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Old 01-19-2015, 05:12 PM   #41
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I stand by my original post. There is no excuse for poor workmanship. Geotex1, I also worked for the auto industry Ford Motor Company. 31 years. You are dead wrong at least about MANAGENENT and its responsibility for quality.
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Old 01-20-2015, 06:40 AM   #42
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it shouldn't cost any more to build it right. Screws and staples in right places. Doors and drawers line up, wiring and plumbing correct, etc. Look at all the money they would save themselves in warranty repairs.
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Old 01-20-2015, 09:07 AM   #43
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All these posts and i only know of one or two people that have or are currently talking to forest river managment about some of the things mentioned, and how to make it better for the customer.
Ependydad is working with some of the lines of FR with the management about how to make this better.
We can rant and rave on here all we want, but unless you work with the manuf. directly or calmly talk/work with them about handling this better, your wasting your time.
All this bashing may make you feel better, but it isn't going to solve a thing!
What do you suggest we do? Should we call Forest River and suggest we come there in person to work with them? You suggest that unless we work with the manufacturers DIRECTLY we are wasting our time. Ok I'm willing to do that. Can you give me some direction on how to accomplish this? Maybe we can hook up with Ependydad and work with FR management. I'm more than willing and capable.
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:14 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeChuck View Post
What do you suggest we do? Should we call Forest River and suggest we come there in person to work with them? You suggest that unless we work with the manufacturers DIRECTLY we are wasting our time. Ok I'm willing to do that. Can you give me some direction on how to accomplish this? Maybe we can hook up with Ependydad and work with FR management. I'm more than willing and capable.

I'm not looking for a crusade. I have enough on my plate.

But, given my working relationship with Sabre- I can honestly say, they've taken some of my suggestions on how the warranty process can get better. Given what I have seen here, things have gotten better - still not perfect, but better.
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:52 AM   #45
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Ependydad, I'm glad that Sabre is getting better. I have no complaints about their warranty process and never have. If you have been instrumental in improving this we all owe you a big thank you.
I was not "ranting, raving or bashing". I was just stating my opinion, and as it appears that of others also, about the lack of workmanship seen in many RVs coming out of the factories these days. I put that on management for not INSISTING on good workmanship. It is the responsibility of those in charge to give the assemblers and others the proper training and equipment to do the job right the first time and to help them to achieve that goal.The workers want to do a good job but if they see an emphasis on quantity not quality which I fear is happening in the RV industry today they will react accordingly. Just sayn'.
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Old 01-20-2015, 11:19 AM   #46
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The DW and I were considering trailer vs Class C before we opted for our 3011 Forester. I am happy with my choice but I made it with the understanding that the materials inside the rig had to be lighter weight and still cost effective. That is a tough combination to meet especially when many of the changes that might help with quality won't be readily seen on the new sales lot. My dogs and kids are hard on things and I know that over time I'll end up swapping out interior parts and I'm fine with that.

These cost about twice as much for half as much trailer.

Camplite Ultra Lightweight All Aluminum Travel Trailers | Livin' Lite RV
Camplite Ultra Lightweight All Aluminum Travel Trailer Floorplans | Livin' Lite RV


But they're all aluminum, half ton towable and built like tanks. So now the hard question. Are you willing to shell out 50K for a trailer with only one slide out and limited floor space? Probably not...

FYI if I wanted a class C with the same level of quality I would be looking at something like this:

2015 Born Free Majestic RV for sale in Tampa, FL. Stock# 1019045

At twice the price it was tough to justify at this time. Now later on when the wife and I full time then maybe the numbers will shift more in the favor of a custom build. I am not defending shoddy work per se. My point being that if you want a house on wheels that holds up to the over the road vibrations the same as or better than your stationary house then you will need to make some serious compromises either in $$$, size of the rig, options on the rig or a combination of the above. if you aren't willing to make those compromises then brush up on your DIY skills and expect some repairs.
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Old 01-20-2015, 02:46 PM   #47
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Buckey it is good that you stand by your comment, and I think that most people will stand by talk as well. What they will not do is put their money where their mouth is and buy quality.

Disagree with anyone who states quality should not cost more. Maybe in a perfect robotic level six sigma factory with ISO 9001 standard, but they had a recovery cost. Manufactures who still use humans are going to have errors, the faster you push them to roll out 5 a day instead of 4 you will drive human error based on process capability. Lose 365 new RVs to production In order relign your process, implement robotics to achieve process capability, they both will increase your base price out the door. Either would cause their current $60 a share stocks to drop very quickly unless the money from reduced production could be made up. People will buy the Thor product at the next dealer for 1000 less with the same plan. Heck people will do 5000 mile round trips to not buy from a quality dealer lol and get a better price.

Personally, I highly doubt if these factories are not already running some type of quality driven process. If their failure rate is above 5% I would be surprised which would be the reason why they are not fine tooth combing every RV out the door, it is cheaper to fix them later.
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:26 PM   #48
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Thought so.
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Old 01-20-2015, 04:05 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeChuck View Post
I stand by my original post. There is no excuse for poor workmanship. Geotex1, I also worked for the auto industry Ford Motor Company. 31 years. You are dead wrong at least about MANAGENENT and its responsibility for quality.
You're right - there is no excuse for poor workmanship, but I would totally agree with Geotex's comments. Building RV's has very little in common with the auto industry. We toured Ford's Dearborn F-150 plant 2 years ago - they make a $40,000 truck every 60 seconds - and every single process is standardized, error proofed, and engineered to be reliable. That cost of quality is spread over hundreds of thousands of vehicles.

An RV plant is making a tiny fraction of that volume. Processes and materials are not standardized to that extent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by davel1971 View Post
it shouldn't cost any more to build it right. Screws and staples in right places. Doors and drawers line up, wiring and plumbing correct, etc. Look at all the money they would save themselves in warranty repairs.
It doesn't cost more to get staples or screws in the right spots - but when you have a bunch of tasks to do and limited time, errors happen. I doubt workers make those mistakes 100% of the time - the issues are more likely inconsistency. They get most of them right, but have a certain amount defects. Now - how they get out of the factory is a real issue, but using automotive-type quality techniques - like cnc saws to cut trim with laser inspection - isn't going to happen in an RV plant because of cost.

That's what it boils down to - as was said earlier - buyers talk a lot about quality - but most buyers actions' show that price is king.

In the entry level and mid-level travel trailer market - is there even one single brand that has hung their hat on quality and zero defects? Is there a brand that says "yeah, we cost 10% more, but our build quality is the best out there?"

Given that companies like FR and Thor have dozens of brands, says a lot that they don't have a single offering using that type of strategy.
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Old 01-20-2015, 04:42 PM   #50
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KMP44 I understand that. I worked for Ford Motor Co. for 31 years. I was just using that as a statement about quality not a comparison of the two industries. I was a supervisor in Quality Control and also manufacturing. I worked on the floor with the very people who make the Ford workforce. They are hard workers with a strong attitude about quality. As part of the management team it was an integral part of my job to nurture and encourage that attitude. Please don't attempt to lecture me about Fords quality or process control after taking one tour of a Ford plant.
This post is getting out of hand. I had no desire for that to happen. I was just stating my opinion. And that has not nor will it change. I would be happy if someone in F.R. management would read this and other post. Maybe they do.
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