New Campground?

[Zak1]

Hello all my FR friends,

I am seriously considering building a new private campground near me in Central, Ohio/Delaware County. I have an option on 30 acres, partially wooded.
I am at a point in my life where I'm tired of flying all over the world for work and I think I would love doing this. My question(s) is this;

Has anyone on this forum owned, worked or know someone who has owned one and what their experience is/was?

How many spots would be comfortable
I really would want to know what would bring you to it in the first place and more importantly, what would bring you back?
My family loves Anchor Down in Tennessee and would use hat as an eventual model.

I really want to start a new chapter in my life and I love the RV life..

[B and B]

Workcampers are great resource to staff the park! They could also form part of the design process, what better way to find what works at other parks.
I would focus on big rig friendly. Cement pads are nice but freeze/thaw in Ohio they may shift in the first few years as soil settle. Good clean gravel /crush granite would be my choice. Make sure your facilities meet people needs with adequate stool rooms and showers that solid concrete, no wall board or blocks.

Make sure rules are adhered too about pets, alcohol or drug use and weapons.

No permanent seasonal trailers! They all leave and go home!

Good luck on your dream!!!

[Zak1]

Originally Posted by B and B

Workcampers are great resource to staff the park! They could also form part of the design process, what better way to find what works at other parks.
I would focus on big rig friendly. Cement pads are nice but freeze/thaw in Ohio they may shift in the first few years as soil settle. Good clean gravel /crush granite would be my choice. Make sure your facilities meet people needs with adequate stool rooms and showers that solid concrete, no wall board or blocks.

Make sure rules are adhered too about pets, alcohol or drug use and weapons.

No permanent seasonal trailers! They all leave and go home!

Good luck on your dream!!!

Thank You for the input! I forgot to mention that I was thinking NO seasonal sites...Thanks again

[Reverse_snowbird]

I'd suggest that you find a couple of private campground owners and talk to them. We've talked to owners who love it and those who can't wait to sell and do something else.

[Zak1]

Originally Posted by Reverse_snowbird

I'd suggest that you find a couple of private campground owners and talk to them. We've talked to owners who love it and those who can't wait to sell and do something else.

Great point!
Thanks

[Paulie1138]

Hopefully, not near the whistle stop by the railroad tracks! Nor too close to the freeway.... Good luck on your venture. Post up on here when you get it going, we will come if in the area!

[Zak1]

Originally Posted by Paulie1138

Hopefully, not near the whistle stop by the railroad tracks! Nor too close to the freeway.... Good luck on your venture. Post up on here when you get it going, we will come if in the area!

Awe, Thanks for the encouragement....
Its not close to either. Very quiet and somewhat secluded...

[BuzzWolfAR]

Road/site design is important. I'd try for all drive through sites. Easy for novices and older veterans. Is just a matter of design, doesn't really take much more space.

[Blackrock]

Make sure to have nice open lanes and plenty of pull throughs, back ins on the perimeter. Tent sites and mini rv sites close to the bathrooms and showers. A nice long dog walk for long walks and a fenced dog park. My pups like a long walk to stimulate their BM's after a long day cooped up.

[TeachTexas]

Investigate what it will take to bring utilities to the area. Electric may be the most expensive. Is water available? Well or City? Phone service; are land lines available or will it be cell? Know the laws or ordinances in your area for land use and need for permitting.

[Hutch333id]

Hi Zak,

A similar question was posed on another RV site I frequent so rather than re-invent the wheel I copied and pasted some considerations that were posted by another member and myself. As for the number of sites you could have on 30 acres, that will largely depend on your initial budget for developing the location. From my own experience, I stayed at a wonderful place in Ontario this year that had 40 acres and perhaps 25 - 30 sites. This gave a great deal of open space and did not feel at all congested. However, there is enormous potential to create more sites and generate a larger income should that be the desire in the future.

Anyway, here is what I lifted;
1. Provide good signage and easy entrance/exit from your park for all sizes of RVs. Within the park have roadways and site entrances easy to navigate and get into, etc.
2. Have enough space between sites so each RV is able to open slide outs on both sides of their RV. A maintained grassy area alongside each cement patio is nice also
3. Whatever you choose to have as site pads, concrete, asphalt or gravel, have them LEVEL. Nobody likes to use leveling blocks under their jacks or front tires to get leveled.
4. Provide a picnic type table and chairs for each site
5. If you are offering wifi, have it installed with a strong enough signal to reach all sites and not just to a few areas within the park. This is a big thing for a large percentage of RVers
6. Many RVers have pets, dogs mostly. Have a fenced area set aside for them to be off leash and provide "poopy bags"
7. Provide clean and "usable" restroom and shower facilities. It's always nice to have individual private shower areas complete with a bench and a place to hang clothes and towels, etc. Heated and cooled facilities are nice also
8. Power pedestals/Water Spigots/Sewer - Most RVs have their power and water hookups on the driver's side but at varying locations on the RV depending on type and style, etc. We have found that most parks install the hookup pedestal about 2/3rds of the way back from the front of the site. Most RVers carry hookup cords and water hoses that will reach at least 10 t0 15 feet and more so locating them at that approximate spacing should not present a problem for most RVers. Might be a good idea in that you are starting from scratch to install two sewer connections at each site with one towards the rear, the other further forward
9. Trees - Many RVs have satellite dishes. Trees block signals but also provide shade so you may want to have some sites with larger shade trees and some with shorter shade trees that don't rise up over the RV and block the signals from Dish or Direct providers. Find out where in the sky both companies have their satellites located and don't block them with trees.
10. Depending on your location a small onsite store with basic necessities, that RVers seem to be out of as soon as they get hooked up, would be appreciated by most. Smaller 5 lb bags of ice is a convenience also to those that don't have onboard ice makers but that don't have freezer space to hold a 20 lb bag.



Some interesting items here. For me, in addition to what has already been discussed;
* angle the sites from the drive road. It makes reversing in so much easier than narrow roads that are at 90 degrees to the site. Equally, pull-through sites - make them angled.
* On the power post make sure there are breakers for each of the power settings you are offering - I've been to several cg's where the breaker is nowhere near the post.
* Make sure the posts are wired correctly - sounds simple but it could ruin an expensive rig if there is a bad connection or just as equally, low voltage.
* Located in Ohio - and I’ve never been there but understand severe, sudden storms can flare up - consider making your bathrooms storm shelters. It gave me peace of mind at a cg in SD.
* Offer recycling for cardboard, plastics, glass, cans, etc.
* Find out what cell services work well in your area. I know these are not in your direct control but I read a lot of reviews where the cg is criticized for poor cell service - perhaps try and encourage the providers to boost their signals.
* Keep your website up-to-date and show honest photos. If you can, show photos of each site so that people from far away (like me) can see what they are getting into before they make a booking.
* Make sure your cancellation policy is very clear. Again, reading on this site there are many complaints about this aspect. When you look at the cg website it isn't always easy to find the cancellation policy.
* A fire pit doesn't interest my wife or I but to some it is an essential. If you decide to install these, make sure you have the space to allow them to function safely.
* Let guests know if you have high (or low) water pressure.
* Let potential guest know if they can have packages delivered before their arrival date - helpful for people like me who order while in the US.
Best wishes for your venture. Hopefully, one day we may get the opportunity to pay you a visit.

[Beachbourbon]

Most replies imply this will be an RV Park that might have some tent sites. If you are looking for an RV Park, I agree with all the other posters. However, I will add: determine if you are catering to families or retired couples. Many places I look at look like a wannabe Disney land, and that is not what I’m looking for. I prefer peace and quiet to not stop screaming kids. Unfortunately, it is not always clear what type of campground it is online.

If you are looking for an actual campground, then you need large private sites with lots of trees, foliage and tent camping areas. Always keep the tent campers and RV campers separated-they are not compatible. Campers have to feel like they are getting away from it all. Give them hiking trails and fishing spots, etc... I’m shocked how many RV parks and campgrounds are nothing more than parking lots, and I avoid these. I camp to get away, and don’t even want to see or hear any neighbors. Why would I want neighbors closer and more intrusive camping than I have on the street where I live? Peace, quiet, nature, beauty and a great memory -that’s what I want in a campground.

[dave-g]

So Parks I love-
Anchor down-
Lake George Rv park
Normandy Farms

I have talked to the owners at Anchor down and Normandy, and I would bet if you called them mid week for advise- they would talk to you.

In pigeon forge you can rent a site on the strip for $40 a night, Anchor down-$69 per site and the 2019 summer is 1/2 booked. If you build a premium place you can charge a premium for it. The rv industry is building 350,000 new rv's a year- more campgrounds are needed.

Now location- figure up your cost to build- figure 50% rental average- and see it that will cover your cost- with a nice salary for you.
One of the problems with Ohio- is it will have a 3 month very busy season and 3-4 months of not so busy- and closed for 4-5 months. So you need to divide your annual cost by 6 month. This will help determine how many sites you need to cover cost.

Best of luck!

[JohnD10]

I know that a lot of people whine about road noise and train tracks...but if you get too far off of the beaten path you may loose lots of business!

In other words...you need to be somewhat visible to travelers!

Personally, I love the highway buzz and the trains really don't bother me (the double main line between Detroit and Chicago was 50 feet from the side door of the house I grew up in)...

What does get to me is the garbage trucks with their backup beepers going off in and around an RV park at 5 am (much more common than many realize)!

Unless your plans are to create a destination park, a big portion of your business will most likely come from people traveling that will call ahead from the road looking for a place to stay for the night and not from reservations six months out.

Not all RV'ers want to drive 50 miles into the boonies searching for a place to stay for one, two, three or more nights, but prefer to find a spot somewhat close to civilization and EZ ON/EZ OFF (anyone remember that?).

As for fire pits...a lot of RV'ers are switching to propane fire pits since transporting wood is becoming a nightmare with all of the beetle infestation around the country, not too mention the wildfire danger (yes, even in Ohio).

And me personally, I carried around the same firewood for five years in the back of my truck and recently gave it away as I just wasn't using it anymore.

For many reasons...like fire pits two feet from the RV's awning...smoke filling up my RV and making all of my clothes and RV furniture stink...and smelly burning wood has been becoming quite common these days as well...not too mention that fire pits might be an insurance hassle for you!

Anywayz...some random thoughts from a fellow RV'er of over 40 years!

Maybe more later!

[rp53]

My DW and i have thought of building a Campground, there are several CG's within 100 mile radius of our house and they are pretty much full from March till October so there is a need for more. If i were building one i would make sure all sites were level, the elc. and water hookups were located conveniently and if the funds were available for sewer it would be located away from the other hookups. and last but not least plenty of SHADE. I hope you have a lot of $ saved for the project because your gonna need it. The infrastructure cost is huge. have a friend who is in the excavating business, he charges $250.00 per hour for each piece of equipment. for a comparison there is a small CG for sale in my area (E. TN.) has 40 sites all have elc. and water 30 are full hookup. It is on the river and has plenty of shade. and is in pretty good shape but does need some work. asking price is 1.2 million. that means at $35.00 per night if every site was taken during the camping season (march to october) you would bring in $333,200.00 before taxes and expenses. not alot of revenue

[Zak1]

Originally Posted by Hutch333id

Hi Zak,

A similar question was posed on another RV site I frequent so rather than re-invent the wheel I copied and pasted some considerations that were posted by another member and myself. As for the number of sites you could have on 30 acres, that will largely depend on your initial budget for developing the location. From my own experience, I stayed at a wonderful place in Ontario this year that had 40 acres and perhaps 25 - 30 sites. This gave a great deal of open space and did not feel at all congested. However, there is enormous potential to create more sites and generate a larger income should that be the desire in the future.

Anyway, here is what I lifted;
1. Provide good signage and easy entrance/exit from your park for all sizes of RVs. Within the park have roadways and site entrances easy to navigate and get into, etc.
2. Have enough space between sites so each RV is able to open slide outs on both sides of their RV. A maintained grassy area alongside each cement patio is nice also
3. Whatever you choose to have as site pads, concrete, asphalt or gravel, have them LEVEL. Nobody likes to use leveling blocks under their jacks or front tires to get leveled.
4. Provide a picnic type table and chairs for each site
5. If you are offering wifi, have it installed with a strong enough signal to reach all sites and not just to a few areas within the park. This is a big thing for a large percentage of RVers
6. Many RVers have pets, dogs mostly. Have a fenced area set aside for them to be off leash and provide "poopy bags"
7. Provide clean and "usable" restroom and shower facilities. It's always nice to have individual private shower areas complete with a bench and a place to hang clothes and towels, etc. Heated and cooled facilities are nice also
8. Power pedestals/Water Spigots/Sewer - Most RVs have their power and water hookups on the driver's side but at varying locations on the RV depending on type and style, etc. We have found that most parks install the hookup pedestal about 2/3rds of the way back from the front of the site. Most RVers carry hookup cords and water hoses that will reach at least 10 t0 15 feet and more so locating them at that approximate spacing should not present a problem for most RVers. Might be a good idea in that you are starting from scratch to install two sewer connections at each site with one towards the rear, the other further forward
9. Trees - Many RVs have satellite dishes. Trees block signals but also provide shade so you may want to have some sites with larger shade trees and some with shorter shade trees that don't rise up over the RV and block the signals from Dish or Direct providers. Find out where in the sky both companies have their satellites located and don't block them with trees.
10. Depending on your location a small onsite store with basic necessities, that RVers seem to be out of as soon as they get hooked up, would be appreciated by most. Smaller 5 lb bags of ice is a convenience also to those that don't have onboard ice makers but that don't have freezer space to hold a 20 lb bag.



Some interesting items here. For me, in addition to what has already been discussed;
* angle the sites from the drive road. It makes reversing in so much easier than narrow roads that are at 90 degrees to the site. Equally, pull-through sites - make them angled.
* On the power post make sure there are breakers for each of the power settings you are offering - I've been to several cg's where the breaker is nowhere near the post.
* Make sure the posts are wired correctly - sounds simple but it could ruin an expensive rig if there is a bad connection or just as equally, low voltage.
* Located in Ohio - and I’ve never been there but understand severe, sudden storms can flare up - consider making your bathrooms storm shelters. It gave me peace of mind at a cg in SD.
* Offer recycling for cardboard, plastics, glass, cans, etc.
* Find out what cell services work well in your area. I know these are not in your direct control but I read a lot of reviews where the cg is criticized for poor cell service - perhaps try and encourage the providers to boost their signals.
* Keep your website up-to-date and show honest photos. If you can, show photos of each site so that people from far away (like me) can see what they are getting into before they make a booking.
* Make sure your cancellation policy is very clear. Again, reading on this site there are many complaints about this aspect. When you look at the cg website it isn't always easy to find the cancellation policy.
* A fire pit doesn't interest my wife or I but to some it is an essential. If you decide to install these, make sure you have the space to allow them to function safely.
* Let guests know if you have high (or low) water pressure.
* Let potential guest know if they can have packages delivered before their arrival date - helpful for people like me who order while in the US.
Best wishes for your venture. Hopefully, one day we may get the opportunity to pay you a visit.

Wow!
This is a great list of considerations.
Thanks so much for the input!

[Zak1]

Originally Posted by dave-g

So Parks I love-
Anchor down-
Lake George Rv park
Normandy Farms

I have talked to the owners at Anchor down and Normandy, and I would bet if you called them mid week for advise- they would talk to you.

In pigeon forge you can rent a site on the strip for $40 a night, Anchor down-$69 per site and the 2019 summer is 1/2 booked. If you build a premium place you can charge a premium for it. The rv industry is building 350,000 new rv's a year- more campgrounds are needed.

Now location- figure up your cost to build- figure 50% rental average- and see it that will cover your cost- with a nice salary for you.
One of the problems with Ohio- is it will have a 3 month very busy season and 3-4 months of not so busy- and closed for 4-5 months. So you need to divide your annual cost by 6 month. This will help determine how many sites you need to cover cost.

Best of luck!

Great advice Dave. I actually spoke with the owner of Anchor Down when we were there in August. He was very nice and informative.

[Zak1]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

I know that a lot of people whine about road noise and train tracks...but if you get too far off of the beaten path you may loose lots of business!

In other words...you need to be somewhat visible to travelers!

Personally, I love the highway buzz and the trains really don't bother me (the double main line between Detroit and Chicago was 50 feet from the side door of the house I grew up in)...

What does get to me is the garbage trucks with their backup beepers going off in and around an RV park at 5 am (much more common than many realize)!

Unless your plans are to create a destination park, a big portion of your business will most likely come from people traveling that will call ahead from the road looking for a place to stay for the night and not from reservations six months out.

Not all RV'ers want to drive 50 miles into the boonies searching for a place to stay for one, two, three or more nights, but prefer to find a spot somewhat close to civilization and EZ ON/EZ OFF (anyone remember that?).

As for fire pits...a lot of RV'ers are switching to propane fire pits since transporting wood is becoming a nightmare with all of the beetle infestation around the country, not too mention the wildfire danger (yes, even in Ohio).

And me personally, I carried around the same firewood for five years in the back of my truck and recently gave it away as I just wasn't using it anymore.

For many reasons...like fire pits two feet from the RV's awning...smoke filling up my RV and making all of my clothes and RV furniture stink...and smelly burning wood has been becoming quite common these days as well...not too mention that fire pits might be an insurance hassle for you!

Anywayz...some random thoughts from a fellow RV'er of over 40 years!

Maybe more later!

Good points.
Thans

[phillyg]

A lot of angle on back-up sites. Water, electric and sewer collocated, as close together as local ordinances allow. If the location is near touristy stuff, make it a destination CG rather than for one night stops. Be realistic with your business plan. I looked into doing the same some years ago. I could never get the cash flow to work out.

[Zak1]

Originally Posted by phillyg

A lot of angle on back-up sites. Water, electric and sewer collocated, as close together as local ordinances allow. If the location is near touristy stuff, make it a destination CG rather than for one night stops. Be realistic with your business plan. I looked into doing the same some years ago. I could never get the cash flow to work out.

Thanks Phillyg,
Can you give me a quick and dirty rundown that you used for the math?
Cost and size of property, where it was, how many sites?

Thanks in advance!