Really bad dealer experience. Need opinions on what to do from here.

[Evereddie]

My dealer and issues we’ve had. What do you think.( sorry this is long)


First the story and then a few questions for your opinions.
We received our Rockwood 2306 near end of May. Took it out for the shakedown trip the next weekend. Things went very good for newbies. 2 weeks later an unusually big storm knocked a tree limb down and right through the roof of our new trailer. In 25 years we have never had a tree limb fall where the trailer was parked.(we both about cried) It came through to the inside and right between 2 ceiling panels and right near the door. If it fell only a foot more over it would have missed the trailer. Limb penetrated about 6 inches. Pulled out the limb and covered with a tarp. Next day cleaned up the hole and the roof and put a patch on it using a circular piece of heavy white plastic and white silicon glue. Looked good and held for quite a while. Called insurance company and contacted our dealer. I wanted 2 estimates. Dealer said he could do one with pictures so I sent him photos. Insurance adjuster came to the house and gave his estimate. Dealer $5,500. Adjuster $3,800. ($500. Deductible) Adjuster low, or dealer high, but within reason given the type of damage. Asked dealer about his estimate and he told me how they had to tear out many of the cabinets to get to the ceiling panels. 2 cabinets over the beds, kitchen cabinet, and the one over the table. (I already knew that would have to be done) A whole lot of labor was on the estimate. Insurance company said once we bring it to the dealer for repairs and get a better estimate they would pay what was needed to repair, not to worry. Not too bad news at this point.


Insurance company agreed we could wait until the season was over before putting in for the repairs. A check came quickly from insurance and they said don’t worry this is not the final check and they would honor the actual repairs cost. I did not deposit it just in case.


Since the patched hole was not really preventing us from using it, we camped and Kayaked all summer. Most within an hour or so from our house but several longer trips of 5 hours or so. We loved it. Wife named her Mini, like it's says on the side and a tip of the hat to Mickey's girlfriend. It was a great summer and we didn't really notice the battle wound much. WE thought when it was repaired it would be as good as new and that took the sting out of the incident. Brought it to dealer end of October for updated estimate and to get repairs done. Now the estimate is 6,040. Said cost of roof went up $500 or so. Put the insurance company together with the dealer and they worked it out. The insurance company would send the difference minus my deductible. Repairs would start. I had told the dealer from the beginning that maybe instead of tearing down all of those cabinets in order to replace 2 whole ceiling panels, that maybe they could cut out a foot or so from each of the 2 damaged ceiling panels and a new piece could be put in. (running the width of the trailer) Result would be only one more seam in the ceiling, with only one more joint trim put over it. Could look totally natural. Dealer repair manager wouldn’t really address my question. Before I knew it a new roof was on the top of the trailer. I again asked about the internal repairs and he said he would have to go to the shop and see what I was talking about. WHAT? The rest of that conversation with him told me he had never even really looked at this trailer. I guess he was going on reports from the men on the floor.


Next day he called and I was not home so my wife talked to him. He told her that they could not repair the trailer like it should be because the ceiling panels were VACUUM SEALED to the Styrofoam and it would completely ruin the trailer if they tried to take that apart. Best they could do was put a strip of ceiling panel over the damaged part and run it the width of the trailer with joint trim over each side of it. There would be bump in the ceiling where the patch ceiling panel was. He was going to run an 18 inch piece the width of the trailer. Said it would not look too bad since the panels were very thin. Or he could run a piece from the front wall to the cabinets over the table and since it would be under the front cabinet, the cabinet would be just little bit lower. This was crazy talk. I went over there. After looking it all over and talking to the shop guys I could see that this trailer was not going to be fixed as good as new, like a car with a fender bender could. No ceiling panels could be removed and replaced. I came up with a plan to run a patch from the cabinet above the bed to the cabinet above the table. But to butt up to the cabinets and not to put it under the cabinets. I said to the repair manger how this should be far less expensive since no cabinets would be removed. He gave a little hint of a smile and said “ya, at least your deductible”. I said all that work not being done should be more savings than that, shouldn’t it? No answer.

Now the real bad stuff. 2 days later he calls and said it was done. Gave me the total and I almost really launched on him. It WAS only $500. less. I told him we would talk later and I sent an email with a carefully worded analysis of the charges as anyone could see it. (Interesting it was almost exactly $500. less, my deductible) He knocked another $ 300. or so off. I went over there to sign the check from the insurance company and took a quick look at it. Came out pretty well considering the circumstances. But it smelled of cigarette smoke. Someone was smoking in it. Wife and I don’t smoke and she is very sensitive to it. The next day when we went to drive it home she smelled it too and nearly flipped.

So now it is home. First thing I did, now that I had a ladder, was to look at the roof. !?!?XTF. My original roof was a TPO (Kinda grey with an orange peel texture) the new roof is a very white rubber roof or EDPM. Looked much thicker also. Found out the dealer just put a new layer of Luan wood panels over the old roof. Same reason, the original is Vacuum Sealed to the Styrofoam. (I think he means glued but not sure) Then they put this other type of roof on. Looking around we found that the cabinet over the stove was taken down, or maybe only partially taken down, and then put back. The workmanship was crappy. Just plain crappy. Trim pieces missing, brown sealant smeared all over the wall and cabinet. The panel between the storage area and the microwave was loose. I could pull on it and see inside the microwave area.

They also fixed two out of three waranatee items. New LED light strip in awning (original had many light burned out) and new power plug because the little blue light stopped working. The TV is missing a audio channel when you use headphones. Only comes out the right ear piece. They didn’t replace that.
So now the questions:

• Our camper now weighs more. Maybe 8 sheets of Luan plywood more. And maybe the rubber weighs more than the original TPO. What to think of this.
• They did far less work than the original estimate. Ya, I got some money back but that wouldn’t even compensate for the de-valuing of our trailer now due to the compromised repair.
• What about our warrantee of the roof. (Our original vs. the replacement) It is a Forest River authorized repair shop.
• The crappy cabinet repair. I guess when they started to take down the cabinetry they discovered how that approach wouldn’t work.
• Any other thoughts. We really felt totally let down. Do you think Forest River cares at his point? Should I bother telling them? I do NOT want to take the trailer back there. BTW. The new trim piece they put on the new ceiling panel didn’t even come from Forest River. They bought it at Lowes Home Improvement and paint matched it.
• Apparently trailers built like ours are un-fixable. Just patchable.

[Witch Doctor]

First sorry to here of all your problems. The new area ceiling looks okay, I would not accept the cabinet work. A child could have done better. As far as your roof, that has a warranty for 10 years. I would send pictures to FR (Rockwood Division) ask for Doug send them to him to show the dealer work and ask them what you should do now. I would also contact your insurance Company that paid the bill and send them the pictures also. they might have something to say about all that also. I guess that is where I would start. I also do not believe that FR would not have trim for your unit, even if they had to buy a new cabinet. I think you can find the FR # on the forum under contacts.

[Evereddie]

To make matters even worse, they fried the heater element in the water heater. We use the breaker to turn it on and off instead of going outside to the switch. I am pretty sure that I turned the breaker off and someone there must have turned it on. But since I'm not 100% sure I'll take the hit on that one. I replaced it already. 10 bucks at Home Depot. Except the new one is shorter than the old one. Same wattage, just shorter. May not heat as fast.

[Herk7769]

Very sorry to hear about your troubles; it can happen to anyone.

For reasons such as this, any future water or structure damage to my camper (provided it is drivable) will get it returned to the factory for repairs regardless of distance.

Those folks have the tools and expertise for a perfect job. From reports of members here, they go the extra mile and have repaired things they noticed while working on the contracted repair, for free.

[Witch Doctor]

Originally Posted by Evereddie

To make matters even worse, they fried the heater element in the water heater. We use the breaker to turn it on and off instead of going outside to the switch. I am pretty sure that I turned the breaker off and someone there must have turned it on. But since I'm not 100% sure I'll take the hit on that one. I replaced it already. 10 bucks at Home Depot. Except the new one is shorter than the old one. Same wattage, just shorter. May not heat as fast.

Attachment 43544

as long as it is the same wattage you should be fine, the length will not heat any faster........

[Witch Doctor]

Originally Posted by herk7769

Very sorry to hear about your troubles; it can happen to anyone.

For reasons such as this, any future water or structure damage to my camper (provided it is drivable) will get it returned to the factory for repairs regardless of distance.

Those folks have the tools and expertise for a perfect job. From reports of members here, they go the extra mile and have repaired things they noticed while working on the contracted repair, for free.

Amen Herk x's 2 on that one......

[Tiggerdad]

Roof warranties are usually 10 to 15 years and cover defective material only. The maker of the material usually will not pay for any labor. The limb through the roof is not covered by any warranty.

[Lloydg]

Originally Posted by Tiggerdad

Roof warranties are usually 10 to 15 years and cover defective material only. The maker of the material usually will not pay for any labor. The limb through the roof is not covered by any warranty.

You make a good point about no labor covered on the 10 to 15 year roof warranty. I'm having a new roof replaced because of woodpecker damage and just the labor is $111/hr for 30 hours. $3333.00! Thank goodness for insurance but I still have $1000 deductible.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Evereddie

To make matters even worse, they fried the heater element in the water heater. We use the breaker to turn it on and off instead of going outside to the switch. I am pretty sure that I turned the breaker off and someone there must have turned it on. But since I'm not 100% sure I'll take the hit on that one. I replaced it already. 10 bucks at Home Depot. Except the new one is shorter than the old one. Same wattage, just shorter. May not heat as fast.

Attachment 43544

I tried to read the writing on the attached photo, put it pixelated when I zoomed in. Make sure it also says 120 volts NOT 220 volts.

A 220 volt element will heat, but only with 1/2 the rated wattage.

[caper]

I had a limb go through my slide roof last year. My dealer replaced roof and even replaced a corner shelve that was damaged. They were able to get a perfect match (style and colour). There is no reason that your dealer could not get the proper trim from FR. My dealer also patched my roof so I could use the trailer til the end of the season. They ordered the parts needed as soon as the insurance company approved the estimate. I was lucky our local dealer has had a lot of business form the insurance company. They have so much respect for the dealership the insurance company does not even send an adjuster to look at the damage.

[Witch Doctor]

Originally Posted by Tiggerdad

Roof warranties are usually 10 to 15 years and cover defective material only. The maker of the material usually will not pay for any labor. The limb through the roof is not covered by any warranty.

This is true but it will not stop his warranty and FR is 10 years and labor if if fails. The roof repair being done by FR dealers will not void his warranty for any other leaks and labor is included on a material roof failure. The dealer is responsible for there repair that they made. That's in my paper work. If the roof fails and you have proof that you cleaned and sealed it yearly per there warranty, it is covered by the manufacturer. You need to have a record of the treatment, that is why my dealer does mine yearly, Records, Records, Records. Read it your warranty paper work.

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by herk7769

I tried to read the writing on the attached photo, put it pixelated when I zoomed in. Make sure it also says 120 volts NOT 220 volts.

A 220 volt element will heat, but only with 1/2 the rated wattage.

Actually, if you 1/2 the voltage you 1/4 the wattage. And conversely if you double the voltage you quadruple the wattage.

[Evereddie]

Originally Posted by Paul M

Actually, if you 1/2 the voltage you 1/4 the wattage. And conversely if you double the voltage you quadruple the wattage.

I did buy the correct one. I know it is suppose to be 120 volts. Plus I got the number from these very forums. So that must be correct, right?
And, I'm an electronic and communications engineer. I wouldn't let that one get by me.

Thanks all for your help.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Paul M

Actually, if you 1/2 the voltage you 1/4 the wattage. And conversely if you double the voltage you quadruple the wattage.

I learn something new every day!
What is the equation for that?

I thought it was P=IE where halving E would halve P...
Did I miss something?

[KyDan]

Originally Posted by herk7769

I learn something new every day!
What is the equation for that?
I thought it was P=IE where halving E would halve P...
Did I miss something?

Nope, if you stick a 240 v heater in a 120v tank you'll get half the
wattage and half the heating power.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by KyDan

Nope, if you stick a 240 v heater in a 120v tank you'll get half the
wattage and half the heating power.

Thanks Dan.

I was beginning to think the dreaded CRS was sneaking up on me again.

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by herk7769

I learn something new every day!
What is the equation for that?

I thought it was P=IE where halving E would halve P...
Did I miss something?

Heat output is a function of voltage and resistance. W=V squared divided by resistance. Lets take a 1000 watt strip heater rated at 100 volts and say it's 10 ohms. 100 sq. = 10,000 / 10 = 1000 W. Now half the voltage to 50. 50 sq = 2500 / 10 = 250. I may be wrong on this and if I am PLEASE someone correct me . I spent close to 30 years in the substation repair field before going inside to actually operate the electric grid. Our rule was " Half the voltage / quarter the wattage". Just like reversing a three phase motor ,simple rules "swap any two".

Paul

[KMP44]

Sounds like its time to find a new dealer. If I was in your shoes, I would also not be too pleased with the insurance company. Sounds like they wrote a check and closed the file. Where were they when the scope of work kept changing and the price was not changing accordingly?

We had 2 insurnace incendents in the last year. On on the old popup and one on the truck after hitting a deer. No claims in 15+ years, then twice in 3 months... But both times, they dealt with the repair shop and paid them directly after I told them where I wanted the work done. Insurance companies don't have nearly as much experience with RV's as cars, but they should actually have somebody looking at the damage and deciding with the repair shop what should be done.

Had the insurance company stayed involved, it might have reduced some of your stress and anxiety in the process. But it also sounds like the dealer didn't do the best work either. I would take the advice from some of the other posts and call FR. See what they say (and get it in writing) about the warranty of the roof and what to do if a problem should occurr in the future. That will be important so you can reduce your worries, and it will be important to try to protect the resale value.

Hope this issue gets puts to rest so you can just go on enjoying the new Rockwood.

[2012WhiteSolera]

Woodpeckers, WOW, I knew those little critters were distructive to dead or weakened trees that had bugs. But, a roof of a camper, what was the draw there. I had one working over a nice tall healthu pine tree, had to wrap the trunk in a tarp to hold him at bay. I think the bugger had ADD or something.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Paul M

Heat output is a function of voltage and resistance. W=V squared divided by resistance. Lets take a 1000 watt strip heater rated at 100 volts and say it's 10 ohms. 100 sq. = 10,000 / 10 = 1000 W. Now half the voltage to 50. 50 sq = 2500 / 10 = 250. I may be wrong on this and if I am PLEASE someone correct me . I spent close to 30 years in the substation repair field before going inside to actually operate the electric grid. Our rule was " Half the voltage / quarter the wattage". Just like reversing a three phase motor ,simple rules "swap any two".

Paul

Like I said, I love to learn something new every day. Thanks Paul, I see now how that was derived. You substituted for I the V=IR or I=V/R in the PIE equation. So you get P=V*V/R

Since R is constant, Power varies by the square of the voltage.

So, a 1000 watt element at 220 volts has a resistance of R=V*V/P or 48.4 ohms.

However, take that same 48.4 ohm heater wire and put 110 volts across it and the wattage output drops to P=V*V/R or 250 watts.

This also has an impact when using the campground's power to run the water heater. When the 120 volt line drops to 105 volts in the summer due to too many air conditioners on at once, your water heater's 1000 watt element won't work near as well.

R=120*120/1000 = 14.4 ohms

Effective Wattage = 105*105/14.4 or 765 watts

Thank You!