MY thoughts on quality and MANAGEMENT.

[BuckeyeChuck]

From what I have read here and in other forums workmanship seems to be a major problem with many RVs. Not only Columbus but almost all brands. I put that on management. You can not inspect quality into a RV. You can not expect a dealer to finish work that should have done correctly at the factory in the first place. 0 defects should be the MAIN OBJECTIVE by management before a unit leaves the factory. Out of all the issues I had with our new Sabre none were with components all were workmanship. Stripped screws, missing parts, parts installed incorrectly, backwards ect. I can go on and on. A Dometic stove doesn't know if it's going into a $10,000 RV or a $100,000 RV. American car companies were building junk back to in the 60s. Because of competition from the Japanese automakers they were forced to change their procedures and their QUALITY of workmanship. Until management insists on quality workmanship it will never happen. The people on the line will do whats expected of them and not much more. MANAGEMENT has to stress good workmanship ( Good enough.....is NEVER good enough) or it ain't gonna happen. My opinion.

[4mula1fan]

Numbers rule the business world now. Quality has taken a back seat to the numbers. Numbers SUCK!!!!!

[Flybob]

Until manufacturers loose business to a quality competitor ( either domestic or foreign) I do not expect much change. The auto industry only changed because they were forced to in order to stay in business. Those that didn't change are gone. It has to be less expensive to do it right the first time than to pay to have it repaired under warranty later.

[Wiscampsin]

Sadly, output takes precedence over quality construction. IMHO that's true in almost every manufactured product today.

[BuckeyeChuck]

I would tour the Sabre factory and see for myselfe how they work. I worked in Q.C. at Ford and saw the change take place first hand.

[Platokidd]

Then I read this in RVBussiness news
Page 73.

Think they could invest a little in qc

[Nastyfoot]

I bought a Sabre TBOK new in '13. I like to call it the "Monday Morning Build". Terrible "craftsmanship. But hey, that's what happens when you pay laborers $16-$17 an hour. There is obviously no ISO standards in these builds. I had a nylon slide bearing tear away the 1st year and permanently ruin the bunkhouse floor. This year the same issue in the main room. It has been at the dealer since October because the entire main slide needs to come out. So again, laborers who are unqualified and don't give a crap except collecting a paycheck.

No American pride. We will all be in chinese RV's soon enough

[DnJ]

Our first RV was a pickup camper in 1968. We have had 10 RVs since then, and over the years I have realized that these things are just expensive toys. Remember when as a kid you got your favorite toy on Christmas morning, and by New Year's Day it was broken. It's the same principle. Of the 10 RVs we've had, an Aljo 5th wheel was the highest quality construction and most trouble free. We went from the Aljo to a Jayco class C. It was a toy. An example of the workmanship was a panel under the refrigerator that was hidden from view. In order for a water line to pass through the panel, some genius had just bashed a hole through the panel with a large hammer. That really said it all for Jayco's quality of construction. We now have 2011 FR Surveyor, and it has been nearly as trouble free as the Aljo. A similar panel on the Surveyor has neat hole cut with a hole saw, and the water line and electrical line secured so they don't rub on the edge of the panel. Anyway, more consumer reports and comments may help to improve overall quality in RV industry.

[Flybob]

Pretty much says it all. Why would you change anything?

[mattb]

And lets not forget the poor owner of FR. Warren who?

© Forest River, Inc., a Berkshire Hathaway Company | 2014 | All Rights Reserved

[MillerTime]

While i have issues with my camper too, i fail to see where a Chinese or Japanese maker would do any better.
I work for a huge auto group that sells every thing from Fords and Kias to Maserati and Porsche. The Koreans are making huge strides in quality and fit and finish and some American brands too, while some of the Japanese are getting awful, but people still think they have quality. Unbeknownst to them, their cars are rusting away, and sub par parts and finishes are being use......and when they get caught and fined by the US government for withhold recalls, they just pay and move on.

I find that even when i try really hard to do the best job possible for a customer and yes, i really care about my work quality, sometimes there are comebacks. While it may not be necessarily my fault, it could be a new part failure, a hidden problem that wasn't noticed or wasn't problematic at the time, or anything.... I WILL and my company WILL do all we can to make the problem right for our customer.

My belief is Forest River and probably most manuf. are trying to do the best they can about making things right too. But in the litigious and scandalous society we live in, there are rightfully some steps that u will need to go thru to get your problems solved to safeguard the losses to the company.
This i believe is how it really works! A company can't make it very long if its only goal is to screw people.

Happy camping!

[Cajun Po-Boy]

Originally Posted by Platokidd

Then I read this in RVBussiness news
Page 73.

Think they could invest a little in qc

X2...when you read the article the CEO is so tickled with their growth & income...

[Tiggerdad]

The CEO should take his own advice and spend a little time in the factory and see how his product thrown together. He state clearly that they are making a lot of money. Some of that money should be used for repairs BEFORE shipping.

[SKnight]

Here's my thoughts based on my current situation.

I've not had serious issues with my 5er, but the issues I've had getting them fixed show problems from the bottom up.

My dealer took weeks to even look at it, then gave me lame excuses such as it hasn't rained so we can't check your water leak complaint. Offering to buy them a garden hose with spray attachment embarrassed them.

Then, it took months to get a rear window. Now, this is no custom window. It's the same window that's being installed in units every day, they couldn't pull one out of assembly line stock?

Just examples, so we have issues with the dealer, the dealer had issues getting parts. I'm stuck in the middle.

I'm going to take pictures Monday of shoddy repairs and could not duplicate despite visual evidence problems and I'm penning an email to Sierra sales and service managers listed on their website. I'm going to do my due diligence before I get very vocal.

It's irritating to say the least. I've got a dealer that doesn't care and a manufacturer that apparently doesn't care about giving that dealer the parts they need for a timely repair.

Sadly, I'm afraid I'm about to enter a fairly serious battle.

[Richard D]

Since we purchased our 2014 Berkshire (July 2013), after every campout, we had to take the rig in for some kind of issue to be fixed. I can only think that quality control is left to the customer. The dealer was fantastic with fixing all the issues but again, most if not all of them should have never happened to us, the customer but been caught at the factory.

[fx2]

Originally Posted by 4mula1fan

Numbers rule the business world now. Quality has taken a back seat to the numbers. Numbers SUCK!!!!!

In my business the two go hand in hand. I've found that in every business I've ever dealt with that good quality on the front side is always cheaper in the long run


Sent from my iPhone using Forest River Forums

[KQ2N]

My 2013 Sunseeker just got back from being repaired at the dealer. My major issue was that the rear window leaked causing delamination of the interior wall. Although out of warranty, FR did repair the unit gratis. The leak was evidently caused by sloppy installation at the time of manufacture. The problem could have been alleviated altogether with more time taken at the time of manufacture to do the job right. I have to give credit to my dealer, Wilkins, in Rochester, NY for going to bat for me for that issue and a couple other minor ones, again covered, although out of warranty.

[SkipnTerri]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeChuck

From what I have read here and in other forums workmanship seems to be a major problem with many RVs. Not only Columbus but almost all brands. I put that on management. You can not inspect quality into a RV. You can not expect a dealer to finish work that should have done correctly at the factory in the first place. 0 defects should be the MAIN OBJECTIVE by management before a unit leaves the factory. Out of all the issues I had with our new Sabre none were with components all were workmanship. Stripped screws, missing parts, parts installed incorrectly, backwards ect. I can go on and on. A Dometic stove doesn't know if it's going into a $10,000 RV or a $100,000 RV. American car companies were building junk back to in the 60s. Because of competition from the Japanese automakers they were forced to change their procedures and their QUALITY of workmanship. Until management insists on quality workmanship it will never happen. The people on the line will do whats expected of them and not much more. MANAGEMENT has to stress good workmanship ( Good enough.....is NEVER good enough) or it ain't gonna happen. My opinion.

SPOT ON!!! What will it take to get this point to line supervisors and QC? If you can't get it done right the first time, when are you going to get it done right?

[SkipnTerri]

One more thought . . . I can buy a $12,000 car and get a 3 yr/36,000 mile warranty or I can buy a $40,000 vehicle and get a 5 yr/50,000 mile warranty. However, if I buy a $100,000, $300,000 $400,000 RV, I still get a one year warranty. Says a lot for the quality and assembly line, doesn't it??!!??

[gfarmcafe]

We're at the point where we'll camp another season in our 2015 FR TT, and then I'm thinking seriously about looking at those vintage trailers that have been professionally rehab'd. They may cost more initially, but they have a lot of appeal and seem to have quality, modern materials and pride of workmanship. Who can forget those Shasta wings and wide whitewalls? Plus, we have a 21 year old pulling monster of a Suburban that I wouldn't trade for anything!