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Old 09-25-2011, 02:24 PM   #101
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So people who have a different viewpoint are people who don't want to educate themselves and see things your way?
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:34 PM   #102
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So people who have a different viewpoint are people who don't want to educate themselves and see things your way?
Moderator hat on:

Excellent point. There is a difference between expressing ones opinion and flaming another.

We will not all agree but can at least conduct ourselves in a collegial manner whilst stating our own opinions.
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:35 PM   #103
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My prediction is this thread goes to 15 pages!
I'll take that bet cause i see people using their own feelings to express this point and not making a statement on the issue
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Old 09-25-2011, 04:19 PM   #104
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"We brush teeth and wash hands in the sink... We use dr. Brommers Castile soap (the peppermint oil flavor actually) for washing. I have no guilt or regret in using some of this water to douse the campfire each night... We may fill a 5gal bucket over the course of a three day weekend. Seems silly to use fresh water to douse a fire when all that is in our "dirty" water is biodegradable soap and dirt dirt, soil particulate."
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It is posts like that that try to hijack the thread by going off-topic that always cloud the issue. We are not talking, or worrying, about water that was used for handwashing or brushing your teeth. We are talking about grey water, which almost always incudes dishwashing waste. And water that has been use for washing dishes will invariably contain food particles. Now it doesn't matter where you dump it, it will smell. One poster mentioned that he dumps it "in the bush", but one man's bush might be another's hiking trail.

And the issue isn't so much about sanitation anyways, but simple common courtesy. The vast majority of campers would not want someone else's (nor their own) wastewater on their campsite. Is it so hard to be courteous? What is wrong with people these days? Is it that they come from the city where they would just love to dump sewage over the fence onto their neighbour's property, but realise that they can't get away with that, so they get an emotional release by doing it to the next guy to occupy his campsite?

Sometimes human nature is hard to figure out. But I am glad that the vast majority of campers are extremely couteous and friendly, going out of their way to be helpful to one another.
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Old 09-25-2011, 04:30 PM   #105
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It is not about differing opinions, it is about a few thinking CG rules and state and federal laws and regulations somehow do not apply to them. I am offended by someone that thinks I should follow all the rules but they do not feel the rules apply to them.

Sometimes doing the right thing is a pain, but if you cannot do the right thing ALL THE TIME you should not be camping.
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Originally Posted by Janet H

Moderator hat on:

Excellent point. There is a difference between expressing ones opinion and flaming another.

We will not all agree but can at least conduct ourselves in a collegial manner whilst stating our own opinions.
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Old 09-25-2011, 04:44 PM   #106
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I've been a "camper" my whole life. I've pulled into campsites where the previous occupants were not courteous and left behind debris. I can pick up gum wrappers, and paper towels. But the bits of rice, peas, and waxy "something" left in the wet grass next to the water supply pipe are just nasty. That happened to me long ago. For that reason, I only discharge my gray water into the dump station or I'll rent a site that has it's own sewer connection. I don't want to spoil it for the next occupant.

I later figured out that the waxy "something" was animal fat that had re-solidified once it cooled off. It must have just been oily residue on their pots and pans when they did the dishes, but it gelled up later.

For me, it's not a question of whether it is harmful to the environment. Animal waste has been used the world around as fertilizer. It doesn't hurt the Earth. But I wouldn't want to walk through it. Cooked vegetables on the ground won't hurt this planet. But they are disgusting to the people who come upon them. Should I even mention the small pile of body hairs that were in that area right at the base of the water pipe? I guess I just did mention them. Long story short, I moved sites that day and haven't been back to that campground in decades.

If we all were headed out across the prairie in chuck wagons it might not matter because the chances of the next camper stopping at the same spot is small. But in campgrounds we are confined to numbered slots where each night a new resident occupies the exact same space. I don't want anyone to encounter anything I left behind.
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:13 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocus View Post
"We brush teeth and wash hands in the sink... We use dr. Brommers Castile soap (the peppermint oil flavor actually) for washing. I have no guilt or regret in using some of this water to douse the campfire each night... We may fill a 5gal bucket over the course of a three day weekend. Seems silly to use fresh water to douse a fire when all that is in our "dirty" water is biodegradable soap and dirt dirt, soil particulate."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is posts like that that try to hijack the thread by going off-topic that always cloud the issue. We are not talking, or worrying, about water that was used for handwashing or brushing your teeth. We are talking about grey water, which almost always incudes dishwashing waste. And water that has been use for washing dishes will invariably contain food particles. Now it doesn't matter where you dump it, it will smell. One poster mentioned that he dumps it "in the bush", but one man's bush might be another's hiking trail.

And the issue isn't so much about sanitation anyways, but simple common courtesy. The vast majority of campers would not want someone else's (nor their own) wastewater on their campsite. Is it so hard to be courteous? What is wrong with people these days? Is it that they come from the city where they would just love to dump sewage over the fence onto their neighbour's property, but realise that they can't get away with that, so they get an emotional release by doing it to the next guy to occupy his campsite?

Sometimes human nature is hard to figure out. But I am glad that the vast majority of campers are extremely couteous and friendly, going out of their way to be helpful to one another.
not sure I deserve the condescending tone.
The rhetorical questions seem unnecessary as well.
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:48 PM   #108
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Anyone who takes offense to anything posted here is most likely reacting with at least a little bit of guilt, which would indicate that they know they are engaging in an unacceptable practice. If that causes them to think twice before dumping their wastewater on the ground, we have indeed accomplished something.
Camping is a very social experience for the vast majority, and considerate behavior goes a long, long way to making it an enjoyable experience for all.
But above all,
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:45 PM   #109
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THE ORIGINAL THREAD WAS ABOUT PEOPLE DUMPING WHOLE GREY TANKS ONTO THEIR CAMPSITES. NOT A BUCKET FULL.
THIS REMINDED ME OF THE GREY WATER RECYCLING USED IN STATES WITH VERY SERIOUS WATER SHORTAGES. THIS PROCESS OF RECYCLING WATER IS DONE MOSTLY BY ENVIRONMENTALLY CONSCIOUS PEOPLE AND IT FOLLOWS VERY STRICT GUIDELINES.
ONLY WATER FROM LAUNDRY USE THAT IS FREE OF HARSH CHEMICALS OR HEAVILY SOILED ARTICLES SHOULD BE USED TO IRRIGATE LANDSCAPES.
SIGNS MUST BE POSTED TO NOTIFY PEOPLE THAT RECYCLED WATER IS BEING USED TO AVOID HUMAN CONTACT.
IT SHOULD ONLY BE USED IN LOW TRAFFIC AREAS.
THIS GREY WATER MUST NOT BE SPRAYED INTO THE AIR BUT ENTER THE GROUND SEVERAL INCHES BELOW THE SURACE.
IT CANNOT ENTER ONTO OTHER OWNERS PROPERTIES.
IT CANNOT BE USED TO IRRIGATE VEGETABLE OR EDIBLE ROOT PLANTS.
IT SHOULD ONLY BE USED FOR CERTAIN PLANTS IN CERTAIN AREAS DEPENDING ON THE pH NEEDS OF THE PLANTS AND SOIL.
IT SHOULD BE SPREAD OUT OVER A LARGE AREA.
IT SHOULD NOT BE DONE YEAR ROUND.
GREY WATER THAT HAS BEEN STORED SHOULD NOT BE USED.
WATER USED TO WASH HEAVILY SOILED CLOTHING ARTICLES OR THOSE CONTAINING BLOOD ETC. SHOULD NOT BE USED.
AND THE LIST GOES ON.
NOT ENOUGH RESEARCH INTO THE LONGTERM EFFECTS OF THIS HAVE BEEN DONE AND IT IS STILL UNKNOWN HOW HARMFUL IT MAY BE TO SOIL/INSECTS/PLANTS IN THE FUTURE.

WATER FROM A GREY TANK IN A TRAVEL TRAILER IS MADE UP OF WATER FROM SHOWERS AND KITCHEN SINKS.
IT EXITS THE TRAILER USING THE SAME PIPE THE BLACK TANK DOES.
KITCHEN SINK WATER CONTAINS ORGANIC MATTER WHICH IS REGARDED AS BLACK.
ORGANIC MATTER BREAKS DOWN AND WHEN THE BACTERIA BECOMES ANAEROBIC IT STARTS TO SMELL BAD.
GREASE AND FAT IN WASH WATER REDUCES A PLANTS CAPABILITY TO ABSORB NUTRIENTS FROM THE SOIL.
SHOWER WATER MAY CONTAIN VIRUSES AND BACTERIA SUCH AS E COLI.
AND THE LIST GOES ON.

THESE ARE FACTS NOT OPINIONS.

IT IS NEVER A MATTER OF PERSONAL OPINION IF WE SHOULD DUMP GREY ONTO CAMPSITES OR NOT. THE CAMPGROUND RULES DICTATE THAT IT SHOULD NOT BE DONE.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:52 PM   #110
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Have to admit, we were "those" tent campers who dumped our dish water in the woods. But now that we have a TT, we would never consider dumping our gray water on the ground. It just plain STINKS! Bacon grease, food particles, etc., that have sat in your tank for days on end "cooking" into something EVIL shouldn't be dumped on the ground. I don't think it has anything to do with the environment as far as soap goes, etc.; it has everything to do with the respect of your campsite and the campers around you. Would you seriously want someone to dump 40 gallons of stinky waste water next to you? I think not.
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