29HFS Owners experience needed

[GDavidHughes]

Hello all,
I am very close to buying the 29HFS and have been digging around to be absolutely sure it is the right unit for us. I have been reading and learning a lot on this site. One question I have seen asked, on this form and others but never really answered, is the question of garage weight to tongue weight ratio. So, I thought the folks who actually own this exact model should know best. I am going to max out the garage weight at 2000lbs so before I can buy it, I need to have a really good idea of how much tongue weight I will loose.

So, not everyone puts that much in their garage but, if you haul one full blow Harley touring or a Goldwing and know how much it changes the tongue weight, that will be a great help. Thanks in advance.

[Taranwanderer]

I think the general rule of thumb is that for every 2.5# in the garage, you lose 1# of tongue weight. Obviously that depends on some specific measurements on your trailer, but it's a start.

[GDavidHughes]

I have seen that ratio before. If it is correct, that's 800 lbs from the tongue weight when I put 2000 in the garage. I just need to know if that's true for this trailer. Hoping someone who owns one has actually put it on the scales.

[R3Jones]

It really depends on where your wheels are in relationship to the trailer. If the wheels are 10' from the back (20' from the front) then you'll lose 1lb on the tongue for every 2lbs added at the very end of the trailer. In actual you don't put the weight at the very end of the trailer so the tongue weight loss will be a little less than 1lb.

[GDavidHughes]

Originally Posted by R3Jones

It really depends on where your wheels are in relationship to the trailer. If the wheels are 10' from the back (20' from the front) then you'll lose 1lb on the tongue for every 2lbs added at the very end of the trailer. In actual you don't put the weight at the very end of the trailer so the tongue weight loss will be a little less than 1lb.

That is exactly why I asked this quest of owners of this exact trailer. There are a lot of calculations which a good engineer could do concerning fulcrum effect of two axles but, spring tension, axle (fulcrum) placement, lever length, other weights on each side of the fulcrum, etc, etc, etc.

Easier to just put a load in the back and measure the difference.

[RVBikers]

I just bought a Sherline tongue scale for that reason, with the varied ways I will have my 27HFS loaded (with 2 Harleys, or just one, or none and kids bicycles, one bike and a quad, empty garage, with water, without water, etc. etc.) I can easily check the weight myself and adjust accordingly. I found a good deal on discount Sherline lathe mill and Tools - discountcampus.com for $106 ($120 including shipping) so I think its a great investment.

[GDavidHughes]

Originally Posted by RVBikers

I just bought a Sherline tongue scale for that reason, with the varied ways I will have my 27HFS loaded (with 2 Harleys, or just one, or none and kids bicycles, one bike and a quad, empty garage, with water, without water, etc. etc.) I can easily check the weight myself and adjust accordingly. I found a good deal on discount Sherline lathe mill and Tools - discountcampus.com for $106 ($120 including shipping) so I think its a great investment.

Good for you.

[northstar1960]

Originally Posted by GDavidHughes

Good for you.

The trailers are front heavy (tw) because of loading cargo in the garage . one reason the axles are set back further , don't know what your loading I'll have about 1700 lbs in my garage with another 1000 loaded in gear through out ie water , generator , food , clothes , tools , plus gas it all adds up quick. just remember to stow heavier gear fwd and you should be fine

[GDavidHughes]

Originally Posted by northstar1960

The trailers are front heavy (tw) because of loading cargo in the garage . one reason the axles are set back further , don't know what your loading I'll have about 1700 lbs in my garage with another 1000 loaded in gear through out ie water , generator , food , clothes , tools , plus gas it all adds up quick. just remember to stow heavier gear fwd and you should be fine

Your absolutely right. XLR has done a good job recognizing the need to start with slightly more tongue weight than some others just for this reason.
What I don't want is to buy the thing and then discover that the only way to make it tow well is to add water weight to it. It is already going to be pretty darn heavy. I just want to be confident BEFORE I make the purchase.

What I really think is that when I put 2000lbs in the garage and close to 1000lbs in front of the axles, I may have a net -400lbs tongue weight. That leaves only 600lbs. Which is not nearly enough. Plus, I'm going to add an WD anti-sway hitch. That thing is going to remove more tongue weight. Now what?

[northstar1960]

Originally Posted by GDavidHughes

Your absolutely right. XLR has done a good job recognizing the need to start with slightly more tongue weight than some others just for this reason.
What I don't want is to buy the thing and then discover that the only way to make it tow well is to add water weight to it. It is already going to be pretty darn heavy. I just want to be confident BEFORE I make the purchase.

What I really think is that when I put 2000lbs in the garage and close to 1000lbs in front of the axles, I may have a net -400lbs tongue weight. That leaves only 600lbs. Which is not nearly enough. Plus, I'm going to add an WD anti-sway hitch. That thing is going to remove more tongue weight. Now what?

ok stock dry weight is 974 TW . add 2000 lbs in cargo should still leave you with about 487 TW .it is important to not carry the full load on the rear axle , then add your other gear and i would think you'd be fine . as far as WD hitches what do you plan on using ? Whats your TV ? I just bought the 29 , have not even picked up yet . I have a chevy 2500HD set up for towing 4:10 and the 6.o gasser .I've decided to go with the Andersen WD hitch only weights 60 lbs no bar's or grease , i hear it does extremly well for no sway no bounce and good on WD . With this hitch you won't have to worry about 1000lbs bars and a hitch that weighs 200lbs . you can adjust the WD portion of the andersen lighter

[GDavidHughes]

Originally Posted by northstar1960

ok stock dry weight is 974 TW . add 2000 lbs in cargo should still leave you with about 487 TW .it is important to not carry the full load on the rear axle , then add your other gear and i would think you'd be fine . as far as WD hitches what do you plan on using ? Whats your TV ? I just bought the 29 , have not even picked up yet . I have a chevy 2500HD set up for towing 4:10 and the 6.o gasser .I've decided to go with the Andersen WD hitch only weights 60 lbs no bar's or grease , i hear it does extremly well for no sway no bounce and good on WD . With this hitch you won't have to worry about 1000lbs bars and a hitch that weighs 200lbs . you can adjust the WD portion of the andersen lighter

Advertised TW for the base model is 1032lbs. That said, for your example, 487 lbs TW is not nearly enough to be safe. NOT NEARLY ENOUGH. Absolute Minimum is 9%
My tow vehicle is a Toyota Tundra 4X4 Limited with tow package. 381HP 404lbft/tq and a 4:30 rear gear. Rated to pull 10,300lbs or 17,400 lbs GCVW. It has a class IV receiver good for 1200lbs tongue weight

[northstar1960]

you have to remember that 487 is only if you have your cargo loaded with nothing else , add propane tanks full ,batteries and gear I think you'll be fine imo . I have gotton severl different weights from the dealer and forest river on TW , ranging from the 974 to what you quoted 1032 . I've gotten cargo from 2700 to over 3000 . not sure which is right . i assume you will carry more then just what you store in the garage ! the under bed storage can carry a lot of gear . if you add a 4000 onan gen that's another 174 . I see no reason you can't keep the tw around 800 or 900 lbs even with the 2000 lbs in the cargo . . but that's just me . i was more worried about the 4400 lbs axles then the TW . of course some have gone up to the 5200 lbs axles from what i have read here

[GDavidHughes]

Originally Posted by northstar1960

you have to remember that 487 is only if you have your cargo loaded with nothing else , add propane tanks full ,batteries and gear I think you'll be fine imo . I have gotton severl different weights from the dealer and forest river on TW , ranging from the 974 to what you quoted 1032 . I've gotten cargo from 2700 to over 3000 . not sure which is right . i assume you will carry more then just what you store in the garage ! the under bed storage can carry a lot of gear . if you add a 4000 onan gen that's another 174 . I see no reason you can't keep the tw around 800 or 900 lbs even with the 2000 lbs in the cargo . . but that's just me . i was more worried about the 4400 lbs axles then the TW . of course some have gone up to the 5200 lbs axles from what i have read here

Beg to differ. Theoretically and using the only math I have seen posted anywhere, putting 2000lbs in the rear reduces TW by 800lbs. Adding 1000 back ahead of the axles, put 400 back.

This is all HEARSAY. I want the real numbers

[northstar1960]

Beg to differ. Theoretically and using the only math I have seen posted anywhere, putting 2000lbs in the rear reduces TW by 800lbs. Adding 1000 back ahead of the axles, put 400 back.

This is all HEARSAY. I want the real numbers

Well if this were the case then nobody can recliam lost tw when loading the garage with their toys . . These units our toy haulers are designed to carry the weight of a couple 900 ++ lbs motorcycles , atv or combos of the same in the rear garage .
So what your saying is the design is flawed and no one should carry anything in the garage over say 1000 lbs ? i'm putting my bike 900++ and my atv 600 ++ and have no concerns what so ever . i am concerned about over loading the entire unit . but not about tw . remember the unit is designed with axles set back quit a bit and weight fwd unloaded . loaded with all the goodies I believe the units are set up to handle this . again which is why the axles are moved way back and so much of the tt is out front of the axles

As it is now dry weight is apox 69XX lbs with a dry tw of any where from 974 to 1032 . if this were a standard tt with a dry weight of 69XX the tw would only be around 550 or 600 . if that . so we are well with in towing specs with 2000 in the garage and the remainder 700 in other goodies loaded weight fwd

[GDavidHughes]

Your exactly right northstar1960. The thing is, Everyone, everywhere quotes the 2.5 to 1 ratio which makes no sense if the engineering is correct. And, if the engineering is wrong, people would be having problems towing, right? So, show me the real numbers. Has no person weighed their trailer?

[northstar1960]

Has no person weighed their trailer?

haha , Haven't even gotten mine yet ! won't be till April before I'm ready to make the drive from Co to OH .
All i have been doing is getting what i need for my truck and trip and reading everything i can find . I've towed plenty of big heavy trailers , but not rv camper toy haulers

[northstar1960]

GD
I do share some of your concerns . I had issues with the axles ratings of 4400. with a dw of 6968 , less any un-sprung weight of axles /tires etc say 700 /800 gives us total weight loaded 8918. exceeding the weight limit of the axles , However the TV is suposed to pick up some of that weight through TW transfer to the TV so the closer to a 1000 lbs tW the better it would seem .

[WolfWhistle]

GDavidHughes, First thing you have to realize is the number of 29 owners on this forum is few, but growing. I know what my 29 weighed as it left the factory. I would assume the 2015 (early) brochure was correct stating the TW. Until proven wrong, I will trust that it is very close. With so many variables, I frankly don't see how my weight (for instance) helps you. I don't have two goldwings or Ultras to load in the bay and what each of us would carry, especially water changes things drastically. Do we even know that my unit and your's has axles in the exact same placement; no, only the XLR guys would know this. And, I bet they are getting quite a chuckle out of our rambling and 'rithmetic.

That 2.5 to 1 TWR, we all have heard is more like 3.5 to 1 when the weight is placed about 4 feet from the garage / bathroom wall. Such as would be the case with two heavy motorcycles, side by side.... as far forward as possible.

So, its only geometry, dear Watson! But, you got me thinking, measuring and plugging all that into an Excel spreadsheet, which I am decent using. Not the ace, but not too bad. I can send you the spreadsheet if you let me know your email via PM, that is if you have the application.

If not, you can download a free viewer, but the idea is that you change the numbers and play with it to find weights and the important TW ratio.

I have attached three screenshots of the spreadsheet, for what their worth and if you can see them, maybe this will help.

Top one has 2000 in the garage (like two bikes side by side front wheel near the forward wall), 54 gals of water, and a paltry amount of other cargo that will max it out (276#) and has a 7.72% TWR. The middle one with 2000, 20 gals of water and maxed out; 7.71% TWR. The bottom 1500, 54, and maxed out; has 11.71 TWR.

When I put the best estimate of my typical loading, into to the spreadsheet: 1000, 20, all of her "stuff" and I am more than 1000 from being maxed out. The TW ratio is over 14% according to my "guess-tomater." I know when I drop it onto the 2500, the TW is substantial.

Anyone who wants to play with the sheet, let me know how to get it to you.

Another point, I'd like to make is that by plugging in loading in any combination, the 4400# axles and "D" rated tires were never shown to be anywhere near overloaded.

[northstar1960]

Another point, I'd like to make is that by plugging in loading in any combination, the 4400# axles and "D" rated tires were never shown to be anywhere near overloaded.

didn't you up-grade your axles to the 5200# ones ? what was the cost of that ?

[WolfWhistle]

Originally Posted by northstar1960

Another point, I'd like to make is that by plugging in loading in any combination, the 4400# axles and "D" rated tires were never shown to be anywhere near overloaded.

didn't you up-grade your axles to the 5200# ones ? what was the cost of that ?

Cost?, no cost. It was done by FR because some units, like mine, the axles hit the frame under load. And we expected a much higher cargo cap. of 4017#. We only had to ask, and FR didn't question. Officially my unit is still only rated to carry 2724 in cargo. I am sure mine will carry that 4000# in cargo, if I needed it to, but FR isn't saying it will. To do that, it has to have something like the 5500 axles.

It was shown: dry weight 6968, tongue 974, cargo 4017. Gross weight TBD. Math says the GVW would have been 10,985#. That would put 4620# on each axle, but the "D" tires are still under the limit.