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Old 11-11-2018, 10:33 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by jeffkirk View Post
I agree with most of what you say but I've looked at a lot of tires and never seen the max speed listed on the sidewall. Max inflation? Yes. Max load? week of manufacture? Yes. Never seen Speed rating on sidewall. Have to go elsewhere to find that.
Many tires have the speed rating on the sidewall.
Granted it isn't listed as MPH but often as a letter. (N or L for example)
Yes, you have to know what the letter means but technically, it is on the sidewall.

See this link for speed rating markings.
https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tiretec....jsp?techid=35
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Old 11-11-2018, 11:09 PM   #162
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Speed letters or molded speed numbers such as 75 MPH are not required on ST tires. However, when there are none present the tire reverts the 65 MPH as approved by the TRA.

Speed letters are very common on all current ST tires. The appropriate and most common way for the tire manufacturer to display them is with a speed letter following the tire’s service description. In the following link, the service description is 129/125 L. The L is the speed letter for 75 MPH.

100_3424 - iRV2.com RV Photo Gallery

The most common speed letters found on ST tires are; J=62 MPH – K=68 MPH – L= 75 MPH – M=81 MPH and N=87 MPH. There is no speed letter for 65 MPH.

There is always a tire manufacturer a little different and will simply show a tire’s speed rating as 75 MPH right on its sidewall.
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Old 11-12-2018, 06:11 AM   #163
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I hate to be patronizing and/or blunt. All six of your questions “should’ve, could’ve, would’ve” been asked and answered BY YOU/YOURSELF before you purchased your 5th Wheel. The Latin term “Caveat Emptor”, (buyer beware), applies wholeheartedly to an industry with the least amount of regulation in our country today. (Please know I learned the hard way too.)

Were you aware that for the most part there is no nationally recognized travel trailer or 5th Wheel built with any more structural integrity than its competive brand? That profit margins are so slim, wherever a corner can be cut… it is? This includes suspension, axels, wheels, and tires! Otherwise, for a great majority, buying an RV would be cost prohibitive! (My wife is a "Hoosier" from Bremen, IN. Her varied uncles and cousins have retired from or continue working in the RV industry, Elkhart, Goshen, Wakarusa, etc.)

Tires are cheaper when purchased in China. This includes shipping and handling charges getting them to the States. The tires are warehoused awaiting distribution to the various factories. They are installed onto RV's according to the speed of the production line and the exacting specifications of travel trailer and/or 5th Wheel axel and load ratings—no more, no less. These RV’s are then shipped to their respective dealership. How long have the RV’s sat on the lot? Why is this important? An informed consumer will know that an “ST” tire has roughly a five year life expectancy for safe travel. So, there has been a minimum of 18 months since a majority of these Chinese tires were manufactured and now on the RV you've just purchased. "ST" tires are purposefully built to accommodate travel trailers and 5th Wheels—(and boat trailers) with a finite life expectancy regardless of how much use they’ve seen, degenerating from the inside out. Were you aware of this? (Visit Tires , supplier of the largest RV manufactures, both Thor Industries and Berkshire Hathaway, {Warren Buffet}, also throughout northern Indiana.) Hereto, is the dealer or salesman responsible for better informing you?


So… did you look at the information mandated to be on the side of every tire sold in the United States before embarking on your trip? Included is date of manufacture! There is the “Service Description”! This tells you the LOAD INDEX, maximum load indicated by the speed symbol, the SPEED SYMBOL, indicating maximum speed for the tire given its load. So, is the dealership responsible for going into such detail with you? Whose responsibility is it to take your 5th Wheel to the nearest truck stop and weigh in before embarking on your trip? (Do you know what your Gross Combined Vehicle Weight is?) Can you state with certainty how close you were to the placarded weight limits of your 5th Wheel?

At some point the consumer has to take responsibility. (Last week I buy a new Ford F150. I go to the gravel pit, load it with two tons of gravel before heading down the road. The tires blow, the axel breaks, and the transmission explodes. Do I blame the dealer? The salesman?.)

In my instance, the knowledge I gained was getting rid of my remaining four tires, upgrading to 16" wheels, and obtaining the largest Goodyear Endurance Tire, (highest load rating), that would fit the confines of my 5th Wheel. Why Goodyear Endurance? It is the only "ST" tire made in the United States. For me it has a "conditional" warranty" from manufacturing defects good from any Goodyear tire distributor around the nation. (And too, these tires enhanced the stability of my 5th Wheel negating unnecessary expenditure on suspension modifications originally suggested.) Would an astute consumer balk at this $2700.00 increase to the sales invoice? The uninformed... yes, just like I did. Too much reliance on somebody else! This cost me an additional $1100.00 in repairs to my 5th Wheel as well.

There is a wealth of information ahead of you should you want to take it upon yourself to learn. Every day after two years I learn something I didn’t know before. Yesterday it was how the use of fabric softener, (Downey), kills the working bacteria in recreational parks septic systems. After research, we now use Calgon water softener.

Happier Travels.

George G. Fries
Great post!
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Old 11-12-2018, 07:05 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Airdale View Post
Speed letters or molded speed numbers such as 75 MPH are not required on ST tires. However, when there are none present the tire reverts the 65 MPH as approved by the TRA.

China made ST tires do have to have the speed/load rating molded on the tire or they would lose their tariff exemption from 2015.

https://enforcement.trade.gov/downlo...nal-061215.pdf


There is talk with the new upcoming tire tariffs to include the ST tires, which China produces 90% of.


http://www.tirebusiness.com/article/...ncluding-tires


If that happens, then this may make the Goodyear Endurance even more in demand..... which will also drive it's prices up.
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Old 11-12-2018, 07:32 AM   #165
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More then likely they will start branding their tires with a country with no tariffs. I'm sure they have partner countries that they manufacture with. Not that hard to change a mold to show a different country of origin!
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Old 11-12-2018, 12:51 PM   #166
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RVing is a learning experience, learn on the go. A good TPMS would save a lot of tires but so would not overloading the tires. Checking the air in the tires, speeding.
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Old 11-12-2018, 04:47 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by wmtire View Post
China made ST tires do have to have the speed/load rating molded on the tire or they would lose their tariff exemption from 2015.

https://enforcement.trade.gov/downlo...nal-061215.pdf

There is talk with the new upcoming tire tariffs to include the ST tires, which China produces 90% of.

http://www.tirebusiness.com/article/...ncluding-tires

If that happens, then this may make the Goodyear Endurance even more in demand..... which will also drive it's prices up. And was probably a major consideration that has Triangle Tires moving their ST tire production from China to a NC plant.
Sorry, tires made in China do not have to display any sort of speed restriction. They do it to avoid increased tariffs imposed by customs on entry into the USA without them. Maxxis is a prime example. They are not made in China (Proper) and still do not have speed letters. It's just not a mandatory requirement.

Maybe in the next round of tire rules changes the speed lettering will be addressed. I closely watch for any CFR, NHTSA, FMVSS interim changes about tires of any kind. I've never seen anything about mandatory speed lettering.

On another note. In one of your references, tire service descriptions are mentioned. To someone that does not keep abreast with tire regulations may find it confusing. Service descriptions were hotly debated by the 2007 tire rules committee. The end result was to allow manufacturers of ST & LT tires to put the service description on their tire sidewalls for the purpose of speed lettering. However, the tire load range (load indexing system) is the only official method to be recognized for measuring the load capacity of ST & LT tires. The majority of the committee agreed that at some future meeting the service description might become standard for all DOT tires. It hasn't happened, yet. (The 2007 final rule - what we are currently getting our regulation directions from - is quite lengthily. The last I looked it was still in pdf form on the net. The 2007 rules for RV cargo capacities was amended in 2010 and has been included in FMVSS 571.110 & 571.120 dated after incorporation.
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Old 12-04-2018, 11:12 AM   #168
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Far Off From Origional, But wothy information!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airdale View Post
Sorry, tires made in China do not have to display any sort of speed restriction. They do it to avoid increased tariffs imposed by customs on entry into the USA without them. Maxxis is a prime example. They are not made in China (Proper) and still do not have speed letters. It's just not a mandatory requirement.

Maybe in the next round of tire rules changes the speed lettering will be addressed. I closely watch for any CFR, NHTSA, FMVSS interim changes about tires of any kind. I've never seen anything about mandatory speed lettering.

On another note. In one of your references, tire service descriptions are mentioned. To someone that does not keep abreast with tire regulations may find it confusing. Service descriptions were hotly debated by the 2007 tire rules committee. The end result was to allow manufacturers of ST & LT tires to put the service description on their tire sidewalls for the purpose of speed lettering. However, the tire load range (load indexing system) is the only official method to be recognized for measuring the load capacity of ST & LT tires. The majority of the committee agreed that at some future meeting the service description might become standard for all DOT tires. It hasn't happened, yet. (The 2007 final rule - what we are currently getting our regulation directions from - is quite lengthily. The last I looked it was still in pdf form on the net. The 2007 rules for RV cargo capacities was amended in 2010 and has been included in FMVSS 571.110 & 571.120 dated after incorporation.
Mr. Airdale,

I compliment you on an accurate post, followed by your source empirical to the subject of speed rating posted, (or not), on "ST" tires made in China. This pursuant to FMVSS 571.110 & 571.120. (It would be interesting for one to prove you wrong...!)

Here is an easier reading of the same, https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.120 For those using "LT" tires on their 5th Wheel or travel trailer, regulations also state deducting 1.5% from their maximum load capacity.

The article you suggested here; https://www.moderntiredealer.com/art...rying-capacity , is also a good read suggesting there may be competitive improvements to come with “ST” tires.

Your “heads-up” here; https://rvtravel.com/forest-river-re...failure-issue/ is pertinent to me. In a previous post, courtesy of my wife’s cousin who works for Lippert, Inc., I was advised early on to fortify these brackets before traveling to Alaska.

Both the links above I believe bear repeating. Thank you for your accuracy!

George G. Fries
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