Ready To Throw In The Towel

[Mpwelch50]

We bought our 2012 FR Crusader 320RLT new off the lot in mid 2013. It has been one thing after another. The dealer has had it more than we have. Of course they fixed everything in the first year under warranty which was a list too long to write. Then, about 10K miles into the tires which were cheap chinese crap that came on the trailer, I blew a tire and tore off the fenders, the stairs, and half the flooring on the slide. After learning that "we should have known" that we should have bought new tires right away....I don't understand this theory because we don't put new tires on the cars we buy brand new.....we bought brand new trailer rated Goodyear tires. Less than 1000 miles into those tires we blew one going to WDW and one coming back from WDW which amounted to another 4K worth of damage to the trailer. Came home and bought 4 BRAND NEW TIRES (supercargo trailer tires rated E) and less than 500 miles into a trip I blew another tire and have done more than 5K damage to the trailer this time. It tore off stabilizer jack system/motor, ripped out the propane line, punched a hole in the floor and damaged the couch, bent the slide, tore off the fender, and punched a hole in the sidewall of the trailer.

I am the queen of caution when I drive. I NEVER go over 65 mph (to the consternation of my fellow drivers), I check the air pressure before, during and after every trip and I am more than 1000 lbs UNDER the gross weight. We barely put clothes in the thing and have even taken out half the furniture because we hated the recliners and didn't need 2 of the dining chairs. I never travel with water in the tanks. Most of the time I only have 1 propane tank full because I am usually not going that far. It is almost all highway miles with very little back roads driving other than to get to a campground.

I am so very tired of this tire issue. I am tired of things falling off in my hands. I am tired of the television coming on at odd hours of the day and night unless I unplug it. I am tired of the leaking fresh water tank. I am tired of the propane tank issues that have caused us to replace the regulator 3 times. I am so tired of worrying that I will be broke down on the side of the road with 2 four year olds, 2 dogs, and no cell signal.

We have spent so much money replacing things on this trailer. 12 tires in less than 2 years (we bought this trailer in mid 2013 but it was new. Hinges, doors, blinds, cords, plastic doohickeys, you name it, we have had to replace it.

Every time we take it for repairs or replacements they swear it is in good shape. The have leveled and lasered and greased and bent and replaced everything possible. A new water pump 2 weeks after warranty went out.

This is our first and last fifth wheel. We are so discouraged. Are we the only ones? Do we just have a lemon in a bowl of apples? Is this what I can expect from wanting to live the RV lifestyle? We could have stayed in resorts every year for the last 2 years and not spent as much as we have spent on this Crusader. My husband says I can't take it back out. It was to be our retirement traveling home. Now it's just a money pit.

Rant over. Would appreciate some feedback.

Michelle

[schrederman]

Not totally typical but these forums are filled with similar stories... unfortunately. I don't know if Texas lemon laws cover RVs... but they probably don't. This and all other states need lemon laws for 5ers and TTs. I've been lucky, so far. Everything on mine has been fixed by me. There hasn't been anything major other than the bath skylight recall and a cracked sink. I do not trust the dealership and their "techs". They don't generally pay well enough to hire good people. I found the defects in my tires before they caused any damage, and changed to Maxxis... but I still have my fingers crossed every time I go out.


This is our second TT and as I said we've been lucky. I'm researching brands to upgrade next year. Our family is experiencing a population explosion. In 5 years we've had 6 grandchildren. We want to take them camping, fishing, and hiking instead of to theme parks, etc.


I've been pretty vocal about the poor quality products that most RV manufacturers put out. Complaining on the web doesn't seem to have much effect... and probably never will. We work hard for the time we have off. When that time is stolen, along with our dollars that we spent for these things, it seems criminal to me... and from your post and many others, I know I'm not alone.

[Mtelkman]

Wow that is a bad story. Sounds like you got a real lemon. I have been fortunate in that my previous TT and my current 5er have been pretty much problem free. I can't imagine how frustrated you must be; I would have sold it off a while ago and tried again.

Never heard of Supercargo trailer tires. Who sells those?

[clr]

Sorry the hear about all your tire problems. What size tire are you running on your unit? I think that 2012 FR Crusader's came standard with 15 inch wheels and 16 inch wheels were an option.

[mud yapster]

How sad, I don't blame you one bit. I've never heard of those tires but there are so many from China the brand name ones also from there. It's like pot luck with ST tires it seems. Did your insurance pay for all the repairs.

[Karacell]

Man, I thought I had a lemon...you got me beat.
:-(

[CampingGator]

We keep reading about blown tires on the fifth wheels. Is this a problem primarily on fivers, or does it happen to the TT's too? My DH and I are starting to think that this is due to the weight of the trailers. Perhaps they need three axels and six tires to be safer.

[phillyg]

Originally Posted by CampingGator

We keep reading about blown tires on the fifth wheels. Is this a problem primarily on fivers, or does it happen to the TT's too? My DH and I are starting to think that this is due to the weight of the trailers. Perhaps they need three axels and six tires to be safer.

I think TTs have the same problem with tires. Even if ST tires are properly matched to the axles and trailer weight doesn't exceed the tire's weight limits, the damned things either age out or have early blowouts.

[Abrozny]

I feel for ya! Our 3 month old social order vengeance toyhauler is on its second refrigeraror, second AC going on its third, loose or kinked plumbing hoses, and now we noticed the black metal skirt around the bottom of the trailer is completely warped and detached from the outside walls just on one side of the trailer. This puppy is going up for sale after this next round of repairs. It's a shame, it was exactly what we were looking for and FR has tried hard to help but it's just not working

[Iwannacamp]

IMO if everyone told every tire company/person how tired they are of junk tired I think they would fix it. I have spoke to several employees of Cooper Tire here...they just say ok. I have emailed them with a response on "we have no intention of making trailer tires..." Greasy wheels get the grease. Contact. Contact. Contact tire companies. They will get the drift


Sent from my iPhone using Forest River Forums

[aceinspp]

Well it good to hear these stories but we only get half the story. Like what kind of tires did you have ? what did you replace with? Air temp when tires blew? 12 tires in 2 years? Did you have dealer check axle alinement so many things un answered. Sorry to hear of all the issues and maybe you can get it sorted out soon. Maybe dealer is sloughing off and saying thing that really never got done. Later RJD

[Mpwelch50]

Originally Posted by aceinspp

Well it good to hear these stories but we only get half the story. Like what kind of tires did you have ? what did you replace with? Air temp when tires blew? 12 tires in 2 years? Did you have dealer check axle alinement so many things un answered. Sorry to hear of all the issues and maybe you can get it sorted out soon. Maybe dealer is sloughing off and saying thing that really never got done. Later RJD

If you read my post I said that we had the original tires on the trailer (PowerKing), then Goodyear, then SuperCargo. They are/were all cheap chinese because NO trailer tires are made in America anymore. Air temp when tires blew?????? I can't drive when it's too hot????? It's the south. It never goes below 100 for the entire summer. The dealer says they always check the alignment but how would I know for sure? Stand over the dealer while they do it? I gave more than enough information to show that I am a careful driver who checks her tires numerous times during a trip. I said it's almost all highway driving. We didn't blow 12 tires. We bought 12 tires. Because when we changed to a new brand we changed all 4 tires. We blew 2 of the first set, 2 of the second set, and 1 of the third set. The third set is only 2 weeks old. Every axle position has blown. It's not the same tire every time. One blew less than 500 miles into a trip.

I don't understand which half of the story you would like. Sorry to be snippy but I am frustrated by this situation. Which questions that you have were unanswered by my very LONG original post.

[IronCobra]

Honestly, you need to take you rig in and have the alignment checked by an alignment Expert (someone who does big rigs like Fleetpride) Or do it yourself the old fashion way by measuring since you havestraight axles) Replacing crap tires with good tires and still having blowouts is uncommon. Many people switch to G rates 14ply all steel belted LT tires just to be safe. You said you went with an E rates tired, is that not standard on a 5ver? You might even have an axle problem. You definitely have some type of rolling issue. Evrything else seems kind of common for RVs.

Also, regarding tires. Maxxis makes a great trailer tire which is US made. You might also want to look at The Goodyear Cargo tire.

You might want to consider getting a wireless TPMS sensor kit. We purchased ours in Amazon for about $300 and it constantly monitors the air pressure, leak, dramatic drop, as well as temperature of each tire. This can help notify you of potential danger before it becomes catastrophic.

Check out this thread:http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum205/

[clr]

The more detailed information that you provide here the better the advise you will be able to receive. I can tell that you are very frustrated and want to vent. So some of the unanswered questions or information that would be help full for us to help you would be:
Mfr of axle
Load limit of axle
Tire size
Load range of the tires you used
Air pressure you use in tires
Any pattern to the wear of the tires

I think that I am speaking for most here, more and better information allows for much better advice and suggestions from members of the forum.

[MeepMeep]

Originally Posted by Mpwelch50

If you read my post I said that we had the original tires on the trailer (PowerKing), then Goodyear, then SuperCargo. They are/were all cheap chinese because NO trailer tires are made in America anymore. Air temp when tires blew?????? I can't drive when it's too hot????? It's the south. It never goes below 100 for the entire summer. The dealer says they always check the alignment but how would I know for sure? Stand over the dealer while they do it? I gave more than enough information to show that I am a careful driver who checks her tires numerous times during a trip. I said it's almost all highway driving. We didn't blow 12 tires. We bought 12 tires. Because when we changed to a new brand we changed all 4 tires. We blew 2 of the first set, 2 of the second set, and 1 of the third set. The third set is only 2 weeks old. Every axle position has blown. It's not the same tire every time. One blew less than 500 miles into a trip.

I don't understand which half of the story you would like. Sorry to be snippy but I am frustrated by this situation. Which questions that you have were unanswered by my very LONG original post.

Wow!

[KMP44]

Sorry to hear about your issues. There are plenty of quality issues out there, but have that many tire failures is unusual. You shouldn't have to trouble shoot this, but it may be the only option at this point. Maybe start with weighing your rig at a CAT scale. See what the actual weight is to evaluate the tire size and load rating. Then as others have suggested, find a good trailer repair shop, as in commercial trailers. They are typically much more qualified than an rv dealer to check alignment and look for any other issues.


Then maybe look into LT tire options to get away from ST tires (not that you want to buy another set of tires...). Maybe go up a load rating or two and with LT tires you have more options for US manufactured tires with better track records.

[djmathat]

Originally Posted by Mpwelch50

We bought our 2012 FR Crusader 320RLT new off the lot in mid 2013. It has been one thing after another. The dealer has had it more than we have. Of course they fixed everything in the first year under warranty which was a list too long to write. Then, about 10K miles into the tires which were cheap chinese crap that came on the trailer, I blew a tire and tore off the fenders, the stairs, and half the flooring on the slide. After learning that "we should have known" that we should have bought new tires right away....I don't understand this theory because we don't put new tires on the cars we buy brand new.....we bought brand new trailer rated Goodyear tires. Less than 1000 miles into those tires we blew one going to WDW and one coming back from WDW which amounted to another 4K worth of damage to the trailer. Came home and bought 4 BRAND NEW TIRES (supercargo trailer tires rated E) and less than 500 miles into a trip I blew another tire and have done more than 5K damage to the trailer this time. It tore off stabilizer jack system/motor, ripped out the propane line, punched a hole in the floor and damaged the couch, bent the slide, tore off the fender, and punched a hole in the sidewall of the trailer.

I am the queen of caution when I drive. I NEVER go over 65 mph (to the consternation of my fellow drivers), I check the air pressure before, during and after every trip and I am more than 1000 lbs UNDER the gross weight. We barely put clothes in the thing and have even taken out half the furniture because we hated the recliners and didn't need 2 of the dining chairs. I never travel with water in the tanks. Most of the time I only have 1 propane tank full because I am usually not going that far. It is almost all highway miles with very little back roads driving other than to get to a campground.

I am so very tired of this tire issue. I am tired of things falling off in my hands. I am tired of the television coming on at odd hours of the day and night unless I unplug it. I am tired of the leaking fresh water tank. I am tired of the propane tank issues that have caused us to replace the regulator 3 times. I am so tired of worrying that I will be broke down on the side of the road with 2 four year olds, 2 dogs, and no cell signal.

We have spent so much money replacing things on this trailer. 12 tires in less than 2 years (we bought this trailer in mid 2013 but it was new. Hinges, doors, blinds, cords, plastic doohickeys, you name it, we have had to replace it.

Every time we take it for repairs or replacements they swear it is in good shape. The have leveled and lasered and greased and bent and replaced everything possible. A new water pump 2 weeks after warranty went out.

This is our first and last fifth wheel. We are so discouraged. Are we the only ones? Do we just have a lemon in a bowl of apples? Is this what I can expect from wanting to live the RV lifestyle? We could have stayed in resorts every year for the last 2 years and not spent as much as we have spent on this Crusader. My husband says I can't take it back out. It was to be our retirement traveling home. Now it's just a money pit.

Rant over. Would appreciate some feedback.

Michelle

By half the time and problems I would have "lawyer-ed up" with a lemon law problem, asked for a replacement NEW and if it went south on the same quality issues set it on the side of the road with signs with big lemons all over them and the dealer and manufacturers names until they gave me my money back. Sounds like worse than poor quality control and severe problems with the manufacturer. Always keep chronological notes of the "WHO WHAT WHERE WHEN WHY HOW" for every problem, even in warranty...notify the dealer of your intentions and if they will not help you with the manufacturer, Park the unit as near to their dealership with the signs with all the problems noted with the WWWWWH in a list attached to the window of the unit for all to read!!! Would be nice that you could post pictures of the problems also to show others what can happen if they buy the products from the dealer/manufacturer and also the receipts for your expenses to back up your claims. No action from that, then: cut copy and paste your info and displeasure in every social media forum you can get your hands on!! This sucker buyer beware for the manufacturers cost cutting corners and planned obsolescence, especially on cheap tires, etc. needs to stop and consumers are the ones who have the upper hand but must have the patience to make them listen with the populace and media assisting you. If you have a TV news channel in your area such as Channel 3 for Action that will verify your complaints and put it on their show while trying to resolve the problem first then go that route. Nothing pushes a dealer and manufacturer more than live TV negative reporting!!!
Now the ball is in your court, you have a lemon of a 5th wheel and the dealer and tire manufacturers and have your money. What is it worth per hour to try and get it back??? They are betting that someone with two small children and pets and a job and no time will just go away with their piece of manufactured junk and disappear. (Also record [apps on phones available for recording for next to nothing if not free], then use speaker phone on your land line or if in person stick the phone app in their face, every conversation from now on and let the person you are speaking to know you are recording them.) It would be priceless to hear a manufacturer or dealer tell me I should have known better than not to have replaced brand new better quality tires than what they had sold you because the ones they sold on the vehicle were Chinese Junk!!
Good luck you are the customer and never forget that they plan on you just giving up!!!

[Mpwelch50]

I know that I am frustrated and I apologize for snapping at those who are just trying to help. I am sorry.

It just doesn't make sense to me that I should have to "be aware" of all the issues that come with owning a fifth wheel. When we decided to buy one we went to three large rv shows. We talked to more people than I can count about what they liked and disliked about their RV's. We visited campgrounds and talked to people who owned the fifth wheels that we were looking at. We discussed pro's and con's of having a motorhome vs fifth wheel vs TT. We did some minor research on "current problems" but not the in depth research I suppose we should have done on these types of forums. We didn't join the FR forum until after we bought the Crusader. We trusted the dealer/manufacturer to give us pertinent knowledgeable information about our leap into the RV world. We had never owned an RV of this magnitude. (We owned a pop up 15 years ago)

It never occurred to us that we should put new tires on it the day after we bought it.

It never occurred to us to check that the trailer would begin falling apart within 1 year of purchase. That the front cap of the trailer would be so discolored and faded that we were once told we couldn't enter a trailer park because our trailer was deemed too old and junky looking. (we still had the sides damaged from the tire blowouts because we hadn't made it home yet) Forest River specifically denies any liability in this fading even though the internet is full of pictures and complaints about this particular fading. We were told when we bought it that the "gel coat" would last for years with little to no upkeep other than washing/waxing which we do regularly.

It never occurred to us that we should have to put thousands of dollars worth of after market items on it to make it safe and usable.

Is this how new RVers are treated as the norm? That they should know better?

When we bought our truck and our car we didn't immediately start having to replace or add stuff to make it safe to drive.

When I pulled out of the lot that day I was armed with all the information I could find about pulling, driving, safety. I made the incorrect assumption that the manufacturer knew that I was taking my family on the road and that they had produced the high quality item that I had paid a lot of money for. I was not under the delusion that I would never have to replace anything ever. But this? I never could have predicted this. Forest River was super helpful until the day the warranty expired. From that day forward they have dodged and denied every issue we have brought to them. Including the horrible fading problem of this model.

We tell EVERYONE we know not to buy a forest river product. We have pages of copied emails between them and us. We save everything from our dealer. We have ever conversation between us and the tire manufacturers.

Because of our documentation Power King paid for the first repairs. Goodyear paid for the second set of repairs. Who knows if SuperCargo will pay for this latest set. The fact that they paid for everything means they know there is a problem. We are a manufacturers nightmare. We document everything with photo, video, and paperwork. It has served us well. (Power King tried to say that UPS had no record of having picked up the tire even though UPS denied that. Really PK? Too bad we had a video of the UPS guy picking up the tire and all the pertinent information that was on the sidewall of the tire. Ooops. Yeah got that check within 48 hours)

For me it's not about the money. It's about the safety. We shouldn't have to constantly be worried about a catastrophic disaster from one of these blow outs. If the 16 inch tire is the better, safer tire then why does FR put a 15 inch tire on it? Why do they put a cheap chinese Power King tire on it that is known to detread within the first 1000 miles. There are hundreds of these stories of this tire blowing out. Especially on Crusaders. I got gas the first day out this trip next to a brand new 2015 Crusader that had blown tires on both sides within the first 48 hours of his trip. And he had nothing in the trailer other than what came in it because he was delivering it to someone as a gift.

I have had it CAT weighed. It is well within limits. I can only trust that the RV manufacturer and the dealer put the proper axles on the trailer. Why would I even think that it didn't have the right axles on it?

It was the RV dealer himself who told us, after the first blow out that caused all the damage, that we should have known to replace the tires with a better tire right after we bought the trailer. We were dumbfounded. Who in their right mind would even consider that?????? You sold us a 38K trailer with tires that weren't rated for the trailer it was on?????? Needless to say we will never buy another trailer from that dealer again. And we tell everyone we know not to do it either.

Everyone keeps saying that we should have a different tire, a different rim, a different size, a different system, a different axle, a different load range. My question is WHY???????? For 38K we should have gotten the right tire on the right axle on the right load range the first time installed on the trailer when we bought it. This trailer has never, not once, been overloaded. Flying J/Pilot has more of my money for scale weight than I care to admit. Loaded, unloaded, with truck, without truck. I have done every conceivable configuration of checking that I could think of. It's always within the "correct" margins. Always.

Sell it? I am not that kind of person. I would never, ever, ever put this POS in a sale lot for some unsuspecting person to buy and then find out that someone died because I didn't disclose the problems we have had with this trailer. It would be morally, ethically, and legally wrong to just repair and sell this thing. I don't want to be like the people who manufactured and sold me this POS.

Enough ranting. Thanks for your constructive replies but my husband says we aren't investing any more money into "after market" items to make sure we don't die the next time. Right now we will probably buy a piece of land and park the thing as a vacation trailer next to a lake or river somewhere. And I will be advising people to stop buying Forest River products until the day I draw my last breath.

[RubberNail]

On tires, bite the bullet and put on Michelin XPS XRIB tires. I had similar problems and those solved it. If those go, the problem is NOT the tires. Check the fiberglass fender very carefully for traces of black on the inside of the lip. With just a few months of age the fenders can "curl" inward, and even though there looks to be no clearance problem, the fenders can scrub the tires during bouncing on uneven pavement. Had that and had to add braces to keep the fenders where they should be.
On the other problems, well the manufacturers buy China crap and just assemble it together, sometimes sloppy. If you buy a RV you need to be, or you will become, an expert at repairs. Good news is that 2 or 3 years out you usually work through most of the problems.

[Ozark Guy]

Tire problems are common, especially on 5th wheels. I have a 08' 37' 4 slide SOB that I've had 4 sets of tires because of blowouts, it been that it's always 2 at a time.. The last 2 were on 820 in Ft Worth in a construction area on Friday evening during rush hour.. Some folks seem to get a little putout about blocking the only lane.. Go figure.. I reported the tires to DOD on the last go round .. The tread just came off.. Lost both sides and the bottom of one slide, that took out the kitchen cabinet.. I think it's a combination of #%#^** tires and trailer weights.. The repair guys says they make a lot of $$$ on repairs.. So far discount tires, just keep giving me new ones... It's a no win situation.