RV design ponderings

[JohnD10]

Note by site team: these off-topic and thread hijacks have been moved to their own thread.

Originally Posted by Defiant530

I am sure this has been asked before, why is there not an option for a dinette with a computer station that has the extendable table with chairs ?

I have come to the conclusion that most (if not all) of the RV designers don't own an RV and have never actually been out in one on the road.

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

I have come to the conclusion that most (if not all) of the RV designers don't own an RV and have never actually been out in one on the road.

And what exactly about the post above supports that theory?

The "why don't they do this" or the "We actually do this, but no one orders it, but you can using this option code" part?

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

I have come to the conclusion that most (if not all) of the RV designers don't own an RV and have never actually been out in one on the road.

Originally Posted by bclemens

And what exactly about the post above supports that theory?

My being an active RV'er most of my adult life tells me this.

I'm 58 years old.

Spend six months on the road in an RV then come back and tell us what you think.

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

My being an active RV'er most of my adult life tells me this.

I'm 58 years old.

Spend six months on the road in an RV then come back and tell us what you think.

Yes...but you posted it on THIS particular thread. So you just randomly post that opinion when you feel like it, or was there something particular that made you recall that thought.

And I actually do RV thank you. Started off tent camping as kid, spent a month or so in a truck camper heading out to California, taken my family across parts of Canada, demo all of our new floor plans.

I'm not disagreeing with you...I also don't think most designers RV, it was more a question of why you were reminded of it on that particular thread.

[jkoenig24]

The booth (and "sofa") didn't work for me either. I had both removed by ProCustomInc in Elkhart. PCI had an Amish craftsman come in and take measurements. A few days later, I had two custom base cabinets, a sideboard, a trestle table with an extension leaf all matching the OEM wood. Two standalone dining chairs (with under seat storage) completed the dining room ( a COMFORTABLE swivel recliner replaced the OEM "sofa"). I also had the TERRIBLE OEM Serta mattress replaced.

I have to agree; I SERIOUSLY doubt that whoever designs most RVs NEVER spends any SIGNIFICANT amount of time actually USING and LIVING in the RVs they design. Maybe that's why there are SO MANY RV customizers out there?

[rlh1957]

A Computer station? That would be like placing USB charging ports and AC receptacles where you need them and use them! Not gonna happen unless you do it yourself. I think Engineers, Design Architects and Production People all go to different schools, with different requirements and all use different methods and measuring devices.

[hupmat]

I agree with JohnD. It must be a requirement for the employment of design engineers. Please verify have never owned or used an RV and never will own or use an RV.

[Defiant530]

Originally Posted by rlh1957

A Computer station? That would be like placing USB charging ports and AC receptacles where you need them and use them! Not gonna happen unless you do it yourself. I think Engineers, Design Architects and Production People all go to different schools, with different requirements and all use different methods and measuring devices.

We have receptacles and USB ports that pop up from the counter top in our Tiffin work great but location placement could be better, there is a credenza that that table will slide in or out and the credenza has a cabinet for a printer and a pullout for a keyboard (not very usable though) but like was said earlier their is always custom builders who will build what you want, but it is sure much more convenient to get from the factory as an option. I did not want this post to get out of hand. I was just curious of why it was not a standard option and bclemens answered what i asked and i appreciate it . We Like the DX3 RB and TS but we have to get a hands on look to see if one would work for us storage wise since we are full timers

[CampingGator]

What a tough crowd! Why are there SO many different RV manufacturers, RV types, and then different floor plans in these types and brands? Because we are all different, have different aesthetics, needs, desires, etc. I’ll bet you everyone who orders an RV would love to make changes to suit their tastes, from flooring, cabinetry, accent colors, storage, etc. B. Clemens, you and your crew do a fantastic job and are so involved, even though you don’t have to be. I will probably never purchase a Dynamax, but if I did, I know it would be the best out there!

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by CampingGator

What a tough crowd! Why are there SO many different RV manufacturers, RV types, and then different floor plans in these types and brands? Because we are all different, have different aesthetics, needs, desires, etc. I’ll bet you everyone who orders an RV would love to make changes to suit their tastes, from flooring, cabinetry, accent colors, storage, etc. B. Clemens, you and your crew do a fantastic job and are so involved, even though you don’t have to be. I will probably never purchase a Dynamax, but if I did, I know it would be the best out there!

thank you for that.

lol...yes, these threads sometimes spiral out of control. OP had a good question. Question was answered, (I think and according to the OP) in a satisfactory manner. Should have been about 3-4 posts on this one and rolled off the board to be found in a search later. Bu instead, someone reads the original post without reading the rest and wants to stoke the flames of negativity. It's today's version of "people watching" I guess.

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by bclemens

thank you for that.

lol...yes, these threads sometimes spiral out of control. OP had a good question. Question was answered, (I think and according to the OP) in a satisfactory manner. Should have been about 3-4 posts on this one and rolled off the board to be found in a search later. Bu instead, someone reads the original post without reading the rest and wants to stoke the flames of negativity. It's today's version of "people watching" I guess.

Really, BC...

This is what these forums are all about!

Conversation!



Sure, you have more insight and experience than most of the RV manufacturing people out there, and that is good.

And I am glad that you are one of the very few in the industry that actually visit and participate in these forums.

That being said, would you have designed an RV where the TV antenna crank-up handle is in the middle of the aisle where you hit your head on it every time you get in bed or need to open the closet door?

And speaking of TV antennas, how about mounting them on the RV's roof right next to the AC unit so it can't receive any signals if they happen to be coming from that direction through the AC unit?

Or put the sewer tank drain outs UNDER a slide out?

Or maybe have the awning mounted in such a way that when it (awning) is out it rests on top of the entrance door or the corners of a slide out?

Or perhaps electrical outlets that never seem to be were we really need them?

Or...well, that list is endless!

That is all I was saying.

And, it was a valid point as far as RV engineers keeping up with the times and placing stuff in RV's that meet current RV'ers needs without having to special order everything or bash our foreheads on something when trying to do something else...

The hope is that people in your position see what we chat about and take it back to the powers that be and let them know our thoughts!

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

Really, BC...

This is what these forums are all about!

Conversation!



Sure, you have more insight and experience than most of the RV manufacturing people out there, and that is good.

And I am glad that you are one of the very few in the industry that actually visit and participate in these forums.

That being said, would you have designed an RV where the TV antenna crank-up handle is in the middle of the aisle where you hit your head on it every time you get in bed or need to open the closet door?

And speaking of TV antennas, how about mounting them on the RV's roof right next to the AC unit so it can't receive any signals if they happen to be coming from that direction through the AC unit?

Or put the sewer tank drain outs UNDER a slide out?

Or maybe have the awning mounted in such a way that when it (awning) is out it rests on top of the entrance door or the corners of a slide out?

Or perhaps electrical outlets that never seem to be were we really need them?

Or...well, that list is endless!

That is all I was saying.

And, it was a valid point as far as RV engineers keeping up with the times and placing stuff in RV's that meet current RV'ers needs without having to special order everything or bash our foreheads on something when trying to do something else...

The hope is that people in your position see what we chat about and take it back to the powers that be and let them know our thoughts!

I'm not saying you aren't right or that opinion isn't valid...just wondering why it was piled on to a thread that really didn't have anything to do with that. THAT thread, should exist on its own. maybe a "Why did they do this..." thread or "Things that make you go hmmmm"

[Delco Bobby]

Originally Posted by bclemens

thank you for that.



lol...yes, these threads sometimes spiral out of control. OP had a good question. Question was answered, (I think and according to the OP) in a satisfactory manner. Should have been about 3-4 posts on this one and rolled off the board to be found in a search later. Bu instead, someone reads the original post without reading the rest and wants to stoke the flames of negativity. It's today's version of "people watching" I guess.

Seems to happen more often recently . And not all own Dynamax products and are familiar with same.

Seems since The Big Cheese is mostly the only factory rep in the forums people direct their pent up vents towards him.

[myredracer]

I would add that they also never involve females in the design process...

-What? No place for a garbage can and you have to hang a plastic bag on a stove knob?
- What? No place to put shoes at the entry door? No problem, just hop over them.
- What? No space on the kitchen counter for anything bigger than a coffee cup?
- What? No place to hang a jacket?

I could go on but am sure ya'll get the drift... The heck with quality and functionality as long as all the bling in a unit on an RV showroom floor gets sales.

Oh, and I would also say that the folks that write the codes and standards that apply to RVs (the few that do exist like the NEC for ex.) should be required to use an RV for a min. of one full season and see the cr*p work and issues that are out there.

[Decon Blue]

A “why did they do this thread”? How about a “why do they hire inept incapable uncaring workers to build these rv’s“. How about a reasonable warranty, like mabee the auto manufacturers supply ? How about dealers that are required to take a lie detector test before being able sell to the public. Or mabee how about requiring dealers to do warranty work in a timely manner on ANY make it sells, weather it’s bought from them or not. The list could go in and on, the end result to a better, properly built RV will be when either folks stop accepting the junk being produced or Overseas manufacturers start putting the corner cutting US RV factory’s on notice and get in the RV business.

[pgandw]

I guess I'm in disagreement. Yes, there are design faux pas. But many of these rants are about design choices based on a personal use perspective.

For example - electrical outlet location - what electrical designer knows you well enough to know in advance where you are going to want your outlets located? Did your home builder read your mind and place all the outlets where you now want them? Mine sure didn't. We put a partial kitchen into our finished basement to serve the basement bedrooms and family room. I carefully studied the latest electrical codes, and our existing electrical distribution before I ran the wiring. I put the microwave GFCI outlet where I thought the microwave would go. But once the cabinets were up, DW changed her mind on where the microwave was going. Ended up plugged into the non-GFCI circuit required for the garbage disposal. A design faux pas?

How many RVs are specifically designed for full timers vs designed for long weekend camping? Design considerations are considerably different. As an engineer, I would tell you up front, that the RV I design for full timers would be quite different, and cost considerably more than an RV designed for weekend camping, which would be very different from a trailerable hunting lodge. As a full timer, which one will you buy? 90% will go for the cheaper weekender and "adapt" it for full timing (or hunting lodge). And then complain because the cheap RV doesn't really meet their expectations and desires.

To be honest, having bought 2 houses in the past 10 years, I walk in and see the floor plan in most newer stock houses (I can't/couldn't afford custom design and construction) - and I wonder, "What were the architect and builders thinking?" I see a stairwell to a below-grade basement that is only 3ft wide, and reverses itself halfway down, and say to myself, "It will be hell to get a couch, or even a full mattress up or down that stairwell. No wonder the seller wants to sell me the existing basement furniture."

My point is that as experienced full timers, you have experiences and expectations that newbie weekenders do not. As with boats, if I build an RV with all the storage and special-use areas you know you want, I sacrifice the number of sleeping spaces I can advertise. And won't compare as well to my competition except to knowledgeable full timers like you. And as important as you and I think you are, you make up the minority, not the majority of RV buyers.

just my thoughts
Fred W

[Delco Bobby]

Originally Posted by pgandw

I guess I'm in disagreement. Yes, there are design faux pas. But many of these rants are about design choices based on a personal use perspective.

For example - electrical outlet location - what electrical designer knows you well enough to know in advance where you are going to want your outlets located? Did your home builder read your mind and place all the outlets where you now want them? Mine sure didn't. We put a partial kitchen into our finished basement to serve the basement bedrooms and family room. I carefully studied the latest electrical codes, and our existing electrical distribution before I ran the wiring. I put the microwave GFCI outlet where I thought the microwave would go. But once the cabinets were up, DW changed her mind on where the microwave was going. Ended up plugged into the non-GFCI circuit required for the garbage disposal. A design faux pas?

How many RVs are specifically designed for full timers vs designed for long weekend camping? Design considerations are considerably different. As an engineer, I would tell you up front, that the RV I design for full timers would be quite different, and cost considerably more than an RV designed for weekend camping, which would be very different from a trailerable hunting lodge. As a full timer, which one will you buy? 90% will go for the cheaper weekender and "adapt" it for full timing (or hunting lodge). And then complain because the cheap RV doesn't really meet their expectations and desires.

To be honest, having bought 2 houses in the past 10 years, I walk in and see the floor plan in most newer stock houses (I can't/couldn't afford custom design and construction) - and I wonder, "What were the architect and builders thinking?" I see a stairwell to a below-grade basement that is only 3ft wide, and reverses itself halfway down, and say to myself, "It will be hell to get a couch, or even a full mattress up or down that stairwell. No wonder the seller wants to sell me the existing basement furniture."

My point is that as experienced full timers, you have experiences and expectations that newbie weekenders do not. As with boats, if I build an RV with all the storage and special-use areas you know you want, I sacrifice the number of sleeping spaces I can advertise. And won't compare as well to my competition except to knowledgeable full timers like you. And as important as you and I think you are, you make up the minority, not the majority of RV buyers.

just my thoughts
Fred W

Well said.

[Mr Towed]

Here's what bugs me the most about MY trailer.
In the kitchen there is a stove and a sink with absolutely ZERO counter space, the fridge is right next to the sink. Then, on the other side of the fridge is like a big "TV counter" for the back bunks. I would happily forgo the stupid TV counter to actually have some counter space in the kitchen. Of course moving the fridge is not possible due to all the exterior protrusions, if it was a house it wouldn't be a big deal to slide the fridge over a few feet.

And then there's the sideways sink that you can't even wash your hands in. That, at least, I can fix... I think.

[retiredcamper47]

Sounds like some people need to spend more time on the selection of their RV before buying. The wife and I researched about 6 months on our unit before purchasing. Just saying........

Bob

[Mr. Dan]

Originally Posted by retiredcamper47

Sounds like some people need to spend more time on the selection of their RV before buying. The wife and I researched about 6 months on our unit before purchasing. Just saying........

Bob

Yes, indeed! This ^^^
We searched the internet to find what we wanted. Then we studied the floor plans and specifications. Then we climbed all over and all through a lot model. When we found everything we wanted with enough electrical outlets and counter space and storage, etc., we bought one.