Unsafe Tires on New RV's

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by imjustdave

There is no oversight past the consumer.

It's a huge industry, there are numerous well known "watchdogs" out there.

The tire says it will cover the load so its valid from their point of view. Again they don't say how long it will work just that it does. Mileage and age, both very unpredictable. Ballpark figures are given by most manufacturers.

ST tires "trailer" are built to a way different standard then P and LT tires. "Cars" and "trucks" and I mean way lower standard. All three are engineered differently. They are tailored to perform different functions in different ways. The "P" tires must be derated when used on pick-up trucks, multi-passenger vehicles, and trailers. "LT" tires are specifically designed for the heavier loads carried by light trucks plus being able to withstand the forces from steer and drive axles. ST tires are designed to carry heavy loads and to withstand the elements better.

Speed, Air Pressure, and Heat I think are the biggest reasons past curb damage. 99.9 % of us will never wear out a trailer tire, it will age out or blow up well past wearing the tread out. You left out overloading, it's more common with RV trailers.

And mostly because people buy them, I would say a lot of trailers are price point specific, and the manufacture builds to that price point, until the dealers push back and say we want decent tires it wont happen, maybe when someone dies and they sue the new couple who just left on journey not knowing any better, and the dealer, and RV trailer manufacture are sued as well, will it change until then. Just like the automotive industry the trailer industry is a buyer beware environment. Next time you're at a large car/truck dealership, count the different brands of tires used on their models.

I recall 10+ years ago I was at Les Schwab saw a brand new RV trailer and they were changing the tires, I asked why they said the empty scale weight of the toy hauler was more then the tires were rated for The manufacture literally found something round that would bolt on.

They just forgot to subtract the trailer's hitch weight which is added to the tow vehicle. (tires are required to carry the weight of all GAWRs).


I did have a utility trailer once 14K rates that had load range D when the sticker clearly rated the trailer with E rated. Manufacture covered the cost of new tires for me, never did find out if it was there SOP to send out cheaper tread to save a few $$ or if it was an honest mistake.A mistake like that on the vehicle manufacturer's part will normally prompt them to conduct a self induced recall for all vehicles that may have the same condition.



FYI My Artic Fox 32-5m came with some nice rubber Load range G as I recall. I think they are Good year, but could be Michelin but they are brand name for sure, VS China junk.

You were doing good right up to the last paragraph. How can you properly manage your tires when you don't even know their size and load capacity?

[GeorgeFries]

I hate to be patronizing and/or blunt. All six of your questions “should’ve, could’ve, would’ve” been asked and answered BY YOU/YOURSELF before you purchased your 5th Wheel. The Latin term “Caveat Emptor”, (buyer beware), applies wholeheartedly to an industry with the least amount of regulation in our country today. (Please know I learned the hard way too.)

Were you aware that for the most part there is no nationally recognized travel trailer or 5th Wheel built with any more structural integrity than its competive brand? That profit margins are so slim, wherever a corner can be cut… it is? This includes suspension, axles, wheels, and tires! Otherwise, for a great majority, buying an RV would be cost prohibitive! (My wife is a "Hoosier" from Bremen, IN. Her varied uncles and cousins have retired from or continue working in the RV industry, Elkhart, Goshen, Wakarusa, etc.)

Tires are cheaper when purchased in China. This includes shipping and handling charges getting them to the States. The tires are warehoused awaiting distribution to the various factories. They are installed onto RV's according to the speed of the production line and the exacting specifications of travel trailer and/or 5th Wheel axle and load ratings—no more, no less. These RV’s are then shipped to their respective dealership. How long have the RV’s sat on the lot? Why is this important? An informed consumer will know that an “ST” tire has roughly a five year life expectancy for safe travel. So, there has been a minimum of 18 months since a majority of these Chinese tires were manufactured and now on the RV you've just purchased. "ST" tires are purposefully built to accommodate travel trailers and 5th Wheels—(and boat trailers) with a finite life expectancy regardless of how much use they’ve seen, degenerating from the inside out. Were you aware of this? (Visit http://www.tredittire.com/tires , supplier of the largest RV manufactures, both Thor Industries and Berkshire Hathaway, {Warren Buffet}, also throughout northern Indiana.) Hereto, is the dealer or salesman responsible for better informing you?


So… did you look at the information mandated to be on the side of every tire sold in the United States before embarking on your trip? Included is date of manufacture! There is the “Service Description”! This tells you the LOAD INDEX, maximum load indicated by the speed symbol, the SPEED SYMBOL, indicating maximum speed for the tire given its load. So, is the dealership responsible for going into such detail with you? Whose responsibility is it to take your 5th Wheel to the nearest truck stop and weigh in before embarking on your trip? (Do you know what your Gross Combined Vehicle Weight is?) Can you state with certainty how close you were to the placarded weight limits of your 5th Wheel?

At some point the consumer has to take responsibility. (Last week I buy a new Ford F150. I go to the gravel pit, load it with two tons of gravel before heading down the road. The tires blow, the axle breaks, and the transmission explodes. Do I blame the dealer? The salesman?.)

In my instance, the knowledge I gained was getting rid of my remaining four tires, upgrading to 16" wheels, and obtaining the largest Goodyear Endurance Tire, (highest load rating), that would fit the confines of my 5th Wheel. Why Goodyear Endurance? It is the only "ST" tire made in the United States. For me it has a "conditional" warranty" from manufacturing defects good from any Goodyear tire distributor around the nation. (And too, these tires enhanced the stability of my 5th Wheel negating unnecessary expenditure on suspension modifications originally suggested.) Would an astute consumer balk at this $2700.00 increase to the sales invoice? The uninformed... yes, just like I did. Too much reliance on somebody else! This cost me an additional $1100.00 in repairs to my 5th Wheel as well.

There is a wealth of information ahead of you should you want to take it upon yourself to learn. Every day after two years I learn something I didn’t know before. Yesterday it was how the use of fabric softener, (Downey), kills the working bacteria in recreational parks septic systems. After research, we now use Calgon water softener.

Happier Travels.

George G. Fries

[kevinhen]

We should start posting all the tire problems to social media. Even post videos of the blown tire and tire changing on highways with cars and trucks passing us at 75 to 80 miles an hour on YouTube... Between YouTube Twitter and Facebook if we all start posting this,, I'm sure someone would help us .....the manufacturer certainly don't want to do anything.

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by kevinhen

We should start posting all the tire problems to social media. Even post videos of the blown tire and tire changing on highways with cars and trucks passing us at 75 to 80 miles an hour on YouTube... Between YouTube Twitter and Facebook if we all start posting this,, I'm sure someone would help us .....the manufacturer certainly don't want to do anything.

You mean...

Video shot by me having one of my roadside assistance packages changing my tire(s) along the side of the road...

[Villagerjjm]

WEIGH... WEIGH... WEIGH.... You really have to weigh at each individual tire with everything fully loaded in the exact spot where it will be loaded.

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by Villagerjjm

WEIGH... WEIGH... WEIGH.... You really have to weigh at each individual tire with everything fully loaded in the exact spot where it will be loaded.

It's nice to know those weights, but in the real world you'll never keep those weights.

And stay married...

[ace911]

Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience. I just purchased a 1-1/2 yr old 2017 2509S made in Feb 2017 with Castle Rock tires dated early 2017 also. As soon as I got the trailer home I changed out the tires to the new Carlisle Radial Trail HD with a D load rating. I also have a boat trailer with the same tires and they have performed well towing through the desert the last couple seasons. Towing the trailer home with the Castle Rocks I immediately noticed how "squishy" they felt towing. Lots of sidewall flex and wandering in the ruts.
My moto is buy all new tires every 4-1/2 to 5 yrs, and forget the tire covers-your tires arent going to blow because of sidewall rot in 5yrs. just my 2 cents.

[Cowracer]

Originally Posted by Villagerjjm

WEIGH... WEIGH... WEIGH.... You really have to weigh at each individual tire with everything fully loaded in the exact spot where it will be loaded.

That seems a little excessive, and guaranteed to make a great time horrible, as you stress if you got the mayo jar in the exact right position in the fridge.

How about, weight it once to make sure, and then go out and have fun in the thing. If I had to weigh... weigh... WEIGH... like you say, I'd probably just sell the damn thing and take up canning artisanal pickles or something for my hobby.

Tim

[GeorgeFries]

Whereas weight and balance are not of a "critical nature", it is certainly something to be considered. Many 5th Wheels are compartmentalized offering ideal storage areas. At some point, being out of sight and out of mind, there is a reckoning.

Is your 5th Wheel or Travel Trailer level with your tow vehicle? In essence imagine a datum line from the headlight of your tow vehicle to the taillight of your RV. (A point of reference or standard for comparison.) Park your complete rig on a parking lot. Step back 100 feet. Does it look like the weight of your RV is equally distributed on each of your axels? Or does your 5th Wheel or travel trailer look like it rides too high/too low? Seriously! Watch oncoming 5th Wheels and/or travel trailers when your on the road. Just by looking are you able to determine which axel is bearing a heavier load leading to premature tire wear or strain; to include axel spindle and bearing wear? Hereto, this is not so much about how one's rig has been loaded, but more to do with how it has been set up.

There is nothing "casual" about traveling with a 5th Wheel or travel trailer. Should one be interested in reading statistics, e.g., DOT, NTSB, etc., one can learn many accidents with RV's were avoidable. Referring to "tuckj1958's" original post and his six items of concern, my earlier post revealed it was ultimately his responsibility. It behooves all of us to become as best informed as possible when on the road for the safety of "everyone" involved.

George G. Fries

[babock]

Originally Posted by Villagerjjm

WEIGH... WEIGH... WEIGH.... You really have to weigh at each individual tire with everything fully loaded in the exact spot where it will be loaded.

Unless you trailer has torsion axles, each tire on the same side of the trailer will have identical weights on them so you really only need to weigh each side if you think there is much of a weight difference. The equalizer between the leaf springs makes sure of that.

[Okiefatman]

I bought a 2016 Serria the very first thing I did was change the tires. I put on some Sailun's all steel 14 ply, absolutely no problems.

[wicked1]

Which is a better tire, Sailun or Goodyear I know it is a matter of Opinion but wondering which holds up better.

We got Raineir G rated on our new Rig keep them inflated to 110psi trailer loaded is 13,800 and max combined is 16,200 and we have over 5,000 miles on them hope to have no issues but when I store the trailer at home tires sit on boards and not the ground. I was swaying towards the Sailun but no local retailer by me in NJ carries this size.

Curious to know why one is Better then the other?

[babock]

Originally Posted by wicked1

Which is a better tire, Sailun or Goodyear I know it is a matter of Opinion but wondering which holds up better.

We got Raineir G rated on our new Rig keep them inflated to 110psi trailer loaded is 13,800 and max combined is 16,200 and we have over 5,000 miles on them hope to have no issues but when I store the trailer at home tires sit on boards and not the ground. I was swaying towards the Sailun but no local retailer by me in NJ carries this size.

Curious to know why one is Better then the other?

The Goodyear Endurance has been out less than 2 years so jury is still out on their longevity.

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by babock

The Goodyear Endurance has been out less than 2 years so jury is still out on their longevity.

I believe he is talking about the Goodyear G614's, which is an LT tire like the Sailuns.

[GeorgeFries]

Please accept my apology to all. This thread is now way off course from "tuckj1958" and his six grievances;

1. Why are RV manufactures allowed to put inferior products which are known to fail on new RV's, especially if its a safety hazard? (Castle Rock).
2. Why wouldn't a reputable dealer tell you up front you may want to change those tires out?
3. Why isn't surge protection built into RV's as standard equipment. After you purchase everyone says gotta have it.....
4. Again why wouldn't a reputable dealer say, hey, we recommend you spend another $300 and get what should be already on this $40k RV
5. Why wouldn't the tire manufacture be liable for the damage? Good luck with Forest Rivers wheel and tire warranty.....
6. I am willing to pay upfront for safety and reliability, so does such an rv manufacture exist??


I responded in kind earlier. Regarding best tire? Do the research yourself! There is a reason ( Tredit Tire Home ) has increased orders for the "Goodyear Endurance", this is spelled not made in China. Yes, the Endurance has only been out two years... and in that time zero DOT record of manufacturers defect resulting in accident or fatality. With the advent of the first American Made ST Tire in decades, does one think Goodyear would screw it up? Jayco has been the first to install this tire on %100 of accorded applications.

My tow vehicle and 5th Wheel is insured by a major U.S. company, (on average 20% less than Geico, USAA, Safeco, Nationwide, etc.), with a $250.00 deductible per claim. CLEARLY SPELLED OUT IN MY POLICY IS THAT MY RV NOT BE OPERATED WITH OTHER THAN OEM CORRECT EQUIPMENT! For me, that means I do not use "LT" tires on my 5th Wheel or boat trailer. I use the recommended "ST" tires. There is a big difference between the two, inasmuch as my insurance company see's. That's good enough for me.

There are several aftermarket tires that could fit my Cessna Skylane, some reading better specifications. But has the FAA issued a Standard Type Certificate for these tires? There must be a reason why not. Would you fly with me knowing I took this alternative path?

Perhaps what I'm saying is that... now the RV'ing community has a better option than choosing the best of a bad market, and I'd love reading questions specific to tires in another topic, even if the question results in 10,000 differing opinions!

George G. Fries
DAB FL

[babock]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

I believe he is talking about the Goodyear G614's, which is an LT tire like the Sailuns.

Yep...you are correct. That's what happens when using my phone instead of my PC.

[OKI Marine]

Sometimes I think that we over think these things. There could be and usually is 100 different reasons that tires don't hold up for whatever reason. It is also everyone's choice as to how they handle it. I think sometimes you have to think about how you camp, where and how far you travel. Whether it's within 20 -25 miles from home or greater and how many times a year you pull the camper out. Why spend hundreds of dollars on tires and other rv stuff that you rarely will use. The so called " China Bombs" and realistically all your junk is nearly made in China, may be fine for the occasional weekend every now and then sort of camper. What one tire works for one person may not for another. Different driving habits, road conditions, temperatures, and load amounts affect tire stability. It's like the car you see on the highway everyday for months going 70 mph on a temporary spare rated for about 40-45 mph and short distances. Don't get me wrong, I am grateful for all of the valuable info on this forum from everyone. It has helped me tremendously and I have learned a lot. Sometimes I think we run these same topics into the ground though.

[spock123]

Originally Posted by GeorgeFries

Please accept my apology to all. This thread is now way off course from "tuckj1958" and his six grievances;



1. Why are RV manufactures allowed to put inferior products which are known to fail on new RV's, especially if its a safety hazard? (Castle Rock).

2. Why wouldn't a reputable dealer tell you up front you may want to change those tires out?

3. Why isn't surge protection built into RV's as standard equipment. After you purchase everyone says gotta have it.....

4. Again why wouldn't a reputable dealer say, hey, we recommend you spend another $300 and get what should be already on this $40k RV

5. Why wouldn't the tire manufacture be liable for the damage? Good luck with Forest Rivers wheel and tire warranty.....

6. I am willing to pay upfront for safety and reliability, so does such an rv manufacture exist??





I responded in kind earlier. Regarding best tire? Do the research yourself! There is a reason ( Tredit Tire Home ) has increased orders for the "Goodyear Endurance", this is spelled not made in China. Yes, the Endurance has only been out two years... and in that time zero DOT record of manufacturers defect resulting in accident or fatality. With the advent of the first American Made ST Tire in decades, does one think Goodyear would screw it up? Jayco has been the first to install this tire on %100 of accorded applications.



My tow vehicle and 5th Wheel is insured by a major U.S. company, (on average 20% less than Geico, USAA, Safeco, Nationwide, etc.), with a $250.00 deductible per claim. CLEARLY SPELLED OUT IN MY POLICY IS THAT MY RV NOT BE OPERATED WITH OTHER THAN OEM CORRECT EQUIPMENT! For me, that means I do not use "LT" tires on my 5th Wheel or boat trailer. I use the recommended "ST" tires. There is a big difference between the two, inasmuch as my insurance company see's. That's good enough for me.



There are several aftermarket tires that could fit my Cessna Skylane, some reading better specifications. But has the FAA issued a Standard Type Certificate for these tires? There must be a reason why not. Would you fly with me knowing I took this alternative path?



Perhaps what I'm saying is that... now the RV'ing community has a better option than choosing the best of a bad market, and I'd love reading questions specific to tires in another topic, even if the question results in 10,000 differing opinions!



George G. Fries

DAB FL

My Cedar Creek came from the factory with LT Goodyear’s. My insurance agent doesn’t know the difference between a fifth wheel and a travel trailer

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by tuckj1958

1. Why are RV manufactures allowed to put inferior products which are known to fail on new RV's, especially if its a safety hazard? (Castle Rock).

Evidence comes to mind. Antidotal tire failure reports don't tell us much about the cause of a failure.

2. Why wouldn't a reputable dealer tell you up front you may want to change those tires out?

Loyalty to the product manufacturer.

3. Why isn't surge protection built into RV's as standard equipment. After you purchase everyone says gotta have it..... Was it not an option? Every vehicle does not have everything.

4. Again why wouldn't a reputable dealer say, hey, we recommend you spend another $300 and get what should be already on this $40k RV. Referred to #2.

5. Why wouldn't the tire manufacture be liable for the damage? I'm pretty sure they will if there is validated evidence the tire was the cause and the tire had a defect that caused the damage.

6. I am willing to pay upfront for safety and reliability, so does such an RV manufacture exist?? Did they offer time for a PDI? In a buyer beware market, the PDI offers the consumer the opportunity to validate their satisfaction with the product.

RV manufactures and dealers appear to be all about the sale and good luck to you afterwards.: mad:

Yup, sounds like most sales people. Everyone has to take home the bacon.

[jeffkirk]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Before I would condemn a tire as "crap" I'd make sure that it was properly inflated, not overloaded, and I wasn't driving down the highway at speeds in excess of the limit molded into the sidewall.

It's one thing to weigh the trailer with all four on the scale at the same time but how is the load distributed among those four tires. Right side heavier than left? Front axle carrying more load than rear.

Hit any curbs turning into gas stations?

I can only speak of my trailer and experience with it. It has Castle Rock 14" tires that were manufactured in early 2017. I have well over 10,000 miles on them since I drove it home from the Dealer in July 2017.

Air pressure checked before each trip (and I now have a TST 507 TPMS). Having "busted" a few tires in years past when hitting curbs as entering gas station or grocery store parking lots I now am extra careful.

So far the tires are doing just fine. Plan on running them until the tread is 2/3 worn and so far I see no reason why they won't.

My driving speed? I stay at the LEGAL speed for vehicles towing trailers in the states I travel through. Can be as low as 50 mph but usually 10 mph less than the max. My max is 60 mph and don't mind using turn-outs if traffic is backing up behind me on 2-lanes. I get better fuel mileage, don't beat up the equipment, and my knuckles don't turn white.

FWIW, I've always gotten along with tires pretty well. Put over 100,000 miles on a set of "Diamond" fabric belted radials that used to be sold in the 70's. They were on a 1973 Dodge B-200 van that I drove an average of 40k per year all over the 11 western states.

I agree with most of what you say but I've looked at a lot of tires and never seen the max speed listed on the sidewall. Max inflation? Yes. Max load? week of manufacture? Yes. Never seen Speed rating on sidewall. Have to go elsewhere to find that.