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Old 08-26-2015, 08:24 PM   #141
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No problem Doc. This type of thread is up there with religious and political threads. Lots of misunderstanding and lots of rude comments. For what end? I am not sure we learned much here today. LEO's should be respected and u certainly do. I also think that there is a tremendous amount of attitude that LEO's give off. Almost a cocky us against the world attitude. I see it often in casual friends that are LEO's. I think I understand why but I also believe it harms their reputation.



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Old 08-26-2015, 08:27 PM   #142
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Thanks for the updated information, doc. I'm not sure if it's like this in every county, but here in Luzerne, the issuing authority is the Sheriff's office. I'm thinking that I will continue to present it to them if pulled over anyway. I think it goes a long way towards putting the officer at ease, knowing that you've gone through the permitting process and the background check.

Still no-go on the search, though...
The sheriff is always the issuing authority for CCP in PA, they are the highest ranking ELECTED LEO in the county, as with the District Attorney. In PA the Sheriff, however, has been reduced to a simple servant of the court system and to handle civil issues. I think it is a disgrace but that is what the law makers do..

PA also has a preemption law that does not allow any law to restrict or supersede a state law so Luzerne County can not make their own law for example to make you inform the officer. There is a big fat asterisks though... City's of the First Class (Only Philadelphia at this point, used to include Pittsburgh) CAN make their own ordinance and law for guns as long as they follow a few rules when making them.

All that being said, I encounter legally armed persons all the time, we are pretty rural still west of where I am. I look at their info confirm they are not wanted and have a license (better if they have a CCP) thank them for being a good guy and send them off. But that is just me.
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Old 08-26-2015, 08:31 PM   #143
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No problem Doc. This type of thread is up there with religious and political threads. Lots of misunderstanding and lots of rude comments. For what end? I am not sure we learned much here today. LEO's should be respected and u certainly do. I also think that there is a tremendous amount of attitude that LEO's give off. Almost a cocky us against the world attitude. I see it often in casual friends that are LEO's. I think I understand why but I also believe it harms their reputation.
I will agree with the attitude, at times. But I think you can see just how people "feel" about "us" and with that we can all see the attitude that we get all the time from some folks. Most people do not call me to thank us for helping them. We either see them for an emergency (medical, criminal or such) or we are dealing with the 1% of the population 99% of the time who hate us (because they are criminals). The other 99% of the good people will never see us, meet us or even know who we are (unless you get nabbed on a car stop for a traffic violation). The traffic stop can go many ways and can be a whole nother can o worms!
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Old 08-26-2015, 08:36 PM   #144
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I am a Deputy in Florida I am speaking for Florida law and 4th amendment rights you do not have to let Law Enforcement search your vehicle. The exception is if the officer sees in plain view or smells something suspicious. If something in plain sight is seen you will be removed from the vehicle and search it. If he smells something he will likely have a K-9 search if the dog hits on the vehicle then he has probable cause. and can and will search it. Other than that a warrant is required. It's unlikely that will occur in an RV.


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Old 08-26-2015, 08:43 PM   #145
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I was a police officer so here goes. If we ask you, you do NOT have to let us. If we see you or a passenger trying to conceal something under the seat, etc., your vehicle WILL be searched. If we see something out in plain view in your vehicle or camper that is illegal, then it WILL be searched. If you are arrested, your vehicle and camper WILL be searched.
That's a lot of if's ex.
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Old 08-26-2015, 08:48 PM   #146
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That's a lot of if's ex.
Yeah it is...

Here, Concealing or making "furtive movements" will get the area in your control searched (area that you can reach) nothing more.

Plain view will get seized, warrant to search the rest (plain view items can be used for the PC)

If arrested we no longer have a search incident to arrest. Need to have a warrant and PC to do the whole car.

See how different it can be.. very confusing at times.
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Old 08-26-2015, 08:48 PM   #147
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in canada the cops can only hold you on the side of the road for a certain time period before they are breaking the law themselfs
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Old 08-26-2015, 08:48 PM   #148
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The only problem I've had was crossing the Ambassador Bridge into Windsor, Canada from Detroit, MI. The Canadian Border Officers had us pull over to an inspection area, and went through our truck and trailer completely, going through drawers and cabinets. They claimed they had a report of a vehicle like ours carrying guns. I did not have any guns. I had a CCW, Shelby County, TN Sheriff's Deputy ID & Badge, but it didn't make any difference. I knew Canada's rules, growing up in Michigan, so I didn't bring any firearms. They even went through my wife's, daughter's and her friend's purses. The only thing they found was some pepper spray in one of the purses, which they took.

We had planned to camp in Canada, they have some really nice campgrounds, but when we had this experience, we turned around and camped in Michigan. We had done this many times in the past, camp in Canada spend time there plus visit with family & friends in Michigan.

The only suggestion I have is be careful if your plan to go out of the US.
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Old 08-26-2015, 08:54 PM   #149
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The only problem I've had was crossing the Ambassador Bridge into Windsor, Canada from Detroit, MI. The Canadian Border Officers had us pull over to an inspection area, and went through our truck and trailer completely, going through drawers and cabinets. They claimed they had a report of a vehicle like ours carrying guns. I did not have any guns. I had a CCW, Shelby County, TN Sheriff's Deputy ID & Badge, but it didn't make any difference. I knew Canada's rules, growing up in Michigan, so I didn't bring any firearms. They even went through my wife's, daughter's and her friend's purses. The only thing they found was some pepper spray in one of the purses, which they took.

We had planned to camp in Canada, they have some really nice campgrounds, but when we had this experience, we turned around and camped in Michigan. We had done this many times in the past, camp in Canada spend time there plus visit with family & friends in Michigan.

The only suggestion I have is be careful if your plan to go out of the US.
Made me laugh (not at you) but about 15 years ago, before the border closed to needing a passport my girlfriend (now wife) and I had our popup pulled by my 1999 TJ Jeep. We were staying in Erie, a few hours from Niagara Falls. Girlfriend had never been there so we made a road trip (8 or so hours from our home base). We came to the border at Niagra Falls (Rainbow Bridge maybe????) and the Canadian border officer gets our papers. He asked where we were from. We told him PA he asked how long we would be in Canada. Not thinking I say just a few hours... LOL

His face is like and wants to know where all our stuff is and why we would be coming from 8hrs away for a few hours!! LOL They let us in and I was SHOCKED we did not get the rubber glove..
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:00 PM   #150
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I'm not hiding anything, so what makes the difference? Why antagonize them? Let 'em search and go on your way.

I would like to know where everyone gets their law degree at....
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:04 PM   #151
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I would like to know where everyone gets their law degree at....
I received mine from threads like this and youtube! Also earned a doctorate in Google-foo while at it. LOL
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:12 PM   #152
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Yeah it is...

Here, Concealing or making "furtive movements" will get the area in your control searched (area that you can reach) nothing more.

Plain view will get seized, warrant to search the rest (plain view items can be used for the PC)

If arrested we no longer have a search incident to arrest. Need to have a warrant and PC to do the whole car.

See how different it can be.. very confusing at times.
And how many people traveling in their RV have been in this "if" situation? Not nick picking but we are talking about RV travelers not slammed 95 Impalas with limo tint.
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:17 PM   #153
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And how many people traveling in their RV have been in this "if" situation? Not nick picking but we are talking about RV travelers not slammed 95 Impalas with limo tint.
None that I have had or seen.. I saw your quote (missed the quoted post) and was simply saying how different things can be from one state to another. Left coast to Right coast... RV are not what we look for generally. Unless it is OC because I want to shake that man's hand...

EDIT: secret hint... That is not the cars running drugs anymore, mostly rentals now. Guess they got tired of mom's Buick being seized! LOL

Howie- I though the same thing.... Hopefully a misquote.
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:22 PM   #154
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This is a long thread. I am not hiding anything so therefore they can look. The police, government, wife, drug testers, etc have a boring job checking what I have done.

On that note...I don't want to be a cop, soldier, fireman, emt etc... They risk their lives every day for us. Not to mention...the THUGS they have to deal with. Dope heads, crooks, child molesters etc. Can you imagine going into a house where a man/person has abused a family member. They might fall A LOT!!!


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Old 08-26-2015, 09:24 PM   #155
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I am retired LEO that got my 25+ years in and then got out.....from the looks of things happening now, it was just in time. That being said, unless some very unusual circumstances were to happen, they will have to seek a warrant to search my vehicle or my RV.

I do succumb to searches of my person and my personal belongings when entering certain buildings, flying or I guess in the near future, trains.

I do know my rights and I choose to exercise them as much as I possibly can.

That's just my $.02 worth.
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:25 PM   #156
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None that I have had or seen.. I saw your quote (missed the quoted post) and was simply saying how different things can be from one state to another. Left coast to Right coast... RV are not what we look for generally. Unless it is OC because I want to shake that man's hand...

EDIT: secret hint... That is not the cars running drugs anymore, mostly rentals now. Guess they got tired of mom's Buick being seized! LOL

Howie- I though the same thing.... Hopefully a misquote.
Understand the bland rentals the Impala was just something other than a family in a RV.Thanks for your service.
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:28 PM   #157
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FYI 100 miles from border. The Gulf Coast or east and west coast is a international border and the border patrol can come 100 miles inland form coast. That is a lot of area they can cover.
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:32 PM   #158
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This is a long thread. I am not hiding anything so therefore they can look. The police, government, wife, drug testers, etc have a boring job checking what I have done.

On that note...I don't want to be a cop, soldier, fireman, emt etc... They risk their lives every day for us. Not to mention...the THUGS they have to deal with. Dope heads, crooks, child molesters etc. Can you imagine going into a house where a man/person has abused a family member. They might fall A LOT!!!


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That is what I try to tell people when they say the cops have a bad attitude.. Not saying it is OK or condoning, but I try not to criticize until I've walked a mile in their shoes.. (except fireman.. people like fireman, saving cat's in trees and all!)

I've had a pretty tame career so far... Been shot at three times, two murders, numerous rapes, robberies, assaults, several guns pulled on me.

Child abuse of children by friends, family and other children (worst was a 9 year old brother raped his 4 year old sister, he was a serial killer in the making IMO). Been stabbed (luckily in the vest but they do not stop knives, got some bandaids for that one) Numerous deaths of all ages in crasses. Broken fingers, concutions from a bottle over the head.. Tasered by MY PARTNER!!

Not to mention just to dealing with people who always seem to be a hatin' on me. I know it changes one's attitude and outlook of life. I think of myself as a very easy going and happy person, but I will tell you I DO NOT see things the same as a none LEO. Again, not making an excuse it is just my humble experience.

Should have stayed a fireman... Sleep all night, spend the day polishing the truck.. Get an alarm and clear the station just to show off my polishing skills! LOL I am J/K

EDIT: Do not say the above to brag, I am by no means great in my career, just making the point that all that goes on is not sugar coated and sprinkled...
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:34 PM   #159
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FYI 100 miles from border. The Gulf Coast or east and west coast is a international border and the border patrol can come 100 miles inland form coast. That is a lot of area they can cover.
I always found that mind blowing with these inland check points... But I did love watching Border Wars, I'll admit it!
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:38 PM   #160
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I am a Deputy in Florida I am speaking for Florida law and 4th amendment rights you do not have to let Law Enforcement search your vehicle. The exception is if the officer sees in plain view or smells something suspicious. If something in plain sight is seen you will be removed from the vehicle and search it. If he smells something he will likely have a K-9 search if the dog hits on the vehicle then he has probable cause. and can and will search it. Other than that a warrant is required. It's unlikely that will occur in an RV.


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EXCELLENT and this is how it is supposed to be......Thanks and be safe.
Now this thread needs to be put in the archives...
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