Spent 3 days trying to figure out why my camper was shocking me

[lugoismad]

My camper has been shocking me when you touch any of the window or door frames when you are standing outside. It only seemed to do it at home, but I wasn't 100% sure I'd noticed it when camping either since it only started happening this year.

Spent 2 days going through all the wiring in the camper, checking and verifying everything was right. I even added a new ground wire from the ground bus on the power panel to the frame, and then from the frame to the aluminum skin, just trying to rule out maybe a bad ground. That still didn't fix it.

I verified my 30amp hookup on the back of my garage was wired right. Then checked my garage subpanel. It was all right too.

Then I got the crap shocked out of me by the neutral wire when the breaker was off to my 30amp plug when I was putting it back together. Thats when I realized it had to be something with the house.

Dug deeper, and went and bought a circuit tester at the hardware store.

It ended up being a completely separate circuit. We added 2 20 amp circuits for my home office onto my garage subpanel since the main panel was full of breakers already. I'd previously been using and old knob and tube circuit for my home PC which wasn't ideal.

I plugged the circuit tester in, in the garage and noticed when I turned off the breaker that fed that circuit it would switch from correct to the ground/hot being swapped. WTF.

Turns out, one of the circuits that were added is somehow backfeeding onto the neutral line. Its a very simple circuit, it goes to a single light in my master closet and then a 20 amp plug in my office.

I called the handyman who helped me add it. He said he's seen plugs be bad before and short out. He's coming over tomorrow to look into it, since at this point I feel I'm in a little over my head. But, with that 20 amp circuit turned off, my camper no longer shocks me, so thats definitely it. The crazy thing was, its not the same circuit as my camper!

I THINK what might be happening is the the light in the closet that its powering is a fluorescent. I think the transformer in it might be bad and backfeeding high voltage onto neutral. Because it doesn't feel like a mains 120 volt shock, its more prickly and doesn't hurt as much to touch it. Which makes me think very high voltage, low amperage.

Anyways, just a cautionary tale, it may not be your camper or even the circuit that its on thats causing the problem! It was a totally unrelated circuit that I had inspected and everything. Blows my mind.

[myxkp]

I had a call on a bedroom light switch that turned off the 240 volt a/c unit, roof squirrels had chewed the insulation creating a feedback loop. Got to take it like baby steps - small and one at a time.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by lugoismad

My camper has been shocking me when you touch any of the window or door frames when you are standing outside. It only seemed to do it at home, but I wasn't 100% sure I'd noticed it when camping either since it only started happening this year.

Spent 2 days going through all the wiring in the camper, checking and verifying everything was right. I even added a new ground wire from the ground bus on the power panel to the frame, and then from the frame to the aluminum skin, just trying to rule out maybe a bad ground. That still didn't fix it.

I verified my 30amp hookup on the back of my garage was wired right. Then checked my garage subpanel. It was all right too.

Then I got the crap shocked out of me by the neutral wire when the breaker was off to my 30amp plug when I was putting it back together. Thats when I realized it had to be something with the house.

Dug deeper, and went and bought a circuit tester at the hardware store.

It ended up being a completely separate circuit. We added 2 20 amp circuits for my home office onto my garage subpanel since the main panel was full of breakers already. I'd previously been using and old knob and tube circuit for my home PC which wasn't ideal.

I plugged the circuit tester in, in the garage and noticed when I turned off the breaker that fed that circuit it would switch from correct to the ground/hot being swapped. WTF.

Turns out, one of the circuits that were added is somehow backfeeding onto the neutral line. Its a very simple circuit, it goes to a single light in my master closet and then a 20 amp plug in my office.

I called the handyman who helped me add it. He said he's seen plugs be bad before and short out. He's coming over tomorrow to look into it, since at this point I feel I'm in a little over my head. But, with that 20 amp circuit turned off, my camper no longer shocks me, so thats definitely it. The crazy thing was, its not the same circuit as my camper!

I THINK what might be happening is the the light in the closet that its powering is a fluorescent. I think the transformer in it might be bad and backfeeding high voltage onto neutral. Because it doesn't feel like a mains 120 volt shock, its more prickly and doesn't hurt as much to touch it. Which makes me think very high voltage, low amperage.

Anyways, just a cautionary tale, it may not be your camper or even the circuit that its on thats causing the problem! It was a totally unrelated circuit that I had inspected and everything. Blows my mind.

Are you 100% sure your 30 amp plug is wired 120 volt? Do you have the hot and neutral connected to the proper Blades?

[lugoismad]

Originally Posted by myxkp

I had a call on a bedroom light switch that turned off the 240 volt a/c unit, roof squirrels had chewed the insulation creating a feedback loop. Got to take it like baby steps - small and one at a time.

I'm just so glad it didn't fry anything. Especially since its sending voltage down neutral, I can't believe it didn't fry something that was on the other 120 volt leg that would be out of phase with it.

[lugoismad]

Originally Posted by cavie

Are you 100% sure your 30 amp plug is wired 120 volt? Do you have the hot and neutral connected to the proper Blades?

Yes, I am absolutely 100% sure. I had my handyman check it, I've checked it a half dozen times, I've even had my wife come out and sanity check it for me. I am absolutely 100% sure. Plus, the problem goes away when I turn my office circuit off, that I spoke about.

[lugoismad]

Originally Posted by cavie

Are you 100% sure your 30 amp plug is wired 120 volt? Do you have the hot and neutral connected to the proper Blades?

I even asked my handyman (He's been doing this a long time, he does electrical work for the county including all of our fair ground buildings) about it. He said he did one time come across a 30 amp plug that had the hot and neutral markings backwards.

I figured it couldn't hurt to check, so I even took it back out and wired it backwards. Problem still happened, since the circuit that was backfeeding neutral was also backfeeding ground since they are tied together in the main panel. And, when I did that all of the GFCI outlets in the camper tripped and wouldn't un-trip. Obviously I swapped it right back. At that point I was willing to try anything. I was starting to think maybe the 30amp plug on the side of the camper was somehow wired backwards.

[Gumpster808]

Originally Posted by lugoismad

I even asked my handyman (He's been doing this a long time, he does electrical work for the county including all of our fair ground buildings) about it. He said he did one time come across a 30 amp plug that had the hot and neutral markings backwards.

I figured it couldn't hurt to check, so I even took it back out and wired it backwards. Problem still happened, since the circuit that was backfeeding neutral was also backfeeding ground since they are tied together in the main panel. And, when I did that all of the GFCI outlets in the camper tripped and wouldn't un-trip. Obviously I swapped it right back. At that point I was willing to try anything. I was starting to think maybe the 30amp plug on the side of the camper was somehow wired backwards.

Had something similar in last house - plugged in something outside in the 110 outlet - wouldn't turn on.

Got out multimeter and checked the voltage at the outlet - got 220 - WTH?

Checked breaker - on and good.

Started tracing the feed to the outside circuit and it ran through downstairs powder room.

Here is where the fun started...

Turns out they ran two circuits and junctioned through the powder room - with the movement of the switch etc. over time the common came out of the outlet - leaving two hot sides only giving 220 to everything downstream.

Glad i didn't blow anything up plugging in outside.

Circuit testers / multimeters / EMS always come in handy.

Isn't electricity fun

[Reverse_snowbird]

You might want to pick up one of the portable surge protector/electrical power management systems.

https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-I...paddicttext-20

It checks for reverse polarity, open ground, and lots of other conditions. It won't let electricity through if there is a problem. We use it with an 120 to 30 amp outlet adapter when hooked up to household current.

[lugoismad]

Originally Posted by Gumpster808

Had something similar in last house - plugged in something outside in the 110 outlet - wouldn't turn on.

Got out multimeter and checked the voltage at the outlet - got 220 - WTH?

Checked breaker - on and good.

Started tracing the feed to the outside circuit and it ran through downstairs powder room.

Here is where the fun started...

Turns out they ran two circuits and junctioned through the powder room - with the movement of the switch etc. over time the common came out of the outlet - leaving two hot sides only giving 220 to everything downstream.

Glad i didn't blow anything up plugging in outside.

Circuit testers / multimeters / EMS always come in handy.

Isn't electricity fun

LOL, for sure.

Whats crazy is, I was reading 120 volts between hot and neutral on the 30 amp plug.

[Gumpster808]

Originally Posted by Reverse_snowbird

You might want to pick up one of the portable surge protector/electrical power management systems.

https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-I...paddicttext-20

It checks for reverse polarity, open ground, and lots of other conditions. It won't let electricity through if there is a problem. We use it with an 120 to 30 amp outlet adapter when hooked up to household current.

I would recommend the Progressive as well. Got the portable and last year saved us - was hooking up electrical items outside under the awning - plugged in and wife said "what happened to the power".

Looked at the code on the EMS - turns out the power strip i was using to plug items in outside as needed had a bad ground. Fed all the way back from the camper side to the EMS that was plugged in directly to the power pole and tripped it off instantly.

So not only issues with campground power handled - also handles things on camper side as well.

Well worth the investment.

[jkoenig24]

BUY and READ Mike Sokol's book "No Shock Zone". It's available as an eBook or hard copy at Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L2DWBD8...ng=UTF8&btkr=1

It'll be the BEST money you'll spend on your RV.

[D W]

Unless you're dead set on laying down some C-Notes and lining Jeff Bezos' pockets, you can pick up one of these circuit testers for around $10 at any hardware store, or Walmart:

[jvalich]

Originally Posted by jkoenig24

BUY and READ Mike Sokol's book "No Shock Zone". It's available as an eBook or hard copy at Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L2DWBD8...ng=UTF8&btkr=1

It'll be the BEST money you'll spend on your RV.

x2. First book I bought after purchasing the coach. Also purchased a non-contact voltage tester and the DW got me a new multi meter dedicated to the coach for last years Christmas present.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by lugoismad

LOL, for sure.

Whats crazy is, I was reading 120 volts between hot and neutral on the 30 amp plug.

Well, yes, but you didn't tell us the other two measurements:
Hot--Neutral = 120vac
Hot--Ground = ??
Neutral--Ground = ??

Cavie, check me out on this part...
The ground wire is bare. If your electrician is sloppy, the bare ground wire could come loose from the new office outlet and wind up touching the brass (hot) terminal as the outlet is stuffed back into the box.

Now you have a ground wire at 120vac, same as the hot. That is to say, the ground wire is at 120 vac relative to the damp earth you were standing on when you touched the camper. (Should be 0v relative to the black hot wire, but might be 240, depending on whether the office outlet is on the same phase or different from the RV outlet.)

So my first step is to open the panel and every switch and outlet box on the affected circuits and check to see how the wires are "dressed."

Larry

[Flatop]

Call a licensed electrical contractor, not a handy man.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

Well, yes, but you didn't tell us the other two measurements:
Hot--Neutral = 120vac
Hot--Ground = ??
Neutral--Ground = ??

Cavie, check me out on this part...
The ground wire is bare. If your electrician is sloppy, the bare ground wire could come loose from the new office outlet and wind up touching the brass (hot) terminal as the outlet is stuffed back into the box.

Now you have a ground wire at 120vac, same as the hot. That is to say, the ground wire is at 120 vac relative to the damp earth you were standing on when you touched the camper. (Should be 0v relative to the black hot wire, but might be 240, depending on whether the office outlet is on the same phase or different from the RV outlet.)

So my first step is to open the panel and every switch and outlet box on the affected circuits and check to see how the wires are "dressed."

Larry

Yes that can and does happen. 99.5% of the time the breaker will trip when that happens. You can very well have a hot skin condition in an RV but that requires something to have happened to the ground connection in the trailer, or between the trailer and the pedestal, or the pedestal its self so there is no place for it to go. It does happen. Years ago Dryers and ranges used the ground wire as a return for the neutral. 3 wire system. They finally realized that things would happen that let return neutral voltage was getting on the bare neutral/ground. 3 wire system with 220. Now they make you install a 4 wire system and the ground is nothing but a safe return to the panel to trip the breaker and avoid having live voltage on the bare ground. Hence the 4 wire 50 amp service. Bare wires aren't supposed to have voltage but **** happens hope this helps