WHY!!!

[Paul Darold]

Why is it, after we save our money, research and discuss for quite awhile all the RV's, we still have to "repair" and fix up before even the 1st trip? Maybe its tires or vacuum sawdust or whatever. Usually its not like this with a new truck or car, why rv's?

[Mr. Dan]

Read the 1000+ posts on RV initial quality. You'll find many opinions and probably some facts.

[ferguson65]

I have to agree its pretty pathetic. I've noticed a bunch of stuff on our new unit that hasn't left the driveway yet. Been digging around it to install a Progressive EMS unit. Fixed the door latch between the living space and garage myself (didn't latch), noted one of the blind valances is missing screws, the slide is too far back in the cutout and the back window binds on the seal when it comes in--I don't know how I didn't see it at the dealer, but I didn't. One of the bolts for the rear ramp door is missing, right next to the license plate the dealer put on, saw that when I put the registration sticker on. Not to mention all the sawdust and woodchips I vacuumed out of the power converter and it's location. Seems like I keep finding sawdust everywhere. Mostly little stuff but none the less aggravating. The slide really irritates me as I don't really want to use it. Don't really have time to run it back to the dealer before next weekend. guess if it tears the seals they'll just have more to fix.

[SuicideSaints]

Not trying to be mean or anything but if you researched and talked to others on the forum then you should be fully aware of the associated things you have to deal with when making an RV purchase.

It seems that all the problems have a remedy but it is up to you (the consumer) to keep up on them. Dirty units are fixed by a solid PDI and refusing to take delivery until the problems are fixed. The units come with a year warranty (some with an additional year) so you are not responsible for out of pocket fixes for manufacturing defects. That gives you 2 years in most case and a year in all cases to get the issues addressed.

When making a purchase it is just as good to research the dealer as it is the specific unit you want because the dealer is the first contact you have in getting issues resolved.

I found an awesome dealer and researched them as well as the unit I have not had a single problem with my unit, whether that be dirty or leaks, not one single problem.

So like I previously said in this industry it is imperative that the consumer do his due diligence.

If you have a specific problem I and a lot of other members here are glad to offer advice......

[DFW Rusty]

IMO,

It's apples to oranges on the construction of the two. Automobiles for the most part are entirely built by machine and merely assembled by people. Where our campers are still built by hand, the walls, frame, cabinets and 90% of all the other stuff.

Your at the mercy of joe blow who built your camper and his craftsmanship. It is a snow ball as well, joe blow makes a mistake, jane blow who is his inspector over looks his mistake, jack crap is more concerned with his task to care that he noticed joe blows mistake and then blamo your camper is at the dealer with what is now your problem.

[ferguson65]

Originally Posted by SuicideSaints

Not trying to be mean or anything but if you researched and talked to others on the forum then you should be fully aware of the associated things you have to deal with when making an RV purchase.

I fully intended to drag mine back to the dealer after the first trip, I did a bunch of research and pretty much expected it. Just wasn't expecting to question if I should take it back before the first trip..........I can get the slide to ease in so I'm going to run with it, as I'm sure there will be more. But the look on my wife's face when the salesman said just make a list and bring it back was priceless. I did opt for the 2nd year warranty extension and just got the paperwork back yesterday.

[WolfWhistle]

Originally Posted by Paul Darold

Why is it, after we save our money, research and discuss for quite awhile all the RV's, we still have to "repair" and fix up before even the 1st trip? Maybe its tires or vacuum sawdust or whatever. Usually its not like this with a new truck or car, why rv's?

Its not entirely that way with a car, but it should be!

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by DFW Rusty

IMO,

It's apples to oranges on the construction of the two. Automobiles for the most part are entirely built by machine and merely assembled by people. Where our campers are still built by hand, the walls, frame, cabinets and 90% of all the other stuff.

I don't understand why people don't get this, either. People are getting mad at an issue that the consumer has caused for the most part. How many of us shop with price being a huge factor? I know I do. So we've shifted the environment to be heavily influenced by speed of production rather than having an emphasis on quality control. If FR offered a fifth wheel in 3 floor plans, a TT in 3 floor plans, and a hybrid in 3 floor plans and there were NO submakes, they could probably mechanize much of the manufacturing process almost to the point of each trailer being a bolt together kit. Then we'd have person after person throwing a fit about not having enough choices and the floorplan they want isn't available. What if FR came out tomorrow and said they were going to slow production speed by 25% in order to greatly improve QC and produce a far superior product. They were also going to increase pay by 50% to their manufacturing employees in order to get workers with more skill/experience and in order to decrease turnover. Oh, BTW, average cost of a unit will increase by 25%. Guess what. You'd see a lot more Jayco's, Heartland's, etc., and a lot LESS FR products, and people would continue to gripe.

With that being said, there are things that get by that should NOT, even with the most basic of QC in place. But to compare the auto industry to the RV industry is invalid.

[Patrickdana]

C. Bc😚😥😥😥c 😕😚😕


Sent from my iPad using Forest River Forums

[Steeljag]

Was this not the issue with American made vehicles prior to the Japanese taking over with much better quality control?

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by Paul Darold

Why is it, after we save our money, research and discuss for quite awhile all the RV's, we still have to "repair" and fix up before even the 1st trip? Maybe its tires or vacuum sawdust or whatever. Usually its not like this with a new truck or car, why rv's?

Why!!!! BECAUSE!!!!

That is the only true answer to that question.

Now a lot of times in manufacturing an RV product this is built by people not robots. So you have the human element involved; I need a break, don't feel good or whatever. Also the buyer is demanding a product for a set price point and in order to meet that point the components have to be bought for a certain price in order for the dealer and manufacture to make a profit and (ROI) return on the investment to the stock holders. So that means tires will come from China and other low cost manufacturing areas.

I have had spent FOURTY years with a large US base manufacturing company trying to build a quality product fighting off the non-US base manufactures that under bid our products. These will fall apart in a few years of service but the purchasing department does not care they were the low cost bidder.

Just my observation.

Jim W.

[bikendan]

Can't compare the auto industry, to the RV industry.
The only things they have in common, is that they make things on wheels, that are sold at dealerships.

[Crockett]

they are becoming more like the auto industry every day. floors and walls are brought in as individual components and assembled on assembly line. composite use has steamlined assembly. if we could all get by on one or two models, we'd be amazed how mechanized things could get.

[DDC]

Originally Posted by bikendan

Can't compare the auto industry, to the RV industry.
The only things they have in common, is that they make things on wheels, that are sold at dealerships.

Why can't you compare the two? They do have a lot in common, they are both made of parts that come from other sources, they are both on an assembly line and are assembled by people, one has a quality control group at each assembly station the other has none, both are required to meet certain standards for being used on the highways and one does 100 percent the other skirts the limits using products that come so close to their limits there is little if any wiggle room, tires and suspensions are a prime example.
I wonder what the profit is on a rv, we see them in advertisements with prices that vary as much as 60 percent of the MSRP and we all know that even at that reduced cost profit is still being made.

[latner]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

I don't understand why people don't get this, either. People are getting mad at an issue that the consumer has caused for the most part. How many of us shop with price being a huge factor? I know I do. So we've shifted the environment to be heavily influenced by speed of production rather than having an emphasis on quality control. If FR offered a fifth wheel in 3 floor plans, a TT in 3 floor plans, and a hybrid in 3 floor plans and there were NO submakes, they could probably mechanize much of the manufacturing process almost to the point of each trailer being a bolt together kit. Then we'd have person after person throwing a fit about not having enough choices and the floorplan they want isn't available. What if FR came out tomorrow and said they were going to slow production speed by 25% in order to greatly improve QC and produce a far superior product. They were also going to increase pay by 50% to their manufacturing employees in order to get workers with more skill/experience and in order to decrease turnover. Oh, BTW, average cost of a unit will increase by 25%. Guess what. You'd see a lot more Jayco's, Heartland's, etc., and a lot LESS FR products, and people would continue to gripe.

With that being said, there are things that get by that should NOT, even with the most basic of QC in place. But to compare the auto industry to the RV industry is invalid.

Well said.

[ColoradoRick]

Watch the quality in this Toyota plant (Kentucky):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijMY-LUmzRE

Then watch this Jayco assembly line. (It reminds me of games we played in the Boy Scouts where teams had to do stuff as fast as possible...can't believe Jayco thinks this would make anyone buy one of their units!!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXMJrRQ3SVk

[OldCoot]

FR does not really have anything close to an assembly line if you compare it to the automotive industry or farm equipment industry. FR just has large buildings where assembly takes place. Other than lifts and power hand tools, etc. it is all manual labor. So any comparison between the two is imo senseless. Like thoroughbred race horses to Shetland ponies.

[mike.t]

Originally Posted by SuicideSaints

Not trying to be mean or anything but if you researched and talked to others on the forum then you should be fully aware of the associated things you have to deal with when making an RV purchase.

It seems that all the problems have a remedy but it is up to you (the consumer) to keep up on them. Dirty units are fixed by a solid PDI and refusing to take delivery until the problems are fixed. The units come with a year warranty (some with an additional year) so you are not responsible for out of pocket fixes for manufacturing defects. That gives you 2 years in most case and a year in all cases to get the issues addressed.

When making a purchase it is just as good to research the dealer as it is the specific unit you want because the dealer is the first contact you have in getting issues resolved.

I found an awesome dealer and researched them as well as the unit I have not had a single problem with my unit, whether that be dirty or leaks, not one single problem.

So like I previously said in this industry it is imperative that the consumer do his due diligence.

If you have a specific problem I and a lot of other members here are glad to offer advice......

I feel this should come under"things to do before purchasing a RV" Instead of telling it to someone who at the moment does not need a lecture on what he SHOULD have done.

[CardinalQueen]

We feel the same...we even went to a huge dealer yesterday and asked the Parts Manager if the service was great. He was honest and said "not really". We've been to several and have yet to find one that wasn't AWFUL. The first time you go you hear angels singing because it's so good. Then the next time it's the same crap. Repeated trips for the same work. Half-done work or various excuses ie "wrong part was sent" or "it's supposed to look like that". We had a new ladder installed and after walking around the unit there were no screws tightened on it. It could have fallen off it was barely attached. 😱

[Pixelbum1]

Originally Posted by SuicideSaints

Not trying to be mean or anything but if you researched and talked to others on the forum then you should be fully aware of the associated things you have to deal with when making an RV purchase.

It seems that all the problems have a remedy but it is up to you (the consumer) to keep up on them. Dirty units are fixed by a solid PDI and refusing to take delivery until the problems are fixed. The units come with a year warranty (some with an additional year) so you are not responsible for out of pocket fixes for manufacturing defects. That gives you 2 years in most case and a year in all cases to get the issues addressed.

When making a purchase it is just as good to research the dealer as it is the specific unit you want because the dealer is the first contact you have in getting issues resolved.

I found an awesome dealer and researched them as well as the unit I have not had a single problem with my unit, whether that be dirty or leaks, not one single problem.

So like I previously said in this industry it is imperative that the consumer do his due diligence.

If you have a specific problem I and a lot of other members here are glad to offer advice......

I want to apologize to you for just sending an off-the-wall "thnxs" re your use of the acronym...PDI. Couldn't figure what in Hades you were talking about and thus ventured a "Post delivery Insurgency?" and also a 'Pre-Delivery Inquisition?" stab. Then it dawned on me...oh...PRE DELIVERY INSPECTION!!
SO, sorry again for this and please accept my humble..."wincing" ? However, since we run into a lOT of acronyms on this blog and it's almost like being back in the USAF, I've decided to start a thread asking for volunteers to submit all their favorite (if not humorous?) acronyms so that the sometimes clueless, as myself, can compile a list of such to use as reference! What think you re this? And now, back to your above response...I fully agree! Hah!