So Frustrating

[CampingGator]

It’s so frustrating to try to find a place to camp for the weekend this time of year in Florida. It’s our beautiful time of year to camp. We work full time, so weekends are the time we have to get out and enjoy camping, but with all the snow birds, we can’t fine an opening anywhere close. I don’t want to hear about those who spend money in the state or help with taxes. I just want to be able to get out when it’s not 95 degrees and humid.

[A32Deuce]

That's why I'm in Mississippi!

[BandJCarm]

I'll turn it back on you. How come we snowbirds can't find any sites for the winter in Florida, and none at a semi-decent price? SO frustrating! LOL

Then, the same thing happens "Up Nawth" when we turn into Sunbirds.

The "states" are "united", I thought. No one at state borders stopping me to ask for my passport.

And yes, this is tongue in cheek.

There are now about a half million RV's being made every year. Record numbers. There are 10,000 of us retiring every single day!!! But there are not very many new campgrounds or campsites being made. My biggest struggle is finding campsites as much as a year (or more at times) in advance.

I suggest you simply book your favorite campsite for next year, right now. It can be done, as long as you're not monthly. I'm in a new campground, and they are booked solid for monthly's........but they always have one or two daily sites available at the daily rate.

[retireearly]

We need to be making investments in new parks and upgraded parks/campgrounds but that isn't on anyone's priority list. Parks are historically underfunded at national and state levels even though there is positive return on investment from tourism dollars.

[Iwritecode]

It’s frustrating to try to find a place to camp for the weekend this time of year in Illinois as well.

Mostly because it's 20 degrees out and there's still a few inches of snow on the ground.

[BandJCarm]

This is a semi-serious comment. I think if you own 10 acres of ground within 2 miles of any major highway...........heck, within 2 miles of any paved road!!.........you can open a campground and make a decent living.

I see them everywhere. Some amaze me. But they are ALL FULL!!

And one campground I am trying to book for May has a new website. They now have TWO rates.........one is "Pay me in full NOW, non refundable, for the cheapest rate. OR pay me more NOW, with a rate that is sort of refundable".

I am afraid that is going to catch on. Sad. Hotels started it, now campgrounds......

[Flybob]

Basic Economics 101 Supply and demand. RV sales have skyrocketed in the last 2-3 years as the economy has improved. Unfortunately Campground construction has not grown at the same pace. As with most any economic trend, this will cycle the other way eventually. Not a solution, but rather an explanation.

[Garth Stoneburner]

i own an RV Park. We are full, year around, with a waiting list. We have the land and money to add more spaces, but unfortunately government regulations prevent us from doing this. Even if you could get by the regulations, the high cost of conforming to these regulations forces space rental cost through the roof. This is why few new RV parks are being built in Arizona.

[BandJCarm]

Originally Posted by Garth Stoneburner

i own an RV Park. We are full, year around, with a waiting list. We have the land and money to add more spaces, but unfortunately government regulations prevent us from doing this. Even if you could get by the regulations, the high cost of conforming to these regulations forces space rental cost through the roof. This is why few new RV parks are being built in Arizona.

That is very interesting! Thank you for posting.

Can you explain further about the regulations? Who imposes, the EPA? Who? And what are they? Don't want to be nosy, but this interests me as to why there is little expansion going on, considering the vast quantities of campers nowadays (income to be made at parks)???

[clarkbre]

Originally Posted by CampingGator

It’s so frustrating to try to find a place to camp for the weekend this time of year in Florida.....

Hitch up and head north. We have lots of openings up here this time of year....


I do totally agree with BandJCarm and Flybob. The market is saturated with new (and used) trailer sales in the U.S. I (mid-thirties with a wife and two kids) have helped build the demographic of the family that wants to travel with their own comforts, disconnect, find a little adventure and see the world behind my windshield.

BandJCarm and Flybob have hit the nail on the head with the lack of campgrounds in good supply. While the above weather report is supposed to be sarcastic and funny, the reality is that we experience the same issues trying to to book for the late spring, summer and early fall. As of today, most state parks are completely booked for the summer. One of the KOA's that's shut down over the winter starts taking reservations on Feb 1. I called at about 3:00 PM that day and they were able to squeeze me in for July 2-6.

With the ability to book campgrounds becoming less, it wouldn't be crazy for an entrepreneur to buy land and host campers.

"If you build it, he will come!"

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by BandJCarm

This is a semi-serious comment. I think if you own 10 acres of ground within 2 miles of any major highway...........heck, within 2 miles of any paved road!!.........you can open a campground and make a decent living.

I see them everywhere. Some amaze me. But they are ALL FULL!!

And one campground I am trying to book for May has a new website. They now have TWO rates.........one is "Pay me in full NOW, non refundable, for the cheapest rate. OR pay me more NOW, with a rate that is sort of refundable".

I am afraid that is going to catch on. Sad. Hotels started it, now campgrounds......

It really depends on the location. We have half a dozen campgrounds around us and most of them have sites available every single day of the camping season. I know of one in particular that is never more than half full even on holidays. Although I think it may have to do with the river that runs through it. It has a tendency to completely flood the campground at least once a year on average.

I read one time that the best way to become a millionaire as a CG owner is to start with 2 million.

[Garth Stoneburner]

Mostly it is the septic regulations. The state of Arizona decided that septic systems are putting too much nitrates into the ground. So we have to install a nitrate reducing filtration system. This is an above ground system, has alarms, pumps, filters, extra tanks, and requires a third party maintenance contract before they will sign off on the permit. AND, I have to bring my existing septic system, which is running flawlessly, up to current regulations. This regulation alone basically triples the cost of a standard septic system. Nitrates are a naturally occurring element. Our soil requires it to grow food. Farmers here in Arizona plant winter crops SPECIFICALLY TO ADD NITRATES TO THE SOIL TO ENHANCE CROPS.

[BandJCarm]

Originally Posted by Garth Stoneburner

Mostly it is the septic regulations. The state of Arizona decided that septic systems are putting too much nitrates into the ground. So we have to install a nitrate reducing filtration system. This is an above ground system, has alarms, pumps, filters, extra tanks, and requires a third party maintenance contract before they will sign off on the permit. AND, I have to bring my existing septic system, which is running flawlessly, up to current regulations. This regulation alone basically triples the cost of a standard septic system. Nitrates are a naturally occurring element. Our soil requires it to grow food. Farmers here in Arizona plant winter crops SPECIFICALLY TO ADD NITRATES TO THE SOIL TO ENHANCE CROPS.

Thank you. I suspected it had to do with septic.

Regulations are killing us. But that's an opinion.

I wonder if a similar issue occurs in other states.

[Go UK]

I can't imagine the headaches of opening up a park. I wouldn't think anyone living in the area would want one, then approaching the town ship and trying to get permits to run all the electrical and the dumping stations, board of health for food sales. I would think it would takes years for all the permits and you would have to purchase the land before you even started your nightmare trek into the bureaucracy.

[Cabinfever97]

Originally Posted by Garth Stoneburner

i own an RV Park. We are full, year around, with a waiting list. We have the land and money to add more spaces, but unfortunately government regulations prevent us from doing this. Even if you could get by the regulations, the high cost of conforming to these regulations forces space rental cost through the roof. This is why few new RV parks are being built in Arizona.

Anyone who has never operated any size business in todays US do not realize the mess and expense of regulations that need to be navigated all the time. I am a very small landscaping company here in PA, I have 12 different licenses and registrations needed to do business. One problem is many regulations are so complex the people in charge of enforcing don't even know them all. It can be very frustrating just trying to be compliant and legal.

[Cypressloser]

Originally Posted by Garth Stoneburner

i own an RV Park. We are full, year around, with a waiting list. We have the land and money to add more spaces, but unfortunately government regulations prevent us from doing this. Even if you could get by the regulations, the high cost of conforming to these regulations forces space rental cost through the roof. This is why few new RV parks are being built in Arizona.

Welcome to the forum

You are exactly right, the steps and time it takes to get the necessary permits, having the site rezoned and getting the infrastructure in place can easily cost $50,000,000 and much more. It is nearly impossible to have sufficient electrical service installed unless it was in an industrial park, not even an on site septic system gets permitted in many jurisdictions anymore.
Not to mention the bank's reluctance to finance a project like a privately owned campground.

[cavie]

this is why I keep mine in on a seasonal site in the Berkshires and drive to it every year.

[Go UK]

The more I think about. A bunch of people whining about their sites not be level, all the environmental issues about drainage. 50 years ago your land, you had a lot more say in what you could do with it. I was looking at industrial property a couple of months ago until I was told I would need an environmental impact study. I getting worked up, gotta go.

[Scrapper]

Most regulations are put in place so that others can make money on your endeavors. It's like someone sees your making money and they go to the higher ups and say help me come up with a way to take some of your prosperity.

9 years ago the county I live in passed a regulation that every private septic system had to be pumped out and inspected every 3 years. The guy pumps out your tank and looks inside with a flash light and says all is good. Then he takes the pumpings and spreads it on a neighboring farmers field. With approximately 10,771 septic systems in the county, pumped out every 3 years at a cost of $150+ per pump out, that's $538,550 per year. These numbers are from the county website.

Can you imagine how large septic systems a campground needs compared to the average home. There are 10 campgrounds in the county with a private dump septic system with a drain field which needs pumped out every year. The CG I'm at has 2 10,000 gallon septic tanks with fields covering 17,500 sq ft and gets pumped out and inspected 2 times per season by a third party.

There's a lot of money going to a third party.
I'm not even going into the electric part of a CG.

[CampingGator]

Originally Posted by retireearly

We need to be making investments in new parks and upgraded parks/campgrounds but that isn't on anyone's priority list. Parks are historically underfunded at national and state levels even though there is positive return on investment from tourism dollars.

I know. If I won big in a lottery (I rarely play) I would build a new RV park in my area, out in the country, but just off I-75. There would be some simple pull-through spots for travelers needing a spot for the night, some for snow birds during the winter, and then some reserved for up to one week for folks from Georgia or Florida only. That would help a little bit.