You can pull anything on this lot with that F250.

[325BH]

Originally Posted by B and B

Hmmm. Mine has 2700 lbs with the Camper Package. We plan on a 14,500 Columbus with 2300 pin weight. We are good to go here with our 3/4 ton.

2,300 lbs is only 16% of 14,500. 25% is a much more realistic figure. For 14,500, you are looking at 3,600 lbs of pin weight.

[wbduckman]

Please excuse me for coming in here so late, but this is one subject/situation cannot pass up.

My Wife & I are the Victims of this charade/scam also just recently. I call it that because that is exactly what it is. Sales people from the RV & Auto industries that fall under Three categories.
1. I'm new so I don't know.
2. I'm fully aware you will be over loaded but I'm not saying anything to you.
3. I purposely did not familiarize myself with Weight/capacities so I do not have to take responsibility.

I now have a Brand New 2016 Ford F-250 Powerstroke that I cannot use thanks to the Total Incompetent folks at Ford.
I too was told "you can tow that 5th Wheel w/ No problem!!!
Their right, I can tow it. Towing is not the issue. Payload is. The Truck does not have the Payload capacity needed to set a 2400 lb 5th wheel into.
I went all the way to Ford's Corporate Headquarters and was not able to speak with anyone that was familiar with Payload capacity. I had to stand in the middle of a Ford Dealership and explain to Salesman & Sales Management about Load Ratings???

Trust me, do your own research. These to Industries could care less about your safety or your family in the name of making a sale.

[CaptnJohn]

When it comes to pin weight Recent floor plan changes have made the possibility of things being different than the old norm. In the past a front kitchen was unheard of. Now, especially with residential appliances, the PW can be higher than most of similar length in the past. It was posted a front living room owner had a light PW and was able to make unusual pw adjustments because much of the storage is in the rear. My 60 gallon FW tank is at the rear and a full tank can reduce PW more than I thought possible. My rear living/front bedroom pw will normally be 12% - 15%.

[grhodes50]

Originally Posted by B and B

Hmmm. Mine has 2700 lbs with the Camper Package. We plan on a 14,500 Columbus with 2300 pin weight. We are good to go here with our 3/4 ton.

My 2012 F-250 has a GVWR of 10,000. The 2012 Towing guide states a payload of 3,290 lbs. The yellow sticker on my driver's door jam states the cargo capacity at 2,063 lbs.
When I weighed the truck with 3/4 tank of gas, 150 lbs of gear, the fifth wheel hitch and me, it weighed 7,960 lbs. That leaves 2,040 lbs for payload.
Maybe if I had the camper package it would be more.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by jkoenig24

Better to buy your trailer first and then, shop for a tow vehicle that will give you a generous safety margin. If a salesman's lips are moving, you're probably being lied to.


whatsnew | Heavy Haulers RV Resource Guide

Agree somewhat.
Pick the model of trailer you want, THEN find a tow vehicle capable of towing it comfortably.
I wouldn't buy the trailer until you had the appropriate tow vehicle first.

[MartyQ]

Originally Posted by B and B

Hmmm. Mine has 2700 lbs with the Camper Package. We plan on a 14,500 Columbus with 2300 pin weight. We are good to go here with our 3/4 ton.

Is the 2300 lb pin weight a CAT scale number or one from the brochure? I agree with a previous post. A 16% pin weight is on the low end of what is considered acceptable or expected with the trailer loaded (stuff in the forward compartments and under the bed). The experts say acceptable is (15-25%).

My (trailer loaded) CAT scale pin weight is 20%.

[Jugadorone]

I was so close to making the mistake and think that I could tow anything. "I just bought a Brand New Ford F250 Diesel" I'm Super Truck!. Then i got lucky and stumbled upon some good information before we bought our Wildwood. Or I would probably be trying to tow a battleship down the road.

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by wbduckman

Please excuse me for coming in here so late, but this is one subject/situation cannot pass up.

My Wife & I are the Victims of this charade/scam also just recently. I call it that because that is exactly what it is. Sales people from the RV & Auto industries that fall under Three categories.
1. I'm new so I don't know.
2. I'm fully aware you will be over loaded but I'm not saying anything to you.
3. I purposely did not familiarize myself with Weight/capacities so I do not have to take responsibility.

I now have a Brand New 2016 Ford F-250 Powerstroke that I cannot use thanks to the Total Incompetent folks at Ford.
I too was told "you can tow that 5th Wheel w/ No problem!!!
Their right, I can tow it. Towing is not the issue. Payload is. The Truck does not have the Payload capacity needed to set a 2400 lb 5th wheel into.
I went all the way to Ford's Corporate Headquarters and was not able to speak with anyone that was familiar with Payload capacity. I had to stand in the middle of a Ford Dealership and explain to Salesman & Sales Management about Load Ratings???

Trust me, do your own research. These to Industries could care less about your safety or your family in the name of making a sale.

I did almost the same thing almost on purpose. I bought a new F250 diesel to tow the camper we had. It was well under spec until ~~ my wife found the 5er WE had to have. The F250 was 6 months and 8 days old with 18,912 miles when traded on a new F350 to pull the 5er WE had to have. Fortunately, I only lost $2870 from truck to truck but there was also a little tax and registration fees too.
A couple salesmen were talking and did not understand why I was trading. I told them the F250 did not have the capability. One said he had been selling trucks for almost 40 years and the F250 could pull nearly every 5th wheel made. He went as far as suggesting keeping the F250. I then suggested if I did would he assume responsibility of early equipment failure and anything for pulling illegally. I saw the sales mgr that I deal with smiling out of the corner of my eye. I started to nicely educate these two when the sales mgr asked me to wait as he had a new guy that needed to hear this as well. Not one of 3 had a clue about the 'yellow sticker'. The only reason the sales mgr could smile is we had that same discussion in the past.
My neighbor is a retired vehicle salesman at a GM dealership. He had no clue either. He shook his head and said he wondered how many vehicles he sold that were not up to the stated task.
If a customer comes in and states he wants a 2500/250 we cannot blame anyone but the customer. If one comes in and states he needs a truck to tow anything the salesman should ask what they are going to tow.
I have a hard time blaming sales people. I put the blame on corporate, not even the dealership. There is also some blame at the RV dealerships as many there do not know. We cannot put all the blame on others as the consumer should know what they need and research so as not to rely on 1 or 2 salespeople for their safety.

[SailorSam20500]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

The yellow sticker UVW is the weight of the rig as it sits. This number deviates from the brochure weights because of the options a particular rig has. So, yes, that number does include the fridge, AC, propane tanks (empty), etc. Most people add 1K to this number for a general idea of what they'll weigh stocked and ready to camp- this is if not hauling water. If hauling water add that as well. Of course, this is just a general rule, as some people take everything out of their house and load it in the camper (us) while others take a change of clothes and hit the road.

I think this info is a little bit off. The following is from the FR brochure for 2016:

Specification Definitions
GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) - is the maximum permissible weight of the unit when fully loaded. It includes all weights, inclusive of all fluids, cargo, optional equipment and accessories. For safety and product performance do NOT exceed the GVWR.

GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) - is the maximum permissible weight, including cargo, fluids, optional equipment and accessories that can be safely supported by a combination of all axles.

UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight)* - is the typical weight of the unit as manufactured at the factory. It includes all weight at the unit’s axle(s) and tongue or pin and LP Gas. The UVW does not include cargo, fresh potable water, additional optional equipment or dealer installed accessories.
*Estimated average based on standard build optional equipment.

CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity)** - is the amount of weight available for fresh potable water, cargo, additional optional equipment and accessories. CCC is equal to GVWR minus UVW. Available CCC should accommodate fresh potable water (8.3 lbs per gallon). Before filling the fresh water tank, empty the black and gray tanks to provide for more cargo capacity.
** Estimated average based on standard build optional equipment

Each Forest River RV is weighed at the manufacturing facility prior to shipping. A label identifying the unloaded vehicle weight of the actual unit and the cargo carrying capacity is applied to every Forest River RV prior to leaving our facilities.

Personally, after reading a number of posts on this and several other forums, I decided that my consideration would be based on using 15% of the GVWR as my tongue weight . Used that against my TV yellow sticker PW to make sure I would be OK.

[Gary A]

Originally Posted by ToniandSal

A little off topic, but chiming in about RV salesmen...when we were filling out the paperwork on our new FR Class C, I firmly stated that it must be contingent on the thing fitting on our driveway without overhanging onto the sidewalk. I had it written in the contract with the sales manager initialing. Then he says to me, if it doesn't fit, just have your house eave cut back to make it fit. I just stared with my jaw dropped. Uh NO! They sent a guy with one just like ours to try it on the driveway. Yes, it fit to the inch. I gave the verbal OK, and he called them right there.

I had the same issue - it had to fit on the driveway and the measurements in the specs can't be trusted. We took a tape measure and a plumb bob RV shopping with us and got it exactly right.

[grhodes50]

Originally Posted by SailorSam20500

............Personally, after reading a number of posts on this and several other forums, I decided that my consideration would be based on using 15% of the GVWR as my tongue weight . Used that against my TV yellow sticker PW to make sure I would be OK.

I did something similar to this, but it didn't work out.

I know you can't trust the brochure weights, but since you can't load the trailer and weigh it before you purchase I did the math on the listed pin weight and the listed dry weight. It worked out to a little under 20%, so I applied that to the listed GVWR for the trailer hoping that would be close to the loaded trailer's pin weight.

After purchasing the trailer I loaded up and stopped at the CAT scales on our first trip out. After doing the math on the CAT scale weights I found that my pin weight is a little under 25%.

I believe the increase in the pin weight percentage has to do with the trailer's floorplan, rear living. There is not much storage located behind the trailer's axles and it's mostly overhead storage, so light weight items. Then when you consider the weight of what is usually placed in the cargo bay and the front compartment.....lawn chairs, ladder, tools, etc... I can understand the increase in the pin weight percentage.

Just something I never thought about.

[ToniandSal]

Originally Posted by Gary A

I had the same issue - it had to fit on the driveway and the measurements in the specs can't be trusted. We took a tape measure and a plumb bob RV shopping with us and got it exactly right.

We took a tape measure with us to the RV show to shop also! We got a few looks from people watching us measure the lengths of motorhomes!

[northstar1960]

can't blame the dealer for the fact that buyers want to buy into their BS . in the end you're all responsible for what you buy and tow . if you don't know then you should find out before you buy . ignorance is not an excuse and blaming others for what you don't know doesn't fly

[Iwannacamp]

Originally Posted by northstar1960

can't blame the dealer for the fact that buyers want to buy into their BS . in the end you're all responsible for what you buy and tow . if you don't know then you should find out before you buy . ignorance is not an excuse and blaming others for what you don't know doesn't fly

I think the basic posting is about people knowing some about the RV world and the crap they get in the sales pitch. As I stated earlier...I don't the think the salesman knew what to tell me. He seemed sincere in his thinking. He may have only been there a short time. He said a 15+k 5er would only have 1500 pin...then I called a bull crap.


Sent from my iPhone using Forest River Forums

[northstar1960]

Originally Posted by Iwannacamp

I think the basic posting is about people knowing some about the RV world and the crap they get in the sales pitch. As I stated earlier...I don't the think the salesman knew what to tell me. He seemed sincere in his thinking. He may have only been there a short time. He said a 15+k 5er would only have 1500 pin...then I called a bull crap.


Sent from my iPhone using Forest River Forums

sure it's bull but happens in just about any sales position. autos, rv, motorcycles, furniture you name it . as the saying goes buyer beware. with the internet now people can be very informed buyers . if you get a rv and find you don't have enough truck even after the sales guy told you you did then it's stills falls back on the buyer

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by davel1971

most 3/4 ton trucks barely have over 2000 worth of payload rating. By the time you add the 5th wheel hitch, family in the cab, random stuff in bed, you have 1000 lbs left for the pin weight of the 5th wheel.

Really, only 2000 lbs? Don't tell Chevy!

[jtownstumpjumper]

Originally Posted by grhodes50

I did something similar to this, but it didn't work out.

I know you can't trust the brochure weights, but since you can't load the trailer and weigh it before you purchase I did the math on the listed pin weight and the listed dry weight. It worked out to a little under 20%, so I applied that to the listed GVWR for the trailer hoping that would be close to the loaded trailer's pin weight.

After purchasing the trailer I loaded up and stopped at the CAT scales on our first trip out. After doing the math on the CAT scale weights I found that my pin weight is a little under 25%.

I believe the increase in the pin weight percentage has to do with the trailer's floorplan, rear living. There is not much storage located behind the trailer's axles and it's mostly overhead storage, so light weight items. Then when you consider the weight of what is usually placed in the cargo bay and the front compartment.....lawn chairs, ladder, tools, etc... I can understand the increase in the pin weight percentage.

Just something I never thought about.

And don't forget those washer/dryer combos that sit up in the front closets in the front cap. DW had one of those installed before our 5er ever left the lot...will admit it's been a great add-on for us to have...... don't know how much weight that added but it sits right on top of the pin box.

[CaptnJohn]

The W/D combo is about 160#. We have the vented. If less than 10 days we bring laundry home. Longer and CG laundry is checked. Small loads only in the combo and takes way too for a load to complete. Happy when there when absolutely needed but happier with alternatives.

[Austintatious]

Earlier this year at an RV Expo a salesperson didn't know the tongue weight of a particular TT we were looking at so he went and got one of their "Towing Technicians" who told me the tongue weight was around 450 pounds because this trailer weighed in at around 4000 pounds.

I said thank you but that's higher than the rating of the tow vehicle I had at the time (the Jeep). He asked me what the rating was and I told him tongue weight limit was 350 pounds and towing capacity was 3500 pounds.

"No problem" he said. "Just put a weight distributing hitch on it and that will double both your tongue weight and towing capacity. So you'd be able to tow 7,000 pounds with a 700 pound tongue weight. Because it doubles the capacity, see?"

[Wobbles]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

Really, only 2000 lbs? Don't tell Chevy!

Don't tell Ford...