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Old 09-16-2015, 01:20 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by DaveSchwartz View Post
They do not make any allowance about how close the two numbers are together (i.e. you are at 98% of the tire max load rating when doing so).
And yet, tire vendors like Carlisle Tire recommend allowing a 20% margin between tire load rating and actual loading.

The problem is that when they push to 98% of the tire max load based taking the GVWR, subtracting tongue weight, and dividing by the number of tires, they're ignoring a bunch of factors that can push individual tires over their maximums. For example, two rubber torsion axles are almost certain to not share load equally even when displaced by exactly the same rotational distance. There will be a difference between the two, it's just a question of how much.
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Old 09-16-2015, 01:44 PM   #32
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There's a disease, more common among men than women, called 'Refrigerator Blindness'. You open the door to the fridge, look in, and then turn around and call 'Honey, where's the milk?'. When you turn back to the fridge, it has suddenly appeared right in front of you.
I have this disease.

The rating sticker is there on the left side at the front of the trailer, as promised.

This raises a couple of questions:

Why isn't the sum of dry weight plus cargo capacity equal to the GVWR?

Also, I have a 36 gallon water tank and a hot water heater that's likely to contain 6 gallons. So isn't the total weight of water likely to be more like 350lbs than 250lbs?
How would one go about getting replacement stickers for there TT
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Old 09-16-2015, 02:11 PM   #33
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How would one go about getting replacement stickers for there TT
Since the sticker is installed by the manufacturer, you probably have to go to them or to a dealer representing them. Hopefully they are modern enough to be able to recreate the sticker by looking up your trailer by VIN number.
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Old 09-16-2015, 03:05 PM   #34
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I checked tire pressure in the morning before this failure. All tires were in the range of 48 to 52 lbs. I also eyeballed the tires at each stop before the failure and saw nothing to worry about. There were no significant events that I noticed prior to the failure, but it's always possible that I picked up a nail or similar while driving. This seems like a stretch, though. For the future, I bought an aftermarket TPMS and should know when a tire has a problem before it gets to this state.

I've been looking for a tire rating plate and not found it. On the 2014 model at the dealership it was next to the rear door on the passenger side. I remember because I was surprised at the very low cargo capacity (that has now been significantly increased). Next time I'm over at the storage facility I'll look for it at the driver side front, although I think I would have noticed it if it were there. Actually, maybe I'll drive over now and look again......
The fact that you checked the pressure in the AM or even at the last fuel stop provides no guarantee that a bit of grit didn't keep the valve core from sealing completely.
See my blog posts of November 2, 2012 and January 13, 2014 that has this picture


That grain of sand was the root cause of a tire leaking at the rate of 10 psi per hour.

The condition of the upper sidewall with the letters worn off indicates many miles of operation with the sidewall in contact with the road so probably 10 psi or less.
If you feel the end of the Polyester body cords you will find hard ones which is physical evidence proof of the temperature of the sidewall exceeding 350F and probably approaching 400F.
So it doesn't matter if it was a puncture or valve core leak you had no system in place to warn the driver the tire was operating while significantly under-inflated so the driver continued driving on the flat tire and destroyed it in the process.

The concept of "eyeballing" tires to establish if they are inflated properly has been repeatedly proven to result in errors that often exceed 30 psi error in estimated inflation,

If you think you have calibrated eyeballs tell me the inflation of this tire in the first and second view.


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Old 09-16-2015, 03:11 PM   #35
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If you ask FR about why they put on the tires they do, they will tell you that the sum of the tire max load ratings is sufficient to carry the maximum weight that will be put on the axles (GVWR - pin or tongue weight). They do not make any allowance about how close the two numbers are together (i.e. you are at 98% of the tire max load rating when doing so). Since the tire's manufacturer has certified that the tires will run for extended periods at that weight and inflation, they take them at their word and do not believe they need to put on tires where there would be a significant 'unused' portion of the load rating.

Same for the axles... why you see axles where the sum of the load ratings is below GVWR: because the frame is the weak link. And so on.

.
Maybe you need to ask FR if they will certify in writing that their RVs split the TT weight 50/50 axle to axle PLUS each axle is split 50/50% side to side.
They know full well that they are not but they figure that since they offer no or very limited warranty on tires they won't have to pay the cost of selling RVs that can not meet realistic loading numbers.
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Old 09-16-2015, 03:44 PM   #36
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Tireman,
I didn't mean to suggest that eyeballing a tire is as good as measuring its pressure.
However, it does narrow down the time when the tire shredded since this was readily noticeable.

Sure. A nail or grain of sand in the valve or a myriad other possible things could have caused loss of air. But so could a tire defect that showed up while underway. Given, as you point out, the 'bottom feeder' nature of my tire brand, I'm not going to be very forgiving about Forest River's choice of this key component of my trailer.


And, I'm doing everything I can think of to prevent a recurrence: new name brand tires, higher tire load rating, aftermarket TPMS, IR thermometer, etc. I'm probably spending a thousand bucks total on this issue....
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Old 09-16-2015, 04:17 PM   #37
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Tireman,
I didn't mean to suggest that eyeballing a tire is as good as measuring its pressure.
However, it does narrow down the time when the tire shredded since this was readily noticeable.

Sure. A nail or grain of sand in the valve or a myriad other possible things could have caused loss of air. But so could a tire defect that showed up while underway. Given, as you point out, the 'bottom feeder' nature of my tire brand, I'm not going to be very forgiving about Forest River's choice of this key component of my trailer.


And, I'm doing everything I can think of to prevent a recurrence: new name brand tires, higher tire load rating, aftermarket TPMS, IR thermometer, etc. I'm probably spending a thousand bucks total on this issue....
Sounds like you have a good plan.
I do believe you might find some of my blog posts on tire autopsy and why tires fail to be educational.
Too often the simple fact that a product fails is not sufficient evidence of a specific "defect" except in the minds of lawyers.
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Old 09-18-2015, 12:56 AM   #38
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Regarding yellow sticker issue, last time i talked to manufacturer I was told yellow sticker is of course vin specific on original build. Changing tire load capacity by getting heavier load range will not change sticker but will give owner benefits tire dealer will help you. Always ask for his freshest stock and I know I found bias ply on previous trailer that I replaced with radials. 4 C rating radials on that 4200lb tt was a great improvement. Radials at that time cost about $3 each more. Hope you have as good of tire dealership as I found.
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