Pittsburgh RV Show

[Mr Havercamp]

We attended the Pittsburgh Show yesterday. If you go be sure and check out the newly designed ocean wave sidewalls on the toy hauler in this picture. Sadly there was no salesman near by so I could ask about it and if it was a new option. Zoom in on the sidewall of the slide of the trailer behind it, it's nice too.

I had a salesman tell me I could pull an Open Range with 2100lb pin weight, 14300 GVWR, with my 5.0 F150? He said its just a matter of buying the correct WDH. Those WD 5th wheel hitches must also be a new design. Has anyone else seen one yet.

Its just the same thing year after year at these shows, nothing really new. Lots more electronics and stuff crammed in that will break maybe. No shortage of Lippert and Furrion junk. It's evident to me that build quality overall as dropped a notch since last year if that was even possible. Next year I think I'll just save the $36 and go to dinner although playing around with the sale persons does have its merits. Something to do on a cold Sunday afternoon, and the game was on about every TV in every rig. Due to that game across the river, there was no real crowd.

IMO the Rockwoods had the best fit and finish over and above all the towables at this show no matter the price range. It surprised me. I even noticed some real boners in the Airstreams.

Also for anyone interested, the Rockwoods I looked under and a few other brands are still using the weak deflecting fresh water tank supports.

[5picker]

We are headed there this coming Saturday. I'll check to see if it got worse sitting there!

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by 5picker

We are headed there this coming Saturday. I'll check to see if it got worse sitting there!

The picture makes it look worse than actual, but it certainly will jump out at you...........interested is seeing what you think. It's on the lower level.

There is also a sort of popup/hybrid offroad looking thing out in the outer lobby called an Imagine that's made in South Africa......check that thing out. It's only 26K. But be prepared to have your ear beat off by the guy who owns it........He must hold the distributing license for them

[Philos3]

I've been getting the impression that some in the industry have doubled down on first impressions by focusing on excellent paint jobs.

Whenever I go inside the new units at these shows, I find it incredibly boring and common, lacking meaningful innovation.

And, I think they have given up on build quality and quality control. Instead, they try to sell you on their mfg/dealer PDI and customer support. Building custom units apparently locks the mfg into the old model that they can't seem to overcome or be honest about.

And many of these mfgs are weight deniers. They can't get innovative with the quality of the components, so they end up driving the weight up to the point that you have little payload capacity. I believe they silently trust that the new buyers won't even think about payload capacity, or if they do won't verify the payload capacity before they take delivery.

I think Gerber had it right about the downwards spiral of the industry.

[Tapex]

Originally Posted by Mr Havercamp

We attended the Pittsburgh Show yesterday. If you go be sure and check out the newly designed ocean wave sidewalls on the toy hauler in this picture. Sadly there was no salesman near by so I could ask about it and if it was a new option. Zoom in on the sidewall of the slide of the trailer behind it, it's nice too.

I had a salesman tell me I could pull an Open Range with 2100lb pin weight, 14300 GVWR, with my 5.0 F150? He said its just a matter of buying the correct WDH. Those WD 5th wheel hitches must also be a new design. Has anyone else seen one yet.

Its just the same thing year after year at these shows, nothing really new. Lots more electronics and stuff crammed in that will break maybe. No shortage of Lippert and Furrion junk. It's evident to me that build quality overall as dropped a notch since last year if that was even possible. Next year I think I'll just save the $36 and go to dinner although playing around with the sale persons does have its merits. Something to do on a cold Sunday afternoon, and the game was on about every TV in every rig. Due to that game across the river, there was no real crowd.

IMO the Rockwoods had the best fit and finish over and above all the towables at this show no matter the price range. It surprised me. I even noticed some real boners in the Airstreams.

Also for anyone interested, the Rockwoods I looked under and a few other brands are still using the weak deflecting fresh water tank supports.

That's some neat pic Havercamp of the new ocean wave wall. Thanks for sharing this insightful information

[Philos3]

"noticed some real boners in the Airstreams."

Sorry, I'm not familiar with that term. Please expand on that comment and whether or not you are talking about the tt or the touring mh.

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by Philos3

"noticed some real boners in the Airstreams."

Sorry, I'm not familiar with that term. Please expand on that comment and whether or not you are talking about the tt or the touring mh.

Lol..........it can have multiple meanings but around here it's used to describe a screw up, a mistake, a sloppy installation etc.

TT,s.

[Tapex]

You'd think when they build/ construct for the possibility of a dealer taking it to a show they'd at least triple check every little nouck and cranny before thousands of eyes check it out like begin judged for comparison compitition IMHO :what:

[Philos3]

"around here it's used to describe a screw up, a mistake, a sloppy installation etc"

Ok, understood, but what was screwed up, what mistake was seen, what was sloppily installed?

(Sorry, but I find opinions very tiresome without the supporting explanations)
===================
"You'd think when they build/ construct for the possibility of a dealer taking it to a show they'd at least triple check every little nouck and cranny before thousands of eyes check it out like begin judged for comparison compitition IMHO"

I use to think that way, but I don't anymore. There are a few well experienced buyers at these shows, but mostly I think you see those buyers who are all dreamy eyed who are impressed/overwhelmed by the paint job and the excellent first impression you usually get when one takes a big picture scan of the interior.

You have to be a bit of a pain in the rear like me who gets right to the detail and instead sees the boners and poor quality.

On used vehicles I am good at spotting the water damage, the outside damage the owner chose not to repair or the make do repairs, the rust, the lack of maintenance, and the out of date tires that appear to be road ready but are not road ready, etc. (some advantage having been an RV inspector for an extended warranty company)

The salesmen I interact with often end up taking some Advil and don't even get close to closing a deal with me.

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by tapex

You'd think when they build/ construct for the possibility of a dealer taking it to a show they'd at least triple check every little nouck and cranny before thousands of eyes check it out like begin judged for comparison compitition IMHO :what:

You would think? But they don't. My wife oohs and ahhhs. While I'm being my trim carpenter based nitpicking self which drives her up the wall. I did quit taking pictures of stuff at her request. The typical sawdust, crooked hinges, scratches, nicks, loose kitchen islands, etc. There was one 5er that had an 18" long coat rack beside the entry door with 5 hooks. It was at least 2 inches out of level. In another they had LED strip lighting behind the slides flange. But they ran the strip so crooked that when the slide was extended the inner seal covered it, but only in misc areas which really looked like hell. That's the new trend. All this cheap color changing LED tape lighting under counter edges, cabinet toe kicks, behind slide flanges etc. Looks more like a cat house than an RV lol. I found the remotes in some and changed them to red.

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by Philos3

"around here it's used to describe a screw up, a mistake, a sloppy installation etc"

Ok, understood, but what was screwed up, what mistake was seen, what was sloppily installed?

Trim cut too short and looked to have been done so by having a beaver chew through it. Outlets and control panels installed crooked, cabinet doors with nicks and scratches. Interior doors not installed true. Just general RV workmanship stuff. I think I would expect more when the price is @ 40k for a 16' single axle trailer. I could never see dropping that many clams for one but that's just my take on it.

[Tapex]

I'm just learning here, I apologise for anything or anyone I may be offending

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by tapex

I'm just learning here, I apologise for anything or anyone I may be offending

You did not offend anybody??????????
No apology required

[Tapex]

Originally Posted by Mr Havercamp

You did not offend anybody??????????
No apology required

Thank You, Mr. Havercamp

[themounties]

Are there any Forest River rv's worth driving up there to see? dw wants to go

[rockfordroo]

Mr H:

Did the manufacturer call it Ocean Waves? Assuming I'm supposed to look along the bottom of the trailer, your pic looks more like mountains on the horizon to me. (Mountains would make more sense for an RV than waves, I'd think.)

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

Mr H:

Did the manufacturer call it Ocean Waves? Assuming I'm supposed to look along the bottom of the trailer, your pic looks more like mountains on the horizon to me. (Mountains would make more sense for an RV than waves, I'd think.)

You're supposed to look at the waves in the fiberglass sidewall itself, such as warped, bent, deflected, etc. It was by far the waviest sidewall in a new trailer I have ever seen. I actually noticed it from the other end of the row down through the space between the trailers. It was bad. The picture makes it look way worse but I would not have bought it if they gave me 50% off show prices.

Originally Posted by themounties

Are there any Forest River rv's worth driving up there to see? dw wants to go

There are quite a few different Forest River brands. The Open Range products on the lower level made a good impression on me, I spent a lot of time in them, and the Grand Designs were nice, and had good fit and finish except it appeared they stuffed them full of more Lippert stuff than even Forest River uses.

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by Mr Havercamp

You're supposed to look at the waves in the fiberglass sidewall itself, such as warped, bent, deflected, etc. It was by far the waviest sidewall in a new trailer I have ever seen. I actually noticed it from the other end of the row down through the space between the trailers. It was bad. The picture makes it look way worse but I would not have bought it if they gave me 50% off show prices.

I'll take your word for it. I sure can't see it in the pic. Not saying it's not there, just saying I can't see it. There seems to be a lot of reflection coming off the wall to the left.

Oh, well.

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

I'll take your word for it. I sure can't see it in the pic. Not saying it's not there, just saying I can't see it. There seems to be a lot of reflection coming off the wall to the left.

Oh, well.

Hmmmmmm, when was the last time you visited an Optometrist???

Perhaps its me and my years of Construction experience because I have a good eye for straight, plumb and level. I realize a true flat laminated sidewall is impossible to manufacturer for a bunch of reasons but looking down the side of this particular trailer it had some wow factor. Add to that the high gloss filon or gelcoat or whatever they call it and are using on some of these things, and this one was bad. How bad is up to everyone's individual interpretation I guess, but my wife who typically does not notice things such as this sure noticed it on this one. Evidently the dealer did not think it was too bad to floor it at the show, but nothing surprises me anymore. I had also seen another Toy Hauler where the Happijac system that raises the furniture or bunks up in the toy area had ripped completely from the wall and they had it leaning there inside the unit. I guess they figure they have a good chance of some sucker coming along and buying that particular one, then they'll do some type of cob job fixing it.

[Tapex]

I like the cob job fixing statement!