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Old 09-25-2016, 02:04 PM   #61
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I was at the Ford dealer looking to trade my 150 for a Super Duty.
They had two 250 Lariats side by side virtually identical except for one thing.
One was diesel and one gas.
Cargo rating 2700 for gas vs 2000 for diesel.
Since the 150's cargo was 1600, I couldn't justify getting a diesel 250.
Just an explanation for greatly variable cargo ratings.
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Old 09-25-2016, 02:38 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by MarkyB View Post
I was at the Ford dealer looking to trade my 150 for a Super Duty.
They had two 250 Lariats side by side virtually identical except for one thing.
One was diesel and one gas.
Cargo rating 2700 for gas vs 2000 for diesel.
Since the 150's cargo was 1600, I couldn't justify getting a diesel 250.
Just an explanation for greatly variable cargo ratings.
I got the 6.2 gasser only since DW might drive it. I am certain one day she would put gas in it and paying for new diesel motor was not an option.
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Old 09-25-2016, 06:55 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by jtownstumpjumper View Post
And don't forget those washer/dryer combos that sit up in the front closets in the front cap. DW had one of those installed before our 5er ever left the lot...will admit it's been a great add-on for us to have...... don't know how much weight that added but it sits right on top of the pin box.

I would agree. One trailer I saw was with 3600 lbs pin weight before adding your own stuff.

More is better right?
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Old 09-25-2016, 07:07 PM   #64
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Hmmm. Mine has 2700 lbs with the Camper Package. We plan on a 14,500 Columbus with 2300 pin weight. We are good to go here with our 3/4 ton.
that's why the first word of my post was "most", not "all"
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Old 09-25-2016, 08:29 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Restcure View Post
Sometimes it's ignorance. I think a lot of the time it's deliberate avoidance or outright lies. Some things I've learned about this lifestyle...
  • Do all your own research on both TV and trailer. THOROUGH research.
  • Don't buy a trailer with a GVWR higher than your fully loaded TV can safely tow.
  • "Dry weight" is borderline meaningless. Actual weight (gotten after taking it to a scale yourself) is key.
  • It's good to have DIY skills. VERY GOOD.

Yep pretty much, that's why I did my homework first because I didn't want them to tell me some lie.
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Old 09-26-2016, 07:39 AM   #66
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The 2500HD duramax I just bought has a 2400 pound payload according to the door sticker. It also advertises a 17000 pound fifth wheel rating. I doubt there's a 5th wheel that weighs that much that has a pin weight that would fit within my 2400 pound limitation. (not even accounting for other passengers and gear in back of truck)

With that said, the only differences between my truck and the same truck in a 3500HD srw is one extra leaf spring on each side of the rear axle, tire size (I have 20" and they aren't available on the 3500HD), and the 3500HD emblems. Everything else is the same.

My 2500HD and a 3500HD configured the same both have a conventional tow rating of 13,000 pounds.
They both also say 17,000 pound 5th wheel rating according to the 2015 chevy trailering guide.

That extra leaf adds a lot of payload though.

So hypothetically I could add the extra leaf and do almost anything I'd plan on doing but it doesn't change the door sticker in cases of liability.
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Old 09-26-2016, 07:41 AM   #67
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And

my salesman also said "you can pull anything you want with that truck"

and he wasn't intentionally misleading me, we've been friends for 40 years.

And he's partially right, I can pull anything a single rear wheel hd can pull.

But am I doing it legally?
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Old 09-26-2016, 07:47 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by SailorSam20500 View Post
I think this info is a little bit off. The following is from the FR brochure for 2016:

Specification Definitions
GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) - is the maximum permissible weight of the unit when fully loaded. It includes all weights, inclusive of all fluids, cargo, optional equipment and accessories. For safety and product performance do NOT exceed the GVWR.


GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) - is the maximum permissible weight, including cargo, fluids, optional equipment and accessories that can be safely supported by a combination of all axles.


UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight)* - is the typical weight of the unit as manufactured at the factory. It includes all weight at the unit’s axle(s) and tongue or pin and LP Gas. The UVW does not include cargo, fresh potable water, additional optional equipment or dealer installed accessories.
*Estimated average based on standard build optional equipment.

CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity)** - is the amount of weight available for fresh potable water, cargo, additional optional equipment and accessories. CCC is equal to GVWR minus UVW. Available CCC should accommodate fresh potable water (8.3 lbs per gallon). Before filling the fresh water tank, empty the black and gray tanks to provide for more cargo capacity.
** Estimated average based on standard build optional equipment

Each Forest River RV is weighed at the manufacturing facility prior to shipping. A label identifying the unloaded vehicle weight of the actual unit and the cargo carrying capacity is applied to every Forest River RV prior to leaving our facilities.

Personally, after reading a number of posts on this and several other forums, I decided that my consideration would be based on using 15% of the GVWR as my tongue weight . Used that against my TV yellow sticker PW to make sure I would be OK.
I think you are confused about the YELLOW STICKER weights versus brochure weights. I'm not an expert, but I THINK your emphasized phrase is talking about the BROCHURE UVW, not the YELLOW STICKER UVW. The UVW on the yellow sticker should be the actual weight of your rig as built. I know all of mine have deviated from brochure UVW, and they shouldn't if that number is calculated as you suggest.
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Old 09-26-2016, 07:52 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by KingFisher View Post
And

my salesman also said "you can pull anything you want with that truck"

and he wasn't intentionally misleading me, we've been friends for 40 years.

And he's partially right, I can pull anything a single rear wheel hd can pull.

But am I doing it legally?
Huh oh. You've gone and done it now. Camp A uses logic and points out that the 2500 and 3500 SRW (for Ford and GM, anyway- I think Ram may now be different) are identical except for a helper spring (easily added- actually is on my F250 with camper package). Camp B says it doesn't matter because you are NOT a safe person if you don't adhere to the sticker on the door jamb. The posts then nose dive into doomsday type scenarios about insurance denying coverage to federal prison time for offenders.
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Old 09-26-2016, 08:07 AM   #70
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Huh oh. You've gone and done it now. Camp A uses logic and points out that the 2500 and 3500 SRW (for Ford and GM, anyway- I think Ram may now be different) are identical except for a helper spring (easily added- actually is on my F250 with camper package). Camp B says it doesn't matter because you are NOT a safe person if you don't adhere to the sticker on the door jamb. The posts then nose dive into doomsday type scenarios about insurance denying coverage to federal prison time for offenders.
Not just here either. I read some posts about the same thing on the Duramax forum yesterday. People were ready to choke one another.

A large segment of the 5th wheels in the campground I'm staying at are pulled by 1/2 tons, right at or way over their payload.

"But it's a Hemi!!!"
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Old 09-26-2016, 08:08 AM   #71
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It's true
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Old 09-26-2016, 08:35 AM   #72
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It's true
That car was a death trap BEFORE hooking up the trailer!
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Old 09-26-2016, 09:33 AM   #73
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Not just here either. I read some posts about the same thing on the Duramax forum yesterday. People were ready to choke one another.

A large segment of the 5th wheels in the campground I'm staying at are pulled by 1/2 tons, right at or way over their payload.

"But it's a Hemi!!!"

A lot of the 3/4 ton trucks pulling 5ers are at or over payload as well ~ some 1 tons too.

"But it's a diesel!!!"
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Old 09-26-2016, 06:35 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by MarkyB View Post
I was at the Ford dealer looking to trade my 150 for a Super Duty.
They had two 250 Lariats side by side virtually identical except for one thing.
One was diesel and one gas.
Cargo rating 2700 for gas vs 2000 for diesel.
Since the 150's cargo was 1600, I couldn't justify getting a diesel 250.
Just an explanation for greatly variable cargo ratings.
the diesels wight a lot and that drops the cargo cap . my 3/4 has a cargo of 3260. you could get the 250 work truck with a diesel and it will have larger cap . the150 is only good for the very smallest of TT's .lol
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Old 09-26-2016, 07:09 PM   #75
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My entry-level 2011 Ram 2500 ST (stock) CC w/5.7 Hemi has a payload of 3,000 but a GCVW of only 15,000... Fully packed for big trips we're very close to GCVW but about 500 under payload. We've traveled throughout the Smoky Mountains with plenty of extra power & without the tranny overheating so I feel our TV & TT is a good match. Also, upgrading from stock/crappy brake controller to a P3 has given us a HUGE safety margin.

IMO HD trucks are better suited to "work" at full capacity day-in and day-out vs. 1/2 tons. For a number of years I helped to maintain a fleet of 1/2, 3/4 & 1 ton trucks for construction & utility companies. We burned through brakes & transmissions on most of our 1/2 tons whereas the bigger trucks lasted & lasted. The gas engines cost a lot less to buy & maintain, so the 3/4 ton gassers gave us the most bang/buck...
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Old 09-26-2016, 07:30 PM   #76
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Find a good hitch shop, best a locally owned place not a chain. Go there before you buy anything. These guys will probably know more about towing than anybody - here there or anywhere. Tell them what you want to do and they will give you an education,
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Old 09-28-2016, 11:07 AM   #77
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When I first started looking at TTers. I stopped at one place and the first thing he asked "What are you using to tow?".

Cool. This guy might actually care.

I told him I was going to be using my 04 sport trac. I said everything, me the wife and all our crap WITH the trailer can't be over 5500lbs.

He takes notes on every word I just said.

For the next 20 minutes he drags me thought the lot looking at the GVW on every TT he had. And finding me all the ones that were AT 5000 to 5500 sitting on the lot. After the 4th one I was like

Me: "Dude, thats my max. If I hook up to that, I would have to simply look at it. Just by getting in the truck I would be over loaded.".


Salesguy: "oh...I thought you said 5500 was your max?"

Me: "Yeah, I did. Max, with us and our stuff. See ya later man."
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Old 09-28-2016, 11:26 AM   #78
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It's true
First time I've seen a coffin with wheels !!
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Old 09-29-2016, 02:57 PM   #79
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You can pull anything on this lot with that F250.

Looking at new F250 2017 last night. Click image for larger version

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This is a Lariat, GAS,
Crew equipped. Not bad at all.
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Old 09-29-2016, 03:09 PM   #80
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If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball!!!!
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