Potable Water Security II

[babock]

Originally Posted by spock123

A better way is for ethanol to be made from sugar cane.

Actually it's just as bad as corn. Deforestation in Brazil pretty much wipes out any benefit the planting of massive amounts of sugar cane does.

The trouble with Brazil’s much-celebrated ethanol ‘miracle’ | Grist

[spock123]

Originally Posted by babock

Actually it's just as bad as corn. Deforestation in Brazil pretty much wipes out any benefit the planting of massive amounts of sugar cane does.

The trouble with Brazil’s much-celebrated ethanol ‘miracle’ | Grist

That story was written in 2010. Side by side it’s cheaper to make ethanol from sugar cane than corn. We are pumping the aquifer dry in corn country. Same way in North Carolina hogs drink more water than a person does, we are left with the poop and the smell.

[babock]

Not saying that using food crops for fuel production is good no matter what you use. Brazil is a perfect example of how it has major problems. That article points out just one issue.

[RobertDS]

Originally Posted by spock123

That story was written in 2010. Side by side it’s cheaper to make ethanol from sugar cane than corn. We are pumping the aquifer dry in corn country. Same way in North Carolina hogs drink more water than a person does, we are left with the poop and the smell.

LOL, having lived in Iowa for years. I will attest to the fullness of the aroma! As our child (at 4 years old) said, I smell PIGGIES!

[Indymule]

[QUOTE=Scrapper;1660416]It wasn't that many years ago that diesel was cheaper than gas per gallon. After so many people started buying cars and pickups with diesel engines the price difference reversed.

I guess you don't know that most of the oil drilled in Alaska goes to the world oil market by tanker ships. I've heard that it's the same with the oil in the lower 48, the only difference is it is refined before it's shipped so we get to keep the left-over pollutants and garbage here.[/

The number of diesel cars and trucks had nothing to do with the price increase. What drove the price of diesel so high was the changes made to keep pollution down. Agricultural diesel is still cheap.

[babock]

How did this thread go sideways?

I guess post #2.

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by babock

How did this thread go sideways?

I guess post #2.

With the original subject, I think sidewise was the only way to go!!

[bpa556]

I second the notion that this is a well-crafted troll.

This is the internet forum equivalent of the shenanigans being so fearfully discussed in this thread...[emoji6]

[trees]

Post #6 is what I'm going with. Also, read the wall cutting question and one repondant was doing #6 to install locking fresh water tank access. So it must be a concern with other fellow campers. I do think most RVs already designed with this feature such as motor homes and 5th wheels.

Some of these commenters, obviously don't read much before commenting. I have no fear of the pressure side. Since most of you use the pressure side, no trouble for you. No harm or worry to you. This is a question on supply tank security, but since some don't read before they troll out insults, this post is just fodder for the actions.

The posts on ethanol are misguided. I've followed the industry since Carter years. It is a good industry and produces many excellent products. If you follow the industry news, very amazing. What I've learned is the extent that step by step technology improvements can make to farming and this industry. Also, to what extent the oil industry will go to put up road blocks. If you want to understand what's wrong with Washington, the ethanol industry is a good insight to see how it operates. Miss information and bad science is bought and paid for. Paid trolling is now a vocation. Politics is a funded economy. EPA has been wholly corrupted long before Trump. I do think the current boss of EPA and the CIC are excellent. They support ethanol and went against the wishes of the swamp.

Some things that most do not understand is that ethanol is the best thing that happened t ICE and fuel. Ethanol has little competition in good fuel character and quality. Read of the optimised E85 mid commercial van that the California EPA funded. Cummings engineers found that E85 fuel was so powerful the engine only needed to be half the size of their current diesel. Yes, 2x the torque per displacement. The engine had more hp than the gasoline option and more torque than the diesel. It was the best driver experience engine accessory. No expensive high pressure diesel injectors needed. Engine was less expensive than the heavy diesel. Mileage was better than the gas engine and fuel costs on par with the diesel. They were set to go into production before the oil industry funded the derailment of the project. Also, tailpipe emissions easily met with inexpensive catalytic converter. The engineers felt if they would have utilize a turbo inner cooler the results would have been better. Experimenting with E100 indicated a much larger improvement than just linear projection would suggest.

[TheWolfPaq82]

Originally Posted by babock

Not saying that using food crops for fuel production is good no matter what you use. Brazil is a perfect example of how it has major problems. That article points out just one issue.

The corn for Ethanol is not actually a "Human" food crop. Most of that corn would be either processed or used as animal feed and doesn't diminish food available to people.

[spock123]

I have no problem with ethanol, the problem is ethanol could be made cheaper from sugar. Also corn is better used for human or animal food. Using corn for ethanol drives up the cost of feed for pork, chicken and turkey. Plus as the states in the corn belt pump the aquifers dry to water corn, the aquifers are already beginning to dry up as farmers have to drill deeper wells. But anyway this isn’t what the op asked.

[trees]

The majority of corn harvest is not irrigated. The stats change, but on downward projection. Hybrids and GMOs due better and farm practices have changed to plant early as to ensure soil shading during peak heat. Remember the water is only used in peak damage times to keep the crop growing. It's not like hydroponic growing where water is continually applied. They use milo and sorghum grain in the drier zones. Sugar cane also grown down south. We have to be careful when reading historical data. Things have improved modern times tremendously.

Feed stocks for ethanol are diverse and corn is used and popular per the supply and cost. No one is going hungry. Livestock takes as much feed as before. Feed has actually benefited from ethanol. DDGs really boost nutrition. Live stock nutrition is going into more scientific results and DDG type products are at the forefront. You do realize the all important protein is increased within the ethanol process. It's really a fermentation process in which we have learned max health benefits to food treatment. The starch is unhealthy, but produces like in humans fat. This makes for tasty beef and reason why the final stop for bovine is the finishing stage with corn.

Corn acreage has been steady, but the bushels per acre increase. We sit at 170 and time will tell, but the 300 mark is attainable as some farmers already achieving that. What's nice about ethanol profits is that farmers can make some money now on farming and can afford better equipment and utilize better farm practices. This is the phenomenon experienced international as well. Poor nations actually produce more food with ethanol earnings.

There really is a ton of good coming from this industry. To much to cover here. Just be careful of reading bogus articles. Most of these can be traced back to petrol money.

There is great improvement in processing cellulosic ethanol. I read of some very promising processes. This is already at the commercial stage and if ever the price of oil shoots up we will have a flotilla of cellulosic process implemented. It is even occurring here and around the world with low oil prices, but at smaller scales.

[NMWildcat]

Alrighty then

[babock]

And this has what to do with potable water?

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by babock

And this has what to do with potable water?

Mod note:
This thread has gone quite a ways off topic and we are about a hair's breadth away from turning political which we all know is not allowed.

So lets please try to keep on the original topic.

Thanks.

[TheWolfPaq82]

Originally Posted by spock123

I have no problem with ethanol, the problem is ethanol could be made cheaper from sugar. Also corn is better used for human or animal food. Using corn for ethanol drives up the cost of feed for pork, chicken and turkey. Plus as the states in the corn belt pump the aquifers dry to water corn, the aquifers are already beginning to dry up as farmers have to drill deeper wells. But anyway this isn’t what the op asked.

No problems in the Ogallala Aquafer.

[trees]

Sorry for contributing to the OT discussion, but the damage was done before my comments. May be good to balance out some of the statements, even if OT?I don't think the OT was political, just OT.

I did author the original post question. It was a follow up on someone else's question of the same subject. That original question was blown off like much of this one as troll or paranoid. This is just an insult to both of our legit questions. I do read others have this same concern and working on #6 solution. Thanks for others input that was advisory and in earnest. Having fun at others expense is a troll like quality, so if one reads those comments, consider the motivation. Some of those posts may be for fun, I'm alright with that. One poster was hitting the entertainment button way to often.

[Iwritecode]

I think this thread has run it's course. OP has hopefully gotten a few helpful suggestions.