamping · 06-10-2010, 12:56 PM

Or the 'but I see others doing it that way'. I agree, "well said".

EdJunior · 06-10-2010, 01:05 PM

We can only recommend and advise. We cannot make them do what they know they should do.

Willie · 06-10-2010, 01:08 PM

Understood and completely agree.

grandpaofthree · 06-10-2010, 01:11 PM

Somewhere along the line I have seen some links to videos showing the perils of improper towing set-ups. Those need to be the standard reply when this happens. I know seeing one caused me to change my set up.

TulsaSteve · 06-10-2010, 02:16 PM

I'll slice this a little thinner, but I don't disagree with the comments so far. There are BIG items like the right truck with the right wheelbase, etc.. Can't skimp on any of that.

BUT.. Let's say you are ONLY going to tow to a few nearby campgrounds and you have no significant grades, low/no risk of high winds.. you've driven it a 100 times and it's an easy clear shot and you'll take the trip a few times a year so your yearly miles traveled will be very low and the miles will be easy/low risk.

Well then you probably could skimp on some of the "optional upgrades" and still be safe. Maybe you don't put extra coolers on the truck or you don't have power brakes on the TOAD.

In this end this is pointless, because the day will come when your buddy/wife/husband says "Let's drive 2000 miles on a trip thru the desert and into the mountains in the middle of summer". Then you'll have spent money on gear that isn't up to the challenge and/or you'll need all the "optional upgrades" to stay safe.

I buy the best gear I can find.. and when I'm on a short/easy trip it's that much safer/easier. Plus I need all that gear to keep us safe when I'm doing emergency manuevers to avoid the cracks heads.

You haven't lived until your riding a motorcycle @ 65 MPH behind a pickup and a coffee table flys out of the bed!

NWJeeper · 06-10-2010, 02:24 PM

Excellent points Steve. As for the motorcycle, I've been there. Rode a bike for 7 years as the only transportation. I've seen most of the stupid things motorist can do, and riding a bike while doing so will put your mind in a whole other perspective when it comes to safety on the road!

Willie · 06-10-2010, 03:08 PM

Well, now that you mentioned Steve, I agree with you. I didn't ellaborate before but I fall in the exact same category. We have only gotten into TTrailering in the last 2 1/2 yrs. We go locally and know the area quite well, no hills, no dangerous cliffs, no extra loading. We just got our second TT Brand Spanking New and thinking on exploring further out. I appreciatte all of you being hard on Safety, in my mind this is not negotiable (as Jeeper stated). I had been reading your forums for quite sometime and learned quite a bit. When I started I had no clue what 3:73, 4:10, WDH, TW, TV, RDC, GVWR Dry, etc, or any of that stuff was nor I thought I needed to know. It is because of All of YOU that I can somewhat chat, chew & Spit at the same time.
While shopping for the new TT, I inquired the sales people for specifics things that I've read here and some of them didn't even know what the heck I was talking about or they would give me a generic answer.
I, for one asked a couple of pointers on towing since we bought the TT. I'm seriously thinking of upgrading TV for the same safety reasons, (Family, safety of others and caring for new TT). I think some folks ask questions because they respect and admire your comments...no matter how dumb the question might be.

I don't disagree, some folks are out there are asking questions to validate their workarounds and that messes things up for us newbees.

my two 0.02

fivecodys · 06-10-2010, 05:08 PM

Sometimes newbie's don't find out about sites like this one, or others, until they have already made their purchases.
I think that these are the ones who are looking for justification in what they are doing.

You know that the dealers won't tell a perspective buyer "Hey, you should go to this web site and get the opinions of other RVers before you buy."

I have a good friend who thinks that his 3/4 ton is rated to pull any trailer on the market. It's hard to get through to that type of mentality.
Maybe I need to use a bigger stick.

Bill

Sagebrush · 06-10-2010, 05:08 PM

Got to agree with you. Was ready to try and tow our new Fifth wheel with a 1/2 ton truck because "THEY" said you could. After reading all the why nots on this forum, I ended up with a 2500HD and I feel great about that decision. Feel more in control, like I'm towing the trailer...not the trailer pushing me.

fivecodys · 06-10-2010, 05:09 PM

Sorry.
Didn't mean to post here.

Bill

dimurrrw · 06-10-2010, 05:41 PM

I think there is a point hidden in all of this. People do need to learn! Even those who are too (fill in the words) to do their own research and put forth the effort to learn. Also, there are those who are just shopping for answers that will justify what they think or what someone, like a salesman, has told them. I just love the posts that say something like: "I have a 2002 F-150 and want to tow a 2679FLS, will this work?" These people must think we intuitively know the capabilities of their truck or the make/specs on a 2679FLS. I think we do these people a disservice if we research and answer their questions. Outside of our specific answers, they still won't have a clue as to what is going on. Consider "If you give a man a fish..."

I submit that there should be a document on this forum that we could send to these folks as a link. It could say, in a polite way and to give a basic outline:
A) Refer to your vehicle literature/ask your vehicle dealer/ search the manufacturer's website/search the internet for the following information about your tow vehicle.... Study and learn what these things mean.
B) Do the same thing for your trailer/fifth wheel. Find this information... You may also find some information on the sticker on the side of your trailer. Again, research and learn.
C) If you still have questions, post your question again. However, include all of the above information in your post or we will not be able to share our thoughts.

Just my 2 cents worth.

pondlady · 06-10-2010, 06:13 PM

As someone who runs a website that give out solicited advice, I have learned something you already know. We only listen to answers we like to hear. If the answer tells us what we don't want to hear, something that might cost a few bucks, something that makes us work a bit, we argue back. I wonder why anyone like that asks advice in the first place. Makes ya wonder why you take your time to answer, doesn't it?

08flagvlite · 06-10-2010, 06:23 PM

Okay, I guess we should all trade in any tow vehicle that is not a F 350 dually diesel,(or equivalent) because that seems to be the only truly "safe", or "made for towing" vehicle out there. Some of us, believe it or not don't use our campers but one weekend a month, and use the tow vehicle for daily commuting. While there is no stated "must have" vehicle for this chore, you really have to use your better judgement and hopefully come up with a safe, sensible combination that fits the job. It really depends on the weight and length, geographical location for what you really need. That's my 2 cents worth.

cardinal4fun · 06-10-2010, 06:24 PM

Boy oh Boy its really hard when people just do not understand or do not fit into everyone elses learning curve. Anyway here is a good link people with 5th wheels can use. Fifth Wheel Weight Calculator

TulsaSteve · 06-10-2010, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 08flagvlite

Okay, I guess we should all trade in any tow vehicle that is not a F 350 dually diesel,(or equivalent) because that seems to be the only truly "safe", or "made for towing" vehicle out there. Some of us, believe it or not don't use our campers but one weekend a month, and use the tow vehicle for daily commuting.

You could buy a Peterbuilt and eventually someone will say you went too small.
My Georgetown has the Ford Triton V10 and some folks say that I'm nuts because I don't have air brakes and a diesel. And yet I have no problems with coming down steep grades and passing, the computer working the transmission brake is amazing.

shineysideup · 06-10-2010, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 08flagvlite

Okay, I guess we should all trade in any tow vehicle that is not a F 350 dually diesel,(or equivalent) because that seems to be the only truly "safe", or "made for towing" vehicle out there. Some of us, believe it or not don't use our campers but one weekend a month, and use the tow vehicle for daily commuting. While there is no stated "must have" vehicle for this chore, you really have to use your better judgement and hopefully come up with a safe, sensible combination that fits the job. It really depends on the weight and length, geographical location for what you really need. That's my 2 cents worth.

I gotta add my 2 cents. I see no "rule of thumb ratings" when it comes to vehicle capabilities and manufacturers ratings (other than marketing reasons).

Case in point, a jeep liberty. 5000lb. tow capacity, VERY short wheelbase, antiquated 4 speed transmission, 210 hp motor. This would be the last vehicle I would choose to tow with, I don't care what the manufacturer says yet many people figure that this would be fine (by the numbers).

I tow with a minivan (shoot me now...). I have had my van set up from a dealer that has been doing this for 40+ years. I had the benefit of trying the whole setup before I bought. I've seen countless trucks with that "I can tow anything attitude", no W.D. or sway control, headlights in the sky... Everything is good though, I have a truck!

I don't discount all the advice that is posted here but everyone's situation is not the same. An F350 in my driveway is not in the cards for the 2000km of towing I do a year (typically).

MtnGuy · 06-10-2010, 09:14 PM

When I asked 1 dealer to show me his lightweight trailers under 25', he asked me what I was going to be towing with. I told him a 2006 F150 rated to tow 9300 lbs. He made the statement "Oh, you can tow any trailer on the lot". That might have been true weight wise, but not length wise. He didn't ask me what my wheelbase was.....he just wanted to sell me something big with a big commission. And that is not what I asked him to show me. I refused to look at the big stuff.....I wanted a lightweight trailer under 25'. Well OK, I did get a lightweight trailer, but it is 28.5'......but I did not buy from that dealer. I feel my trailer at 5500 lbs. and 28.5' is about all I am comfortable with with my truck, period.

The point is with all of this rambling, is that the dealers want to sell trailers no matter what. The dealer will sell a newbie a trailer, then they come here as an after thought. We gotta be the ones to break the news....."that is probably not a good combination".

Like 08flagvlite, I tow with what I have.....a 1/2 ton, long wheelbase truck with a V8, good final drive ratio. All of the stats are well within Fords towing guide maximums. It tows good, stops good, and I am confident that I am towing safer than maybe 90% of the other trailers on the road out there. I have done the fender measurements, made numerous trips across the scales, read everything possible on towing......and most important, drive defensively. I think I am a lot more safe on the road than a 3/4 ton truck driver pulling the same camper without a WDH and sway control with the attitude......"oh, I got a heavy duty truck, I don't need all of stuff."

Would a 3/4 ton truck pulling my camper with the same WDH and sway control be safer.....quite possible. Would a 1 ton in the same situation be safer than a 3/4 ton truck be safer.....quite possible again......but maybe a little overkill ???

We need to continue to help the newbies as much as possible with the combined knowledge that we have, and let them know if we don't think that their setup is up to snuff.

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