Question about perceived value.

Murf2 · 06-22-2015, 10:17 AM

Hi all, I'm new here. I just posted in the welcome mat. I am in the market for a TT or maybe a TH. I have a couple of questions that should apply to either so I didn't post in each separate forum.

1. Within the FR line up, does the quality of the basic trailers get better as you go up through the model line up? For example, is the frame of a Grey Wolf of lesser strength to a comparable size Shockwave? I understand that the finishes and such are nicer but as to the mechanical aspect, what are the differences if any. Are stoves, furnaces, electrical components pretty much the same quality with all the comparable units?

2. I generally believe in buying used and letting the first guy take the depreciation. In shopping late model used units I have found people asking prices close to what the larger dealers advertise for new units. Is this a fairly common occurrence ? Is there some trick to the lower prices advertised by the large discount dealers or did some sellers just pay too much upfront?

Any tips on getting started would be welcome. We are long time tenter's and are wanting a few more comforts as we get older.

Thanks!
Murf

Kels4g · 06-22-2015, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murf2

Hi all, I'm new here. I just posted in the welcome mat. I am in the market for a TT or maybe a TH. I have a couple of questions that should apply to either so I didn't post in each separate forum.

1. Within the FR line up, does the quality of the basic trailers get better as you go up through the model line up? For example, is the frame of a Grey Wolf of lesser strength to a comparable size Shockwave? I understand that the finishes and such are nicer but as to the mechanical aspect, what are the differences if any. Are stoves, furnaces, electrical components pretty much the same quality with all the comparable units?

2. I generally believe in buying used and letting the first guy take the depreciation. In shopping late model used units I have found people asking prices close to what the larger dealers advertise for new units. Is this a fairly common occurrence ? Is there some trick to the lower prices advertised by the large discount dealers or did some sellers just pay too much upfront?

Any tips on getting started would be welcome. We are long time tenter's and are wanting a few more comforts as we get older.

Thanks!
Murf

When we were looking at used units- we ran into the same thing. Units priced at what the brand new ones were. Basically, people were trying to sell them so they didn't have to make the payments but they still owed basically everything they borrowed due to the short time of the loan. So, they wanted the buyer to pay the pay off of the loan and not what the unit is actually worth.

TURBS · 06-22-2015, 11:02 AM

Trailers designated as "lite" or "ultralite" have 8" thin fabricated I beams.
Non lite and non ultralight tt and 5th wheels including toy haulers generally have a "true" 11" I beam.

TURBS
08 duramax tuned n modded
2011 32bhok Sabre
2015 camping "9 nights"

KMP44 · 06-22-2015, 11:07 AM

For question #1, I think you'll find some of both, meaning - all wood framed, metal sided trailers are probably pretty similar in construction, all laminated construction fiberglass ultra-lights are built similarly. So you may find similar ultra-lights where one model has nicer finishes and a higher price, despite being of similar construction.

Then across most of the tt's you will find the same appliances and components in many cases. Companies like FR tend to use a limited number of suppliers, so the microwave, water heater, AC is likely to be the same or at least a different model from the same manufacturer in most of their units.

For question #2 - One or to year old travel trailers don't seem to have a lot of price difference from new units. I've had good luck on getting deals on 2-3 year old cars. Doesn't seem to be worth it with trailers. I'd rather have a new unit with a factory warranty - as the warranty doesn't transfer beyond the original owner, at least with FR.

Good luck in your search!

schrederman · 06-22-2015, 11:08 AM

I own mine, outright... I will be selling it next spring. No loan for the next guy to inherit... And, I will do just that... look at used units (comps, they're called in the real estate market) and price my unit to sell, just below what the dealers are selling similar, used TTs for. Some people neglect TTs and just park them in a field, and never inspect them or work on them at all... then wonder why they leak or this or that doesn't work. That's not the case with mine. It's in covered storage, and has been since new. It's got upgrades and all the bugs are worked out... it has none of the problems that a new unit will have... that I'll have to fix when I buy it... because the "techs" at RV shop aren't really... techs. So... if you come upon a unit like mine, that's basically better than new because all the problems are gone... you'll be fortunate. However someone with enough salt to keep one up probably has enough to figure out what it's worth.

My problem will be that FR has kept my floor plan, but downgraded it from their now discontinued, premium "Surveyor Select" to the Sport series line, and also downgraded the price... and quality... I will be competing with new models that cost about $4,000- less than mine new. Buyers won't generally care about my upgrades or the factory upgrades that cost me more. I'm sure I'll take more of a hit than I should normally because of that.

Another problem you'll encounter is people going online and looking at NADA for used RV prices... I've used them for car/truck trade values, but they seem to be very generous toward the owners of used RVs... The values stated seem to be very inflated. Keep in mind that someone selling a trailer usually wants to be rid of it pretty quick... so make an offer as to what YOU think it's worth.

What anything is worth is what the seller can get for it... nothing more... nothing less.

aceinspp · 06-22-2015, 11:11 AM

Also you will find dealer used prices almost higher than normal compared to what they give for trade-in allowance. Later RJD

Murf2 · 06-22-2015, 02:42 PM

Thanks for the replies! Is there anywhere online that you can find realy information on the construction of the trailers? The "specifications" page on FR doesn't really tell anything about axles, electrical equipment, etc or does one have to check out each trailer on his own to find out what it's built with?

Thanks again for all the replies.
Murf

oxcamper · 06-22-2015, 02:50 PM

Recent used, 1-2 years old, you may get a couple thousand off, but one of the real benefits is that most of the annoying stuff has already been fixed.

donanddona · 06-22-2015, 02:50 PM

I have found Lippert is one of the main supplier for Axels and exterior electrical equipment. Lippert often will not supply the smaller parts (complete leg vs a bevel gear). Subcontracting often leads to the unavailable pieces from companies that fold.

kjpapa · 06-23-2015, 04:00 PM

Just my opinion, but I believe if you can find a used one that is one to two years old and has been taken care of well it is worth at least as much as what you would would pay for a new one from a dealer with a good discount. I have owned four units in the last few years, the first two new, and the last two were one to two year old used ones. The two used ones were available for me to camp in considerably more the first year I had them than the new ones were. That is because of all the frustrating things that go wrong that require time on the dealer lot waiting for repairs on the new one during its first year.

It seems that that warranty they give you on a new one is really just a part of the manufacturers quality inspection. Let the new owner find the problems and we will fix them at that time. I don't know if I will ever buy new again. As I started the post with, "just my opinion."

Iwannacamp · 06-23-2015, 04:08 PM

My 5er was 2 years old... ap. $30k to $18.5k.... but it seems they have gone up alot in the last couple years... the previous owner was OCD

Sallen80 · 06-23-2015, 05:34 PM

I had the same issue with used. They all seemed to have a bad smell inside as well. We decided to go new after looking for months

Oaklevel · 06-23-2015, 06:21 PM

Really it just depends..... no cut & dry answer.... depends on the camper type & size & the area & the availability of new ones & how much they went up....... Deals can be had here because jobs went overseas & many unemployed.

But our son had to sell theirs one year after they bought it he only lost $500 in price but he got a great deal on it new. But it was in the lower price end at $15500.

But when we bought the 2006 in 2008 the economy had tanked & we we able to buy a two year old, only used several times, @ several thousand under new and the dealer threw in the fifth wheel hitch. It was like new condition. It sat on the dealers lot for a year due to the bad economy...... If I had the truck I have now I could have bought a new three year old Sabre at dealer cost. No one in this area wanted a big trailer.

Murf2 · 06-24-2015, 12:38 PM

Thanks for the replies. I am having a hard time deciding what to do. There aren't too many used ones around for sale. I don't really think the warranty is much of an issue unless I get a real lemon. It seems to me that a trailer is going to have only so many useful years in it and if I start with a 5+ year old one, I can expect more maintenance issues sooner. The large FR dealer in Omaha is pricing new units cheaper than anything I can find used.

This last question may seen strange but...... Is a Cherokee Grey Wolf comparable to a Vengeance or XLR in construction and serviceability in hauling a couple dirt bikes and 2 people. I'm not concerned in the creature comforts just build quality and materials used. The extra price for "nicer" interiors seems like a lot. We are coming from tenting and I think the basics will seem very nice to us. Again sorry for the goofy questions.

Thanks,
Murf

Iwannacamp · 06-26-2015, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murf2

Thanks for the replies. I am having a hard time deciding what to do. There aren't too many used ones around for sale. I don't really think the warranty is much of an issue unless I get a real lemon. It seems to me that a trailer is going to have only so many useful years in it and if I start with a 5+ year old one, I can expect more maintenance issues sooner. The large FR dealer in Omaha is pricing new units cheaper than anything I can find used.

This last question may seen strange but...... Is a Cherokee Grey Wolf comparable to a Vengeance or XLR in construction and serviceability in hauling a couple dirt bikes and 2 people. I'm not concerned in the creature comforts just build quality and materials used. The extra price for "nicer" interiors seems like a lot. We are coming from tenting and I think the basics will seem very nice to us. Again sorry for the goofy questions.

Thanks,
Murf

OHHH... one more thing. We looked at "lots" or dealers to find a TT...we weren't looking for a FW. DW was opposed to a FW because of head space in BR. We looked at one on a "chance" and it had enough room. I am only 6 ft. so i didn't need a ton of room.

One more thing... well two more.... the units at the dealer lots were just junk... all had things wrong with them(ones in our price range). I wanted to spend 10K or less...my first trailer. We paid almost 20K..go figure.
The next is... we were coming back from OK having been trailer shopping and had passed the for sale by owner FW several times...literally. DW points it out and said...We should stop...I said ok, but we cannot afford it....

abomb · 06-28-2015, 08:33 AM

When we were looking for 5th wheels, I was amazed at how well they seemed to hold there value. We decided to order one, we picked the colors, floor style appliance colors, changed the convertible couch from fabric to pleather material, and it was still cheaper than I good find a good used one for by me. Now the used ones I looked at were not of the same manufacturer, but we got what fit our needs. I only had to drive 850 miles to pick it up, then drive back 850 miles, and I never towed a 5th wheel before. But I figured it out real quick...lol

gilwilliams101 · 06-28-2015, 08:40 AM

Murf, we went through the same thing. We set out to buy a used toy hauler and found that the only real initial savings was to buy a piece of crap that wasn't worth dragging home which in turn would cost a ton to make decent and buy the time all said and done, you would have new toy hauler money tied up in a 5-8 year old trailer. We bought new 6 weeks ago and are now in the middle of trading it in on a bigger unit and I feel like I am coming out alright on my trade in.

doc73 · 06-28-2015, 08:42 AM

We had a Rockwood TT and "downgraded" to a larger Grey Wolf. I think the Grey Wolf is put together just as well if not better than my Rockwood was for 10,000 cheaper. I thing they are all the same (unless you go really $$). The same people practically make them all anymore and they all have the same floor plans so it seems with different decals.

But with that said they all have their good and bad. The Rockwoods' bed was not fully supported (think twin bed frame under a Queen mattress) and molding and such was always coming off due to using staples on everything. The Grey wolf has no lower light switches anywhere other than on the lights themselves or up about 5 feet off the ground by the main door. So no good for a 2.5 year old during a mid-night potty run. But for the money I'll add the switch to the bathroom.

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