2012 Thunderbolt frame issue

[AquaMan]

Originally Posted by WolfWhistle

A-man, if this was a Toyota Camry, I bet the line would be recalled. The entire line of this model should be recalled IMO in case I wasn't clear.

Has anyone found the PDF from FR on how the repair should be accomplished? Its only 2 pages. WW

I have Toyota as a customer, believe me they are not perfect!! So what you're telling me is, if one person complained about their Toyota Camry having a flaw in (your choice), they would recall the entire line? Because that is the example that is set here, one XLR model (as we have no other proof of another like model with a crack).


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[18CrewDually]

Originally Posted by AquaMan

I have Toyota as a customer, believe me they are not perfect!! So what you're telling me is, if one person complained about their Toyota Camry having a flaw in (your choice), they would recall the entire line? Because that is the example that is set here, one XLR model (as we have no other proof of another like model with a crack).


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The point is it's not one person. It's not even one line. It's multiple coaches, more than we all know. My frame is a Wildcat. The common denominator is the cheesy poor quality, too thin of material being used by Lippert.

Until it happens to you, and you see how these failures occur, and how easily it could of been avoided if they used the quality material at the correct gauge, you may never understand.

[AquaMan]

Originally Posted by 05CrewDually

The point is it's not one person. It's not even one line. It's multiple coaches, more than we all know. My frame is a Wildcat. The common denominator is the cheesy poor quality, too thin of material being used by Lippert.

Until it happens to you, and you see how these failures occur, and how easily it could of been avoided if they used the quality material at the correct gauge, you may never understand.

On the contrary, I do understand, and I would hope that Lippert/FR will stand behind their product. But, it's not a widespread problem that affects thousands or even hundreds of units. You state that this happens "more than we all know", same argument can be made that it only happens to those we do know(proof). You also must take into consideration the age of a unit. An RV that is 9yrs old can't be grouped in with one that is 2yrs old. You must also consider if the frame cracks are due to misuse. We have seen that on here, a new unit with a severely bent frame due to double towing a golf cart. Everyone was up in arms screaming for justice, UNTIL the facts came out. My point is still as I stated in the my first post. One or 2 cases per line(and this is what we KNOW) is not cause for widespread panic and/or condemnation of the entire line and manufacturer.

[WolfWhistle]

Exactly! One case of a rattle or squeak they should buy them all back. As for our XLRs, what's a few broken frames due to bare minimum material and engineering, like someone said, until its your 2 to 4 year old rig that falls apart you won't understand. You can't.

[AquaMan]

Originally Posted by WolfWhistle

Exactly! One case of a rattle or squeak they should buy them all back.

You've picked the wrong lifestyle! Good luck.


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[ornewbees2014]

Read through this and a couple items come to mind. I no longer own a FR product, not because I didn't like it but was ready to move to a 5er and didn't find one that we really wanted in FR. I bought an open range.

After buying new and having for 6 months I discovered this:


After reading open range forum there is a whole bunch of this that look just like mine. Long story short it took a week and it was fixed. Question becomes is it fixed for good... Not sure I am no metallurgist or structural engineer. The common problem isn't forest river, open range, keystone or whatever.. It is and always has been lippert, there is not 1 thing they make that is of substantial quality consistently. 2 new units in 5 years and most likely will buy again in a couple years. But I have gotten a touch wiser. For safety and overall quality sake I will ask more questions on my next trailer and if I can find a unit with limited lippert parts with the right layout and it costs 10% more that may be the unit for me.

[18CrewDually]

Originally Posted by ornewbees2014

Read through this and a couple items come to mind. I no longer own a FR product, not because I didn't like it but was ready to move to a 5er and didn't find one that we really wanted in FR. I bought an open range.Attachment 88421

After buying new and having for 6 months I discovered this:
Attachment 88422

After reading open range forum there is a whole bunch of this that look just like mine. Long story short it took a week and it was fixed. Question becomes is it fixed for good... Not sure I am no metallurgist or structural engineer. The common problem isn't forest river, open range, keystone or whatever.. It is and always has been lippert, there is not 1 thing they make that is of substantial quality consistently. 2 new units in 5 years and most likely will buy again in a couple years. But I have gotten a touch wiser. For safety and overall quality sake I will ask more questions on my next trailer and if I can find a unit with limited lippert parts with the right layout and it costs 10% more that may be the unit for me.

Right on!

[WolfWhistle]

Originally Posted by AquaMan

You've picked the wrong lifestyle! Good luck.


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Hyperbole: exaggerated speech used for emphasis or effect.

I should point out for those that can't figure it out, the following is not hyperbole: Lippert is to blame for these substandard frames and these failures. FR is to ultimately to blame for not holding them to a higher standard and as the final assembler should fix these frames without regard for warranty period. How do we know ours is bad, the factory should look, but if they are unwilling we should. We are stupid for buying them before researching the problems. The problem is Lippert builds darn near all frames. We as consumers have demand bigger and lighter product and they have supplied us with flimsy junk. End of rant! MORE COFFEE!

05CD, right on, brother!
WW

[18CrewDually]

Originally Posted by WolfWhistle

Hyperbole: exaggerated speech used for emphasis or effect.

I should point out for those that can't figure it out, the following is not hyperbole: Lippert is to blame for these substandard frames and these failures. FR is to ultimately to blame for not holding them to a higher standard and as the final assembler should fix these frames without regard for warranty period. How do we know ours is bad, the factory should look, but if they are unwilling we should. We are stupid for buying them before researching the problems. The problem is Lippert builds darn near all frames. We as consumers have demand bigger and lighter product and they have supplied us with flimsy junk. End of rant! MORE COFFEE!

05CD, right on, brother!
WW

Wait a minute, Are you a roofer? Because you nailed it! :thumbup:

[036.6turbo]

I wonder sometimes, as we demand better consumer rights, if "we" as consumers are part of the problem?

I mean "we" want bigger nicer rigs, with multiple television and residential refrigerators. But we want to pull them with 1/2 ton Fords, with V6 motors?

In order to make that happen, weight is cut wherever possible. Now, we begin to see weak thin steel used in areas where it shouldn't be?

I could be way off base, just a thought.

Not to minimize what you guys are going through. I'd be pissed too.

Hopefully the manufacturers stand up and do the right thing.

[northstar1960]

Originally Posted by 036.6turbo

I wonder sometimes, as we demand better consumer rights, if "we" as consumers are part of the problem?

I mean "we" want bigger nicer rigs, with multiple television and residential refrigerators. But we want to pull them with 1/2 ton Fords, with V6 motors?

In order to make that happen, weight is cut wherever possible. Now, we begin to see weak thin steel used in areas where it shouldn't be?

I could be way off base, just a thought.

Not to minimize what you guys are going through. I'd be pissed too.

Hopefully the manufacturers stand up and do the right thing.

I think it's more like the manufactures wanting to expand their market share and accommodate the 1/2 ton market . if they were concerned about the consumer they would build more quality into the units . consumers demands are rarely met .

[dbarr]

*update* I realize I posted on this thread with a coachmen but the shoddy equipment still came from the same supplier. Anyway, I dropped the TT off at a weld shop middle of last week and contacted my long distant dealer with my troubles. At just shy of 2 years and no extended warranty I was instructed to send pics and repair quote which I did. Dealer says they still have no word on this from coachmen but to go ahead with the repairs and they will cover with expectations of reimbursement from lippert

As far as the damage, it's not as bad as it looks and I don't believe anyone was in any danger. Inconvenient YES! Could it have been worse YES! I could've found it on a trip.
As far as repairs goes this is a very simple repair.

As for the rest of you, keep your frames painted and inspect for rust lines (cracks). The cracks are much more noticeable if your paint looks nice.

[MightyMike]

Originally Posted by dbarr

After finding a rear spring hanger ripped away from the frame I found 4 more cracks in the frame just like yours. Going to the weld shop tomorrow.

Please contact me (PM if you like) and I will give you all the info I have to contact NHTSB. I have already submitted a detailed description, and need people with the same issue to submit it to them so there is an investigation. Just one (as in ME) doesn't do a whole lot, but if we can document more of the same issue we may be able to get them to be accountable.

[MightyMike]

Originally Posted by AquaMan

Suppose, you come up with a hundred different scenarios on the web, of individuals with a cracked frame. I'm not sure of the current number of RVs out there, but in 2011 there were an estimated 8.9 million residents in the US with RVs. I'm quite certain that number has grown considerably. Doubt they will make a recall. I'm not saying they shouldn't look at the issue, I'm just being realistic. As for the OP, I wouldn't bother waiting on Lippert or FR as to finding a correct procedure to repair it. I would take it to a frame shop and just have them repair it. I'm sure they will over engineer a fix, and it's not like you have a warranty you have to worry about voiding.

Actually, A-man my contacting Lippert turned out to be a big joke, to me anyway. They truly jerk you around, from simply trying to contact them by phone to the final straw of having them send me a document stating I would not share their repair procedure with anyone other than the fixing dealer and having to sign and submit it back before they would send me anything. If it wasn't that this thing cost so much to begin with their response would be laughable.

[dbarr]

Originally Posted by MightyMike

Actually, A-man my contacting Lippert turned out to be a big joke, to me anyway. They truly jerk you around, from simply trying to contact them by phone to the final straw of having them send me a document stating I would not share their repair procedure with anyone other than the fixing dealer and having to sign and submit it back before they would send me anything. If it wasn't that this thing cost so much to begin with their response would be laughable.

so...they suddenly become experts in the frame building business and you're not to share their secrets.

I would like to see Lippert go belly up.

[dbarr]

Originally Posted by MightyMike

Please contact me (PM if you like) and I will give you all the info I have to contact NHTSB. I have already submitted a detailed description, and need people with the same issue to submit it to them so there is an investigation. Just one (as in ME) doesn't do a whole lot, but if we can document more of the same issue we may be able to get them to be accountable.

Post it! We're not the only ones just the observant ones.

[18CrewDually]

Originally Posted by dbarr

so...they suddenly become experts in the frame building business and you're not to share their secrets.

I would like to see Lippert go belly up.

Exactly was my feeling. They should of done it right the first time.

[MightyMike]

So, I finally dropped the underbelly cover today. Think I found the reason for the crack- A crossmember welded in that location. Crack originates right where the angle iron is welded to frame.

Well, don't know what happened there but the pics are all upside down and I can't find an edit anywhere. Not exactly sure what the cross member does other than protect the rear grey tank. There is nothing attached to it and no straps under the tank.

[egladden]

So I wonder did they over heat the frame when welding and made that section brittle or shot a hole in it when welding?


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[dbarr]

Originally Posted by MightyMike

So, I finally dropped the underbelly cover today. Think I found the reason for the crack- A crossmember welded in that location. Crack originates right where the angle iron is welded to frame.

Well, don't know what happened there but the pics are all upside down and I can't find an edit anywhere. Not exactly sure what the cross member does other than protect the rear grey tank. There is nothing attached to it and no straps under the tank.

Keeps your frame rails vertical.

Same as mine are on both sides of the cross members between the axles and the one just forward of the front springs.

It cracked on mine because it's only 1/8 plate. The top overlaps the top of the frame and is secured...just the bottom butt welds are the problem.