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Old 08-28-2015, 07:27 AM   #181
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In my opinion, never tell the police any more than you have to and never consent to a search. Go to YouTube and search for "never talk to the police" and you will find law professors telling you not to do it. I mean no disrespect to the police, but it is their job to find something, anything you are doing or have that is illegal. I am one of the most boring people they would ever search, but I still would not let them do it. I bought my RV used and there is no way to know what the prior owner did in there. He may have left something stashed away that I wouldn't know about and next thing you know, I am left trying to prove it wasn't mine.

Also, if you have any guns on you, there is no way to know for sure that you aren't violating one of the millions of gun laws. You break just one and now you are a criminal who may no longer be allowed to own a gun. It isn't the cops fault, it is the public's fault for creating so many laws that honest citizens are turned into criminals.

Be courteous. Be respectful. But just say no.
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Old 08-28-2015, 08:17 AM   #182
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I think you hit the nail right there... It is not the cops fault for the laws. We do not make them, the people WE supposedly elected to represent us do... If we do jot like the laws we fire our representatives and replace them with people who actually work for you and I. We allowed me to be able to search your car without a warrant or reason in some places... We missed it because we spent to much time looking at media reports of race issues in the police, gay marriage and the fear mongering of terrorism.... All were a ruse to keep our attention from the real issues.

All while this is happening and America is sleeping... Your rights are slowly (and picking up speed) going RIGHT OUT OF THE DOOR!

You can complain all you want about how terible the policia is to the little poor peasants but what no one ever says is they are only doing the job that the people allowed... They are following the laws and rules as set by the people we elected... So in the end we got what we allowed.

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Old 08-28-2015, 08:23 AM   #183
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All I can say to folks is do not believe everything on Youtube, Facebook or what your buddies, friend's friend once heard.. AND NOT EVERYTHING ON THE INTERNET IS TRUE... I could be a 12 year old kid sitting in my parent's basement on my Xbox, no way to know for sure. In the end every state (sometimes city) is different and what I may say is OK in PA will get you arrested in NJ. If something is done incorrectly by the officer that is what complaint forms are for, the court to sort it out is arrested, lawyer and law suits.


Think I got it all.

Description of how our traffic tickets work and how to handle:
http://www.pabar.org/clips/trafficviolations.pdf
VERY well said sir!!
Stay safe and thank you for holding the line!
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Old 08-28-2015, 09:03 AM   #184
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For us in PA I just need Probable cause, which would cover 1 and 3 because I would have PC (proof that a crime is happening or happened). I may cover 2 as well but I could not think of case where I would be using the fact that I think your going to commit a crime. I am sure one could come up with one, just cannot think of it at this second.

On further thought... Just thinking out loud. If I only had 2 I prob should have gotten a warrant. No lawyer, but I would think at that point this would mean I have prior knowledge and therefore would NOT be able to use the MV Exception because it requires NO PRIOR KNOWLEDGE or time to get a warrant.

On a traffic stop you are required to provided license, registration, and proof of insurance for the driver only (IN PA) passengers do not need to ID themselves by law. If you are detained then you do not need ID yourself. If it is a mere encounter (walking down the street and the cop asked to talk for a few minutes or you get your stuff back from the officer after a car stop and told you are free to leave) you can just ignore them and walk / drive away. (PA LAW)

EDIT: After more thought... Officer cannot just believe to have PC they have to have solid hard fact, not a believe something MAY have occurred or did occur. That would be Reasonable Suspicion, so not allowed to search without warrant or prob even get a warrant.
I just want to THANK-YOU for doing your job. I also would like to thank-you for all the information that you took the time to explain. Anytime a LEO makes a stop he is taking his life in danger. As we all know what a tough balancing act you guy's and gals have. I have a deep respect for any one who enters your field to help and assist others. This has been an eye opener for me, and I have read every post. SO THANKS AGAIN.....
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Old 08-28-2015, 09:34 AM   #185
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I get it from your view points the mistrust in many people.

How many in this forum have served their country as Military?
How many in foreign lands?

When we talk of distrust of authorities, I have to keep in mind that the majority of our and your LEO's are law abiding citizens doing a job and want to get home at the end of the day to their families.

we are so blessed in both countries to have laws enacted to protect us against - sometimes ourselves...
-
have you been to Afghanistan, Iraq, Bosnia, where speaking your mind results in you and your family ends in torture, rape and murders, often carried out by corrupt police.

how about working in a job where your co-worker the next day you are off and they are not, level the building because they were a radical member of some resistance group.

I have...

the national police I worked with in Afcrapistan walked away form traffic control points because being paid to growing drugs by the cartel was more profitable than the 2$ a day the government was paying them to be moral law abiding citizens.

We installed banking machines for their pay to come out of so that their chief of police would not take his 60% cut out of their wages.

When the officer down the street on the road block asks to check my trailer and I am entitled to ask on what grounds (reason for the search) and if they respond with routine check... I respond with there is no such thing as a routine search much like there is no such thing as a routine patrol. That I've had 8 buddies of mine killed on what media labelled a routine patrol or shift.

4 LEO's and 4 infantry members.

I have all my paperwork in order, have nothing illegal in or on my person or vehicles/trailers therefore i am pretty sure in most cases that the officer is not out to so called frame me for something.


I maybe the odd retired LEO out there but i've seen bad cops and bad laws and feared for my life while doing my job.
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Old 08-28-2015, 11:11 AM   #186
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Doc, very informative posts and I appreciate you taking the time to reply back in such great length.

I will add that I have never been in trouble with the law and in the 19 years I'v been driving, I have had 1 speeding ticket (when I was 20) and zero accidents.

Even to this day though, anytime I see blue lights behind me, I still get nervous and I think that is why everyone just does whatever the officer asks rather then stand up for their rights. It's not about putting an officer in their place but rather protecting myself and not allowing an officer to overstep their boundaries which frankly I truly believe many do. That is in part because again, I think the general public is always nervous during traffic stops.. worrying about a ticket.. worrying about their insurance going up.. worrying about points on their record etc. Because of that, I believe most give up their rights unknowingly because they don't want any trouble AND/OR they are hoping they will get out of a ticket by being polite and doing what is asked of them.
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Old 08-28-2015, 11:57 AM   #187
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Doc, very informative posts and I appreciate you taking the time to reply back in such great length.

I will add that I have never been in trouble with the law and in the 19 years I'v been driving, I have had 1 speeding ticket (when I was 20) and zero accidents.

Even to this day though, anytime I see blue lights behind me, I still get nervous and I think that is why everyone just does whatever the officer asks rather then stand up for their rights. It's not about putting an officer in their place but rather protecting myself and not allowing an officer to overstep their boundaries which frankly I truly believe many do. That is in part because again, I think the general public is always nervous during traffic stops.. worrying about a ticket.. worrying about their insurance going up.. worrying about points on their record etc. Because of that, I believe most give up their rights unknowingly because they don't want any trouble AND/OR they are hoping they will get out of a ticket by being polite and doing what is asked of them.
MilCop-
The "trust" in us is very high, much higher than one would think but that does not fit the media's goals.

I have had the luxury to meet officers from all over in classes and seminars. Many are just like you and I. They are respected by the good people they protect and feared by the those who come to do harm. Around here people COME TO US for advice and help because they know they will get anything from us that we can do to make their lives better, a plummer, help with a car question, been called for many a bat in the house LOL. We have keys to their homes, they send us their alarm codes with all their medications they are on just in case... Many have my personal cell number just in case. I can not count how many times I have been "backed up" by a resident / residents while I was scuffling with someone because I work with no backup. We are there for each other no matter what. I am loved by the people in our area, my name is well know. But on the flip side I am also the butt-head (radio edit) to many others becuase, well, I have locked them up or made them stop hurting the community in some way

Yes I technically work for and represent the government. Around here we do not even think of ourselves as part of the government, we were all hired by the PEOPLE WE PROTECT and WE do not forget that. Maybe it is different in other parts of this country but around here I have been entrusted with a LOT of power by the people I serve. If I abuse that then it is their duty to TAKE it back.

You know, I GET NERVOUS when the red and blues turn on behind me... Right now the "in" thing to say is "because I do not want to get shot" but all that is was the some idiot trying to get their face on TV. I get nervous because I am worried about the fine and all that other stuff as well (And Yes I have gotten tickets since I am sure someone would go there). But the reality is I am not sure WHY I am nervous / get that sinking feeling because I did something wrong and, well, got busted... Because just like Milcop said I have plenty of better things to do than make up charges as is the cop pulling me over.. The reality is We do not like being told what to do and resent it when we are. We all speed and roll stop signs and drive how we drive. We take the gamble that the 5-0 is not around the corner or if he is he gets the guy next to you.. I call them the canaries on the road. I want to be in the middle of the pack, not the end or the front where you may get picked up. If I get caught my number came up that day, nothing more! LOL

I understand people wanting to protect their rights and all, but what exactly are you protecting when your stopped for a simple ticket and all the officer IS ACTUALLY interested in is just writing you the ticket and then going to lunch (99.999% of those stops are just this). This idea that you need to resist and fight the whole way will probably only ever do one thing, guarantee you do get a ticket on a stop instead of a warning. These youtube videos and so called protect your rights folks make money off their crap (not saying your rights are crap but their videos). They passive aggressively try to bate responses so they can through them up on YouTube, they intentionally get stopped just to see if they can bate because this gets them clicks, and more sponsors..

I would not put much faith in their tactics. What does it do for us? Gives the legislators more fodder to further take your rights. In CA you used to be able to carry a gun openly without a magazine in it. People would youtube the cops not being happy for needing to deal with these yahoos. I said on a few forums that was going to end with them loosing the right and was cursed, and eventually banned from the forum. Few weeks late, the law was changed to no longer allow the carry. Did any of that help their cause? NO?
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Old 08-28-2015, 12:44 PM   #188
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Searched before crossing dam

In Nevada we were stopped and allowed a search of our MH before crossing Hoover Dam. It was mostly a formality. They didn't really look for anything. It seemed more like a show than anything.

I understand searches when entering a sensitive area such as this dam. Otherwise, I have the right to refuse unless I give the officer reason to believe I am trying to conceal something.
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Old 08-28-2015, 01:45 PM   #189
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In Nevada we were stopped and allowed a search of our MH before crossing Hoover Dam. It was mostly a formality. They didn't really look for anything. It seemed more like a show than anything.

I understand searches when entering a sensitive area such as this dam. Otherwise, I have the right to refuse unless I give the officer reason to believe I am trying to conceal something.
Really?

Last time I crossed that dam I had a six foot chest freezer and two bicycles in the bed of the truck.

Guy walks up, looks in the bed, he ask household stuff in the freezer, yes I said then he says have a nice trip.

Drove across the bridge last year, what a view.
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Old 08-28-2015, 01:50 PM   #190
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Really?

Last time I crossed that dam I had a six foot chest freezer and two bicycles in the bed of the truck.

Guy walks up, looks in the bed, he ask household stuff in the freezer, yes I said then he says have a nice trip.

Drove across the bridge last year, what a view.
When I went over the dam the new bridge wasn't finished. We had to drive on the dam. Wish it was finished. It would have been a great view.
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